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Author Topic: epson P10000 review  (Read 17746 times)

markrause

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epson P10000 review
« on: August 29, 2016, 04:23:34 pm »

Has anyone used the Epson P10000 yet? I can't find any review online. How does it compare to the 9900?

Thanks

Marcelo
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dgberg

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2016, 04:39:10 pm »

Private message Gary from iCanvas. He recently went from a 9900 to the P10000.

iCanvas

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2016, 06:41:29 pm »

I have recently bought a P10000 from Tastar Data here in Pittsburgh and am very pleased with it. I print only on canvas and compared a print from my 9900 and the new P10000. There was hardly any difference. The difference in gamut will not be that apparent on canvas. The blacks were more robust on the P10000. The P10000 is fast, fast, fast. Love it. It cost about twice what a P9000 or P8000 runs for, but I plan on keeping this for many years. When I get a full feel for the printer I will put up a review. For me all the new technology in the P10000 is worth it and the 700ml cartridges are much cheaper than the P8000 and P9000.

Gar
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deanwork

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2016, 06:26:22 pm »

Well that's the thing. The ink cost is going to be a lot less, though you can only buy the big carts, which is fine by me. Also they seem to be clogging a lot less, and require less cleaning cycles and maintenance tanks so you should save a lot there also. There is talk that they redesigned the ink lines, and that may be true with their other large format models out now. Don't know about that.

My supplier says there are a lot of units out there now and they are in big demand, so I doubt we'll see any price breaks on them for some time.

I'm really interested in learning about what is happening with the monochrome output with the extra gray. According to Roy Harrington, it is doubtful that the QTR software is ever going to support these new Epsons because they are so different. But for very precise ink limiting and hue toning control Studio Print does support all the new Epson printers. ABW might work a lot better with this new inkset also. Don't know about that either. Wish someone would do a thorough review of all the aspects.

John






I have recently bought a P10000 from Tastar Data here in Pittsburgh and am very pleased with it. I print only on canvas and compared a print from my 9900 and the new P10000. There was hardly any difference. The difference in gamut will not be that apparent on canvas. The blacks were more robust on the P10000. The P10000 is fast, fast, fast. Love it. It cost about twice what a P9000 or P8000 runs for, but I plan on keeping this for many years. When I get a full feel for the printer I will put up a review. For me all the new technology in the P10000 is worth it and the 700ml cartridges are much cheaper than the P8000 and P9000.

Gar
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BrianWJH

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2016, 07:21:06 pm »

The ink cost is going to be a lot less, though you can only buy the big carts, which is fine by me.
John

That's interesting, as Epson Australia sells the P10000 as the P10070 (looks and specs appear the same to me) and they offer 350ml carts as well.

Brian.
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Farmer

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2016, 09:27:31 pm »

Same printer, yes.
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Phil Brown

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2016, 03:13:33 am »

Anyone tried one of these printers with Piezography yet?
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Royce Howland

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2016, 10:18:32 am »

We have ordered our first P10000 and hope to take delivery in a little over a week. If it works out as well as we hope, we'll move forward with a combination of P10000's and P20000's to take on the core of our colour printing workflow, supplanting our current crop of 11880's. My first task on arrival of the P10K will be to do a bunch of custom profiling and see how the inkset performs on a bunch of our common output media. (It will be awhile before ImagePrint support comes, so we'll make do with other options in the interim, probably Qimage.) I will post some thoughts when I have the time to organize them. :)

Shadowblade, I'm pretty sure nobody has tried Piezography on the P10K / P20K for a variety of reasons. The printers have been shipping only for a very short time. As noted by John above, Roy Harrington has said QuadToneRip may never support these printers because their head architecture is too different to be supported by the QTR driver as it is now. And Jon Cone has said these printers may never support Cone inks, or any other refillable 3rd-party inks, due to Epson's increasingly aggressive proprietary ink cartridge lock-in methods. So don't hold your breath on that front.

This is why I'm really motivated to find a way to get our 11880's going on Piezography. If the new SureColor's can become our colour printing workhorses as intended, then hopefully we can retire our 11880's into our Piezography workflow -- if I can get the latter working (touch wood).
« Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 10:24:25 am by Royce Howland »
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deanwork

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2016, 01:17:14 pm »

If Jon can find a way to get  alternative ink carts and somehow bypass the new Epson high security electronics then piezography would work. Epson has gone a long way this time to keep their system secure and they've had many years to work on it. They thought they did it last time but they didn't.

 As for software, Studio Print is already supporting all the new Epson LF printers and it could certainly drive it for any kind of monochrome set up. Those of us who have it and know how to use it could do it fairly quickly IF the ink security and carts could be hacked without causing some kind of a law suit on hardware copyright infringement.

I don't think that Epson cares much one way or another about Piezography, as it is small potatoes to them, but the third party color inks out there take a huge bite out of their bottom line and they will do anything they can to stop that. That may be one of the reasons they are also lowering their cost of inks in the big carts for production printing companies, that have in the past been using a lot of the 3rd party color inksets.

