The dreaded 'looks like electrical or mechanical internal head fault' on my 9890

[NeilPrintArt]

Help!! Seems like the head on my 9890 is gone. I am attaching nozzle checks - was wondering if anyone had any advice or cleaver tips?

Couple days ago did my usual morning nozzle check on coming in the studio to find the MK pattern with 2 large bands of missing nozzles. I have tried all the normal cleaning routines (cleaning, service mode cleaning, wiper blade, capping station, soaked tissue under print head etc) but nothing has help. Have switched between MK and PK and back again - no change. I have now flushed that line out with Jon Cone PiezoFlush, have let it sit overnight, still no change.

My printer technician guy is saying 'looks like electrical or mechanical internal head fault'. Was wondering if anyone could confirm or deny?

I bought the machine new 3 years ago. I have used it regularly since then at a moderate to low volume. Have always run it using OEM inks. In the same room is my 6 or 7 year old 9800 running third-party inks which has been heavily abused and still happily cranking out prints. They don't make 'em like that any more!

So if I do need to buy a new head - does anyone have advice as to where to look? I'm outside the US (in Cape Town, South Africa) and the local Epson agents are quoting me about half the price of a new machine to just supply the head!

Any help would be grateful received thanks in advance.

Neil

   

[NeilPrintArt]

*was wondering if anyone had any advice or cleaver tips?* - should read *clever* of course but cleaver or sledgehammer is actually feeling right just about now 

[Mark D Segal]

I don't have a solution from this distance of course, but a few suggestions. Firstly, I've seen stubborn nozzle checks looking pretty much like that which were NOT caused by any electro-mechanical problem in the print head. I'm not saying the technician is wrong, just that he may not be necessarily correct. If, however, the following cleaning routine doesn't work, I would begin to believe that: do a series of power-cleans, but between each one print a letter-size sheet filled with only that ink. Do a nozzle check between each cycle of powerclean-print, powerclean-print. If after three or four of these the same pattern persists, it probably is the head. And yes, a replacement head does cost a high percentage of the value of a new printer, even here in North America. So before doing that you may want to think about moving up to a newer generation of printer.

[Royce Howland]

From looking at those nozzle checks, my opinion is the head is gone. If you look at the vertical lines bordering both sides of the missing lines, you'll see the ink has a small rightward curve that shouldn't be there. Plus parts of the lines that are printing are not printing on the angle they should be.

I've seen these kinds of deflections before, and unsuccessfully fought them in every way I could think of. I now believe this pattern is simply characteristic of physical head failure. Parts of the printing surface have failed, and the areas adjoining those failed parts are still functioning but out of alignment. I'd hazard a prediction that if you keep trying to work with the head in various ways, you may see the blank area of the nozzle check expand, with the same visible flaws moving to the expanded boundary of missing ink.

If I was in your situation I would not waste any more time, ink or other material trying to clean the head. Based on my experience, I would either get a new head installed or scrap the printer.

[Mark D Segal]

From looking at those nozzle checks, my opinion is the head is gone. If you look at the vertical lines bordering both sides of the missing lines, you'll see the ink has a small rightward curve that shouldn't be there. Plus parts of the lines that are printing are not printing on the angle they should be.

I've seen these kinds of deflections before, and unsuccessfully fought them in every way I could think of. I now believe this pattern is simply characteristic of physical head failure. Parts of the printing surface have failed, and the areas adjoining those failed parts are still functioning but out of alignment. I'd hazard a prediction that if you keep trying to work with the head in various ways, you may see the blank area of the nozzle check expand, with the same visible flaws moving to the expanded boundary of missing ink.

If I was in your situation I would not waste any more time, ink or other material trying to clean the head. Based on my experience, I would either get a new head installed or scrap the printer.

You may well be right, but what I recommended would take half an hour and consume a very small value of ink and paper compared with the cost of replacing hardware. Worth a shot just in case.

[NeilPrintArt]

Thanks for the replies,

Mark - I have tried the powerclean-print-nozzlecheck x3 cycle you recommended, but unfortunately to no avail. Does seem like a good idea though thank you.

My next step is to start looking for a new head (I am not in a position to invest in a new machine), looking at eBay and similar there are  Chinese based adverts for "100% original made in japan" epson replacement heads. Does anyone have any experience (or recommendations) buying print heads online?

