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Author Topic: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)  (Read 53903 times)

Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2016, 02:00:33 pm »

.............Apple API change in their XCode toolset is the culprit.

No. Whatever change to an operating system Apple introduces, Adobe is responsible for the behaviour of their own application in the context of that OS. Normally Apple informs application developers months ahead about significant changes to the OS. Even if they failed to do so this time, when Adobe is preparing to issue an update version of an Adobe product, if they haven't properly tested it for this kind of CORE FUNCTIONALITY (especially as new code was written for the Apple OSX changes) it is my opinion that Adobe is directly responsible. I'm willing to be proven wrong about this, but there is risk of chaos unless there is some pecking order about who is responsible for what product at what stage.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Doug Gray

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2016, 02:08:21 pm »

No. Whatever change to an operating system Apple introduces, Adobe is responsible for the behaviour of their own application in the context of that OS. Normally Apple informs application developers months ahead about significant changes to the OS. Even if they failed to do so this time, when Adobe is preparing to issue an update version of an Adobe product, if they haven't properly tested it for this kind of CORE FUNCTIONALITY (especially as new code was written for the Apple OSX changes) it is my opinion that Adobe is directly responsible. I'm willing to be proven wrong about this, but there is risk of chaos unless there is some pecking order about who is responsible for what product at what stage.

You are absolutely right it is Adobe's fault. Apple dropped some APIs and Adobe presumably could have used the older dev if allowed by their licensing. At a minimum they could have just not pushed the update until the problem was fixed. It is core functionality and it is a major screwup. Hard to believe their QC didn't catch this and indicates really poor QC.
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Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2016, 02:17:06 pm »

Yes indeed, very poor QC; but in the final analysis in a corporate environment the buck stops with the Product Manager. Whoever that group or person is needs to be on top of the whole chain of operations from concept through programming through QC to release. I frankly find this kind of thing incomprehensible especially in the context of previous experience with such screw-ups, but there we have it.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2016, 04:23:02 pm »

What would be super useful would be to find someone who sees a print issue (difference) on either LR or PS that isn't using an Epson printer on Mac. I've spent most of my day talking with and emailing Epson and Adobe. It would be useful to know if this is solely an Epson issue (despite some reporting it's not but I don't know how savvy they are) or more wide spread.
On my 3880, blues are most affected. I can visually see that on my targets. A Granger Rainbow shows this off too in this area of color space with more severe banding from the 'bug'.
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digitaldog

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2016, 05:42:46 pm »

https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/unexpected-colors-when-printing-mac.html </blockquote>[/color]


The older Epson 3880 printer drivers have incorrect profiles associated with the following paper types: Ultra Premium Luster, Premium Photo Glossy, WaterColor Paper Radian White, and UltraSmooth Fine Art. When you select one of these paper profiles, the colors are incorrect and do not match the previous versions of Lightroom.
To resolve this issue, download and install the latest printer driver for the Epson Stylus Pro 3880 :
Mac OS: Download printer driver v9.33 or later.


Note:
On Epson's download page, make sure that you select the correct operating system and that you download the driver version with the latest release date.


So I took that advise. Downloaded the 3880 driver again. I did an uninstall by removing the printer from Print/Fax. This is what I'd expect 90+% of Adobe customers would do as there is no Epson uninstaller!

Then I reinstalled the driver as they recommend.

I printed my color reference image, on Exhibition Fiber. That paper isn't listed as being an issue above. Doesn't matter however as they tell us that following the suggestions with the latest driver is a fix anyway.

I printed with LRCC and LR 5. THEY DO NOT MATCH! Of course, if what they wrote above were accurate, they would match.
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Doug Gray

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2016, 07:44:57 pm »

Would it be possible to intercept the data being sent to the printers (Ethernet with wireshark, etc) between the two releases to examine exactly how the colors are being changed? Might be a useful clue for the Adobe folks and hard, specific duplicable evidence of the bug.
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digitaldog

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2016, 07:53:06 pm »

Would it be possible to intercept the data being sent to the printers (Ethernet with wireshark, etc) between the two releases to examine exactly how the colors are being changed? Might be a useful clue for the Adobe folks and hard, specific duplicable evidence of the bug.
We could examine the print spool from CUPS but the bigger question and thus issue is this; does the fix Adobe suggests work? It didn't for me.
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howardm

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2016, 07:53:38 pm »

I would think that by the time the image hits the network wire, it's been rasterized and munged into what the printer wants which is a binary data stream so 'color' doesnt exist.

Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2016, 08:36:43 pm »

Would it be possible to intercept the data being sent to the printers (Ethernet with wireshark, etc) between the two releases to examine exactly how the colors are being changed? Might be a useful clue for the Adobe folks and hard, specific duplicable evidence of the bug.

I think at the moment the relevant Adobe staff are in denial. They really do need to be shown that the problem comes from their new software versions, not the printer drivers. This should not be difficult: comparing (in a quantitative manner as Andrew and I have been doing) a print of exactly the same reference file printed in the same way with the previous version app versus the new version app and the latest Epson or Canon drivers should be convincing enough. From there no doubt they have the technical skill to trace what went wrong and fix it. But the first priority is to get them out of denial.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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Alan Goldhammer

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #29 on: July 02, 2016, 08:20:28 am »

Has anyone talked to Jeff Schewe about this?  He is well linked to a number of the folks at Adobe and I know from the videos that he uses MacOS.  Maybe he hasn't done any printing since this new release or is otherwise occupied and doesn't know of the problem.