Studio Print is by far the most sophisticated and adaptable software for monochrome printing as well as printing on difficult alternative media such as fabrics and hand-made papers BUT it is quite expensive and there is certainly a learning curve involved. Also Epson clamped down on Ergosoft very hard many years ago for helping support alternative bw inksets, so you are totally on your own working out a workflow. That wouldn't stop people like me from using it but the significant expense and lack of support from ErgoSoft would stop a lot of people. But who knows, Roy said the last generation of printers were most likely unhackable, but he did it with QTR. But for the foreseeable future the 11880 would make a perfect Piezography printer, or if you can find any 7890s or 9890s left out there they work great too, that's what I'm currently using.

Last time I was at Cone's studio he had a new Canon 8300 sitting there and was going to experiment with his inks in the thermal printers, but it didn't come to that because the 900 series were usable after all.

What would be really cool is if Jon could develop and market his own printers to use any inks they want in. But that would be a huge feat to come up with a head design that isn't copyright protected. Wonder if some eccentric engineer has some other head design out there. ( then you would have to service them and provide parts, which is an equally big deal.........) Just thinking out loud?

john
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shadowblade

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2016, 10:40:35 pm »

As I've said earlier, I hope some Chinese companies start moving up in the photo inkjet world. After all, they already make more inkjets than Epson, Canon and HP combined, often with sophisticated RIP software, and sell them at a lower price than their Epson equivalents. Just that these are all geared towards industrial use, at 60" to much, much larger, with multiple sets of CMYK for speed rather than light colours and extra colours, printing billboards, banners, advertising material, film coverings for vehicles, etc. - there's no equivalent of the P9000, Pro 4000 or Z3200. Thing is, these companies don't make ink and don't care what you put in them - they'll even sell you the empty tanks or bulk ink systems.
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aaronchan

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2016, 01:02:28 am »

What would be really cool is if Jon could develop and market his own printers to use any inks they want in. But that would be a huge feat to come up with a head design that isn't copyright protected. Wonder if some eccentric engineer has some other head design out there. ( then you would have to service them and provide parts, which is an equally big deal.........) Just thinking out loud?

john

Actually, this is not hard at all.
A Chinese inkjet printer with an epson printhead will do the job easily
as long as, for example, get Roy or Ergosoft to support that printer, things will turns out easy.
I have once talked to Jon when he was visiting Asia, he said his dream printer would be a flatbed just like the flatbed uv printer.
And I think this is coming to be true for now on since there are a lot of Chinese company are making these flatbed printer with piezo print head.
as long as we have a good software that supports these printers, it shouldn't be hard at all.

aaron

shadowblade

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2016, 06:48:07 am »

Actually, this is not hard at all.
A Chinese inkjet printer with an epson printhead will do the job easily
as long as, for example, get Roy or Ergosoft to support that printer, things will turns out easy.
I have once talked to Jon when he was visiting Asia, he said his dream printer would be a flatbed just like the flatbed uv printer.
And I think this is coming to be true for now on since there are a lot of Chinese company are making these flatbed printer with piezo print head.
as long as we have a good software that supports these printers, it shouldn't be hard at all.

aaron

Definitely.

It would also help if he made an alternate version of the inks that worked in thermal heads, instead of piezo - that way, the system wouldn't be beholden to Epson. The pigments would be the same anyway (pure carbon) - the main difference would be the resin.
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Czornyj

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2016, 08:19:33 am »

I have recently bought a P10000 from Tastar Data here in Pittsburgh and am very pleased with it. I print only on canvas and compared a print from my 9900 and the new P10000. There was hardly any difference. The difference in gamut will not be that apparent on canvas. The blacks were more robust on the P10000. The P10000 is fast, fast, fast. Love it. It cost about twice what a P9000 or P8000 runs for, but I plan on keeping this for many years. When I get a full feel for the printer I will put up a review. For me all the new technology in the P10000 is worth it and the 700ml cartridges are much cheaper than the P8000 and P9000.

Gar

Gary,

By any chance did you measure actual printing speed of some popular formats? The printing speed in specification is suprisingly low...
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2016, 10:57:44 am »

Marcin,

I am just getting the feel for the printer. I needed speed so that is why I chose it over the Canon 4000. On canvas giclees, which is all I print on right now, I see no difference in quality between printing at 600dpi as opposed to the higher quality of 1200dpi. The speed at 600dpi is very fast. I would definitely agree with Epson that it is about three times as fast as my previous 9900 or the present P9000. The P10000 will do a printless nozzle check which I love. It would have been nice to have a touch screen, wireless printing, and a replaceable printhead as in the Canons. I was also concerned that the gloss optimizer in the Canons would have to be replaced more often than the inks at a cost of $295.00 per 700ml cartridge. Wish I had the best of both worlds but there is no perfect printer out there. For what I do I am very pleased with the P10000 print quality and would highly recommend it. The new Canons are also great printers for photographers, no doubt. A lot of new technology in those printers and am sure the print quality is superb.