 

[Mark D Segal]

Thanks for the replies,
............. looking at eBay and similar there are  Chinese based adverts for "100% original made in japan" epson replacement heads. Does anyone have any experience (or recommendations) buying print heads online?

Not me, but EXTREME caution recommended. If they are selling them at a throwaway price, it may well be throw-away equipment. I believe Epson keeps pretty tight control over the legitimate distribution channels for printheads in particular. This is not something that can be cloned in your typical basement workshop. !! :-)

[NeilPrintArt]

Not me, but EXTREME caution recommended. If they are selling them at a throwaway price, it may well be throw-away equipment.

Yes the thought of buying something like a printhead from an online distributor on mainland china is pretty scary - but certainly not throwaway prices - around US$1500 - and just maybe legit?

[Mark D Segal]

Yes the thought of buying something like a printhead from an online distributor on mainland china is pretty scary - but certainly not throwaway prices - around US$1500 - and just maybe legit?

Warranty? Enforceability of a warranty claim? How much cheaper than buying it directly from Epson or their authorized service rep?

[Royce Howland]

As I mentioned in the parallel x890 thread, I do a lot of self-support of our print shop's large format Epsons. So far the only task I have chosen not to tackle myself is a head replacement. There are online sources for Epson heads, but Epson tries to restrict the supply of heads strictly to authorized Epson service centres. So by definition these online heads, even if they are legitimate OEM parts, are coming from some sort of grey market supply pipeline.

The second issue with replacing a head yourself is that it's not designed to be a self-service option. You can physically pull the old head and put in the new one, following the guidance of the Epson service manual which is available from various sources. But activating the new head in the printer requires running an Epson maintenance software program (Windows-only I believe) on a laptop that's plugged into the printer in service mode. A code from the new head must be entered into the service app, supposedly to calibrate voltages used to drive the head or something like that.

Of course the Epson service program is also not legitimately available to anyone outside of authorized service centres. Again, you can probably obtain the software somewhere online through crack sites or whatever, but that's not something I am personally willing to do. So now you've got two pieces of essential equipment you need to perform this maintenance, that aren't legitimately available. Needless to say there would be no warranty on any of this, and you're dealing with the heart of the printer.

That's why head replacement is the one Epson service task I for sure still call Epson to do, rather than attempting it myself. I'm confident of my own technical competence to do the task, but I don't want that much grey market risk...

[Wayne Fox]

If after repeated cleanings there are no changes at all in the missing nozzles (which it appears from your attachments that is the case) the most likely cause is a head fault.

As far as replacing the head, Royce explained it very well. It requires Epson service software running on a  windows machine.  It’s not a plug and play type of thing. We replace quite a few heads for customers at my store, and we’ve even had cases where the codes didn’t match up correctly and required Epson service support to remedy. this isn’t the same support as end user support, and is difficult to get access to.

Additionally while it might cost more if Epson does it, I’ve seen cases where the new head has been defective or damaged during installation and had one tech who fried the main board when replacing the head in my original 7900 in the process of replacing the head.  If Epson does it, they’ve got to fix it.  If you do it, you’re out the new head and still do not have a working machine.

[Peter McLennan]

I recently paid to have the head replaced on my 9800. I had similar symptoms to the OP.

The head alone was about $700, if I recall correctly.  It was sourced from Epson.  Chinese suppliers wanted $1400.  I had all the dampers replaced at the same time and the total bill including labour came to nearly $2K.

I watched the entire process and I don't think the mechanical part of the install is beyond the abilities of the average technically competent person equipped with a long-handled magnetic Phillips screwdriver.  The "Adjustment Program" process was also trivial.  Accessing the software might be another story.

[deanwork]

Replace the damper unit first.


First of all it is only the Black channel that is clogged right? I would take the head cover off and try to pull ink through that ink line. The black ink channels, both of them are carbon and if the printer is left unused for awhile or the carts not shaken for awhile particles can lodge in the line.  Also replace the damper unit, the filters that clean sediment from the ink cart to the head. You can order those from Compas Micro. Do that first before even thinking about a new head. That is often the problem with Epson printers. That would be my guess, ink starvation. You did put cones flush fluid in the cart which is good but maybe it didn't break through the blocked line. I have had this happen in years past. Decision One working for Epson wouldn't even try the easy things 90% of the time they would slap in a new head and charge you more than the printer is worth, and that's a damn shame for something as big and robust as the 9890, that in all other respects should last you many many years of moderate use.