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digitaldog

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #30 on: July 02, 2016, 01:34:28 pm »

Has anyone talked to Jeff Schewe about this?
Yes.
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elolaugesen

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2016, 02:18:44 am »

I am going back home to do some printing of original art work that artists need for shows in the next 3-4 weeks.  Especially my other half.  When I printed for one of them using latest photoshop cc2015.5 I did have a few issues with two - 3 areas of blue skies.  I assumed that, as he is a painter that uses many different techniques on the same painting oil, watercolour, gouache etc etc.  He tends to be diffficult to color manage anyway....  (the original sold  a week ago  and gone to a place down under)  no painting to compare to anymore.  Likewise all the originals for the other artists that I may print in the next month have all sold and gone to good homes.

Therefore will go back home tomorrow try to to back to the older version of photoshop......  If this is not possible any thoughts on using an old version of Photoshop Elements 9 or 11 just to do the printing?????  all the work is ready to print.  I know that it is only 8bit instead of 16 bit..  but on mat textured paper will there be as big a difference as printing with the print bug in 2015.5???

thanks elo laugesen  (3880 - epson inks)
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Denis de Gannes

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2016, 06:51:17 am »

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digitaldog

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2016, 10:29:32 am »

Have a look at this help post from Adobe.

https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/unexpected-colors-when-printing-mac.html
Why? IT (their 'fix') DOESN'T WORK! It's no help at all. For me and others. Of course I encourage any and everyone to try it so we can get some proof of concept (or lack thereof) that Adobe tested this suggestion and it's useful. So far, I've not heard from anyone on three well populated forums that reinstalling the driver fixes this bug.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2016, 10:33:05 am »

Why? IT (their 'fix') DOESN'T WORK! It's no help at all. For me and others. Of course I encourage any and everyone to try it so we can get some proof of concept (or lack thereof) that Adobe tested this suggestion and it's useful. So far, I've not heard from anyone on three well populated forums that reinstalling the driver fixes this bug.

Could it be that there are no updated drivers yet, until which the issue will remain unsolved?

Cheers,
Bart
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howardm

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2016, 10:40:11 am »

They (Adobe) do indicate that v9.33 of the driver is the *fix* for the 3880.  I haven't gotten around to doing comparisons yet between PS versions but I did install the prior version of LR/CC

Mark D Segal

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2016, 10:56:51 am »

Could it be that there are no updated drivers yet, until which the issue will remain unsolved?

Cheers,
Bart

Firstly, they haven't offered a shred of evidence as to why the Epson driver may be the issue, while all who reported implementing their fix find it useless - several Adobe staff are the ones saying this driver version fixes the problem but apparently it doesn't; secondly, they haven't evinced any counter-argument to the fact that with the same Epson driver and OS, the previous versions of LR/PS reproduced colours just fine while the current ones do not; thirdly they haven't provided us with any confidence that they've collaborated with either Epson or Apple to insure that these new releases make correct prints before releasing them or indeed testing that they do; and fourthly, they've shown no interest whatsoever in reaching out to those in the community who have real evidence shedding light on this problem.

I think we need to let the holiday weekend pass and then see whether anything intelligible and intelligent comes out on this matter from any of the named companies. I suspect/expect that after the holiday weekend there will be some intensive conversations behind the scenes between technical people in the three companies to make sure this gets sorted out one way or another.
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Mark D Segal (formerly MarkDS)
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digitaldog

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2016, 11:29:15 am »

Could it be that there are no updated drivers yet, until which the issue will remain unsolved?
Bart, did you read the suggestions for the fix on the Adobe URL? Did you read what they wrote, singling out, for no logical reason, the Epson 3880 of which I own, tested and found the fix failed to correct? Can you explain how the driver which is said to be buggy, works with every app outside the two products just updated by Adobe using the same OS version? We're supposed to believe a 'hidden' bug which didn't manifest itself does, simply due to an update to two CC apps?
Virtually everything Adobe stated in that URL either makes zero sense and doesn't work. And yet we're supposed to believe WE should contact our print vendors and demand they fix this?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: LR CC 2015.6 and Photoshop CC 2015.5 print bug (Mac)
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2016, 12:30:14 pm »

Bart, did you read the suggestions for the fix on the Adobe URL?

Yes, I did.

Quote
Did you read what they wrote, singling out, for no logical reason, the Epson 3880 of which I own, tested and found the fix failed to correct?

Yes, the mention of a single printer model was puzzling, if indeed it is caused by an update to newer APIs.

Quote
Can you explain how the driver which is said to be buggy, works with every app outside the two products just updated by Adobe using the same OS version?

The only logical reason I can think of is that they sofar only/mainly received complaints about the interaction with that printer model (which would be statistically likely due to it's supposed popularity, so complaints surface sooner).

Quote
We're supposed to believe a 'hidden' bug which didn't manifest itself does, simply due to an update to two CC apps?

I could imagine that the deprecated API versions were also used to compile parts (dependencies) of those drivers. After all, part of the print pipeline on MacOS is done by the OS (Quartz graphics layer and ColorSync), unlike on Windows where the driver does almost all. So the printer driver at some point will hand of the data to the APIs, and may do so expecting the wrong (old) APIs or entry points.
 
Quote
Virtually everything Adobe stated in that URL either makes zero sense and doesn't work. And yet we're supposed to believe WE should contact our print vendors and demand they fix this?

No, I agree it's totally fucked up and unsatisfactory. I'm just trying to understand what the real issues are, since Adobe seems to be not forthcoming with working solutions. This is a very serious issue that affects many professional users, and hurts their reputation and they are left dangling by Adobe (or the printer driver programmers if they have to make a followup move as well). This should be fixed without hesitation, and not left to users to analyze (although their reports can help).

Cheers,
Bart
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