Gar
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Czornyj

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2016, 01:05:02 pm »

Thanks Gary,

I'm really glad you're happy with your new printer ;) I'm just asking about the print speed because this issue puzzles me - in tech specs from the Epson site it seems to be relatively low, while all users report that it's outstanding...
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Marcin Kałuża | [URL=http://zarzadzaniebarwa

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #15 on: September 09, 2016, 04:33:51 pm »

Slow relative to what?

The 10000/20000 series is *much* faster than, say, a new 9000 series unit or previous 9900 looking at A1 print speeds.  Particularly at the highest output resolution.
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Phil Brown

Royce Howland

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2016, 04:09:23 pm »

Well, its arrival was inexplicably delayed but our P10K finally arrived yesterday. I spent the afternoon getting it set up and configured, and then printing a few profiling test targets. Today I'm generating the custom profiles for the papers I managed to print test charts for before the starter ink cartridges ran out.

The new printer does look very good so far. Before continuing on that, a quick side note -- the initial irritation that I expected to see was every bit as irritating as anticipated. The starter ink carts lasted not even 24 hours, with 24 letter sized profile target sheets printed (4 sheets per paper, 6 papers printed). Of course most of the ink went to the initial charging of the lines. But a surprising amount has been dumped straight into the waste tank by what appears to me to be extremely aggressive and lengthy autocleaning cycles. The righthand waste tank is already 99% full and will have to be swapped as soon as we get new, full-size carts and do the first thing that triggers a cleaning. So my feeling is the ink-wasting aspect of the Epsons that we all know has not really changed (or, certainly not for the better) with the new P10K / P20K models.

Speed is extremely fast. I'm not measuring any page size print times yet (see ink issue above), but I really had to watch the printer to catch the roll cuts before they ended up on the floor. The head in this thing is massive and it's covering a massive amount of paper area, compared to previous generations. So the production times should be excellent.

The paper path is different than before. Gone are the days of the angled, straight-through feed. Paper rolls are now loaded on the spindle-less hubs in the top carriage, and feed down through a fly-by-wire loading system similar to the x900 series. But the paper then curves perhaps 35 degrees, and runs across a flat platen under the horizontally-mounted head, feeding out the front horizontally. For thick media that can't curve this way, there's a new front-loaded flat paper path, which I haven't tried yet (no ink). But the roll feed seems to work without drama, though I do miss the days of manual release levers that were faster to deal with than the often painfully slow fly-by-wire systems seem to be.

There seem to be lots of other small, incremental improvements in there. And some changes that may need further examination, e.g. some very fine, toothed pizza wheels at the front paper exit.

From the custom profiles done this morning, gamut and dmax on some papers looks to be significantly improved vs. the old 11880 ink set. On some other papers, though, the improvement in both gamut and dmax is negligible. I thought I might immediately see a more marked improved from the new black, and extra grey. More analysis will be needed on this topic.

No ability to look at any print quality comparisons yet, since I'm now waiting on full size ink cartridges. They were ordered along with the new printer, but for some reason didn't arrive. When they get here, I'll be able to really put the machine through some paces, and have more to say about it...

deanwork

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2016, 11:23:30 am »

Thanks Royce,

I'm very curious. Yea I think that's really cheap of them to put these dinky ink carts in such an expensive machine. Add another 2K for a set of inks, so your really talking an $8,500.00 printer to get started  plus the waste tank.

It may be worth it in the long run with the ink prices a little less, if they don't increase their prices.

For me the two big things that  would determine my buying one would be, do the new heads really function better in regard to nozzle issues and durability, like the original 10K, which this machine looks exactly like in many aspects, and does the added gray really have a software capable of making it even worth thinking about.

I don't know why they don't have real independent experts evaluating these things and publishing reviews before the printers are released. It's always a dribble here and a dribble there before anyone knows anything. Same with Canon pretty much.

john
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dgberg

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2016, 12:41:01 pm »

I came really close to buying the 10000 when my 9900 needed a new head.
What I did instead was repair my 9900 ($2950 for a new head and capping station)
Also purchased a used 9890 still under it's 3 year warranty for $1500.
The new 10000 with a full set of 700ml carts was just under $9000.
I paid $4450 which is half of the 10000 and I now have 2 44" printers in excellent shape.
What tipped the hat was the 10,000 ml of K3 inks that I have here that can be used in both printers. (Sorry, know I have said that before.)
That whole thing of diminishing returns also plays into this.
Are the new ones better, no doubt. I would have loved it for sure.
Is it $4500 better, not for me.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2016, 12:53:12 pm by Dan Berg »
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deanwork

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Re: epson P10000 review
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2016, 01:34:04 pm »

We don't know whether it is better or not, apart from the fade resistance. It will probably be a year before we know. If they are as dependable as they say, they will be around a long time and the prices will come down. Now they don't even have enough units to supply all the orders.

I know what you mean about holding on to equipment. I put a new mainboard in my Canon 8300 and it is like new. Lightning blew the board and it was my fault 100%.  I don't see a lot to wear out on these machines other than the electronics. The only reason I'd go for the expense of the 10K would be a major improvement in head life, in addition to major improvement in monochrome. Speed has never been an issue for me and I don't even think about it.

j
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