I have this printer and it is a pretty solid machine if you keep the ink flowing and keep the pads from ever drying out at the cap station.

What I would do before thinking about replacing the head if the damper assembly doesn't do the job, is buy a set of the third part ink carts for all the channels, you only need the small ones, put the pink flush fluid in all the channels and do an initial fill, maybe twice, maybe more over a couple of days, clean the whole thing out and let it sit in there for a couple of days. Don't waste any more expensive pigment doing this. You can easily see the nozzle check pattern with the flush fluid, so don't put inks in the channel until it is clean, or you replace the head entirely if you know someone who is mechanical enough to install it. I don't trust myself doing stuff like this but many people can follow the manual. The Cone fluid actually dissolves the crud like a solvent but without damaging the print head. But sometimes it just takes time. I've been there with older Epsons.

If you do want a print head that I would try AliBaba in China through their website. There are several up there and these people get things from Japan that we can't get.   https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/original-printer-head-for-Epson-stylus_759845965.html?spm=a2700.7724838.0.0.07fuY4       Like everything make sure the seller has a decent rating. Like Ebay if they scam people they get kicked off the site. Make sure they have a transaction history there.

 I recently ordered the internal Eye One spectro for my Hp Z printer and it came in perfect condition, looks like it was never used,  It was $100.00 and I got it in 5 days. People were selling them for 7x that on Ebay.  You can bargain with these people on the site.  Just make an offer. I wouldn't pay over $500.00-$700.00. Look on Ebay, what you see on Ebay is people ordering these printheads from China and selling them for $1,400.00, now that's a scam.

john

[Mark D Segal]

While your cleaning suggestions can be very useful, take a careful look in this particular case at the pattern of the blockage: it is virtually identical for both MK and PK. These share a line beyond the MK/PK switch in the damper assembly. So whatever the problem is, it would seem to be lodged between the damper and the printhead. If the additional clean/print cycles I recommended as a first step don't work, changing the pump/cap and damper assemblies may be the next step before contemplating a print head. I would recommend engaging a qualified technician to do this work. The parts themselves aren't difficult to manage, but it's all the disassembly and reassembly - you really need to know what you're doing.

[Wayne Fox]

While replacing the dampers is relatively inexpensive (compared to the head, and when you replace a head it's a good idea to replace the damper unit as well, and probably the pump/cap assembly if the printer is several years old), the typical symptom of damper failure is entire missing channels. I'm not aware of a filtering element to remove particles in the dampers (I have seen them disassembled), they are designed to filter out small air bubbles that can get in the lines.  thus when they fail they allow air to get into the line so the ink doesn't get through.  The scans in the original post are classic symptoms of a head failure ... missing nozzles that do not change regardless of any efforts to clear them (other than perhaps getting worse).

The value of repairing the machine vs a new machine depends on a few things, to me the first thing to consider does the new machine represent a technological step forward.  So replacing a 9890 or 9900 with a p8000 or p9000 might make some sense.

But given that once the new head  and dampers are in you have a machine which should offer the same quality as when it was new, and certainly several years of life expectancy (depending on all of the other factors).  We are on our 3rd head with our 11880 and both heads lasted about 3 years, the printer is working 6 days a week and while not as heavily used as many epson, does crank out a decent amount of work.

As far as DIY head swap ... if you can get a  copy of the service tech manual which walks through the process, and can get a copy of the Epson service software which is required to register the head to the printer, and are pretty handy with stuff like this, I guess it might be worth the chance.  As mentioned, replace the damper assembly as well.

[Mark D Segal]

Wayne, while in the final analysis you may well be right that the problem is the print head, and as you correctly recommend to change the pump/cap/damper assemblies as well, don't you think it may be worthwhile trying the latter first just in case it solves the problem. If it doesn't, then the print-head change becomes inevitable. In so doing it will of course also be necessary to ensure that the lines are clean and there is no air in the works.

[Royce Howland]

I guess it depends on the OP's appetite for DIY, and potentially taking side trips that cost time, some $ and materials but don't resolve the issue. The point of doing diagnostics is to try to learn what the real problem is, therefore suggesting one or more targeted solutions. In my experience, that nozzle check pattern is pretty well a definitive diagnostic for head failure. If it is a dead head, then none of the other actions will bring the printer back into service. If it was my printer, based on what I know I would consider it not open to question right now.

These other tasks may be useful to do in their own right, and I'm all in favour of LFP owners getting their hands dirty with their printers and learning to do good maintenance. It can add years of productive life span to a printer. I've done it myself, and it's rewarding to reassert a measure of control over the health and productivity of the printers I work with.

I've also taken the opportunity (as recently as this past weekend) to experiment with various things on a printer that I knew had a dead head, on the logic that I was "in for a penny, in for a pound". Since I'd be calling Decision One in anyway for a big ticket replacement of the known failed head, I could afford to experiment and not cost myself that much more if I pooched something else and had the tech fix it too.

So really in this case it's the OP's call whether to experiment with other stuff like dampers, the capping unit, and so on, just in case. But having seen this situation several times, unsuccessfully tried all kinds of other remedies, and if the objective is more like "get the printer working again as quickly and low risk/cost as possible", then I'm pretty confident the head will have to be replaced anyway.

I have an 11880 with a dead head right now, and it has had a new cleaning unit and new dampers installed within the past few months. I will be calling in Decision One to replace the head, after which I'm going to keep the old one and do some closeup photos of the failed section. I want to see if there's any visible signs that could further help definitively ID this kind of failure...

[deanwork]

What is really frustrating about these Epson heads, and I've been dealing with them for 15 years,  is that when one nozzle goes down the whole freaking unit is worthless and has to be replaced for near the value of the printer. Maybe it is just me but having this giant, well made,robust machine that could easily last a decade and produce great work in the process, have to be trashed because of one nozzle is just about the craziest thing I can imagine. But we accept it.

 The HP heads only have two channels each and cost $70.00 each. That is the smartest method anyone has come up with and why my Z3100 is still going strong after 9 years of use. I"m still buying the Hp inks every month and their heads when necessary. The Canons, at least the 8300-8400s have two heads so you spend $450.00 for one bad nozzle, and even that is crazy but a lot more reasonable than with my Epson.

I've heard all this Epson and Canon talk from sales people for So long that, oh you should just move on to the new "improved" model anyway. It's just like most things in the high tech industry - planned obsolescence. Now that is one thing when you talking about an iPhone or even a laptop, but something this big, that takes 4 people to move, it just goes against common sense. Their money is not being made from selling printers it is being made from selling consumables. So, even from their point of view it doesn't seem logical to me. It just makes the customer mad and less likely to buy another Epson in the future.

john

[Wayne Fox]

I have tried all the normal cleaning routines (cleaning, service mode cleaning, wiper blade, capping station, soaked tissue under print head etc) but nothing has help. Have switched between MK and PK and back again - no change. I have now flushed that line out with Jon Cone PiezoFlush, have let it sit overnight, still no change.

Wayne, while in the final analysis you may well be right that the problem is the print head, and as you correctly recommend to change the pump/cap/damper assemblies as well, don't you think it may be worthwhile trying the latter first just in case it solves the problem. If it doesn't, then the print-head change becomes inevitable. In so doing it will of course also be necessary to ensure that the lines are clean and there is no air in the works.

Seems from the original post he has already done enough to cause some changes in the missing nozzle pattern which is the classic symptom of internal head issues. Certainly changing out the dampers first if doing it anyway may be worthwhile, but from the symptoms described and the nozzle check patterns it just doesn’t look like a damper problem to me.  I guess it’s a matter of time as well, to get the damper assembly to his location, change it out and then have to wait to get a head, and sort of go through all the same steps again.  Guess depends on his budget and time.

[Mark D Segal]

What is really frustrating about these Epson heads, and I've been dealing with them for 15 years,  is that when one nozzle goes down the whole freaking unit is worthless and has to be replaced for near the value of the printer. ............ it doesn't seem logical to me.

john

This takes us off topic, but now that you raised it, yes, it doesn't "seem" logical, but then perhaps one needs to know a lot more about the underlying technology to understand why it is the way it is. Perhaps there's something about the piezo-electric technology they developed that makes it much more expensive to provide these heads in modular formats. Then one also needs to look at the overall picture, for which we consumers have only anecdotal information. For example, one highly respected tech in my area who services about every make on the market tells me that for these Epson professional printers, the print head is usually the last place to go when service is required, and on the whole the heads last a very long time, unlike others that are consumables and behave as such - they get consumed - much faster. So yes, if MY head goes on MY printer and it's going to cost me 1500 bucks on account of a nozzle I have a right to be at least asking questions about the merits of this technology, but seen from a broader perspective I'm prepared to countenance the idea that there is a logic..........