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Author Topic: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?  (Read 5008 times)

Guillermo Luijk

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Very close to competition indeed:



The fact that the new 5D4 won't be 60Mpx should even increase this performance if its technology is equaled.

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2016, 06:10:27 pm »

You mean very close to 2 years old (not to say 4) sensors, right? ;) But it is great to see tham progressing on this key metric!

But Canon's main issue nowadays is AF judging from the D5/D500. The 5DIV will be at best as good as the 1DXII (and I doubt Canon would have taken the risk to cannibalise the 1DXII because they have targeted the 1DXII as a generic camera) and that would mean very good but behind the best.

Not to speak about the a9r...

It would appear that the 5 DIV is already outdated before it even shows up. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

AlterEgo

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2016, 06:12:32 pm »

You mean very close to 2 years old (not to say 4) sensors, right? ;) But it is great to see tham progressing on this key metric!

But Canon's main issue nowadays is AF judging from the D5/D500. The 5DIV will be at best as good as the 1DXII (and I doubt Canon would have taken the risk to cannibalise the 1DXII because they have targeted the 1DXII as a generic camera) and that would mean very good but behind the best.

Not to speak about the a9r...

It would appear that the 5 DIV is already outdated before it even shows up. ;)

Cheers,
Bernard

Canon minds the market within their capabilities... so far better sensors, AF, you name it did not help neither N nor S nor nobody to dethrone it ...
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2016, 06:25:05 pm »

Canon minds the market within their capabilities... so far better sensors, AF, you name it did not help neither N nor S nor nobody to dethrone it ...

Indeed and there are both objective (lens line up, existing investment,...) reasons for that and others resulting from their marketing and sales skills (mostly power play with retailers).

Based on the current rumors and common sense the 5DIV will be a solid upgrade for existing Canon users but it unlikely to convince anyone from swiching over. The real question being what % of 5DIII users it will prevent from buying into Sony.

When looking at the results of the a7RII with the new 85mm f1.4 with eye detection... I think that both Canon and Nikon will have a very serious issue vs the a9, and that AF is the next key metric. But among DSLRs Nikon is currently winning the jurrasic parc AF battle IMHO.

Cheers,
Bernard
« Last Edit: June 18, 2016, 01:43:35 am by BernardLanguillier »
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dwswager

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2016, 09:18:00 pm »

Canon minds the market within their capabilities... so far better sensors, AF, you name it did not help neither N nor S nor nobody to dethrone it ...

Had a friend text me during the Copa America game last night that "almost all the photographers shooting Canon".  My response:  Pro fields much more evenly lit and to 2-3 stops higher levels than high school fields.  And you won't even shoot your less than $6500 Canon at night because you tell me it isn't worth the effort.

And I've been learning Lr and watching tons of videos from different gurus.  I found out almost all shoot Canon.  How?  They spend an inordinate amount of time and effort fixing noise.   I was shocked.  I think it was a Julianne Kost course and she was lifting shadows in an image clearly shot in reasonably bright daylight (low ISO) and holy crap.  If I had to deal with that, I blow my brains out.
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2016, 03:10:55 am »

It would appear that the 5 DIV is already outdated before it even shows up. ;)

Ok! this used to be true in all Canon sensor iterations for the last years. But at last there has been a remarkable improvement. Even if this sensor seems to be a bit under the worst of D810's and A7RII's at every ISO.

Regards!



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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2016, 04:41:07 am »

Same old story: Canon are boring, can not match the competition, yada yada yada... then look at the majority of pros and amateurs use, surprise, it's Canon... perhaps what is discussed on the `net ad nauseum matters little in real life applications after all...

P.S. I have moved from Canon to Sony A7 almost 2 years ago, but only to lighten my backpack.

John Koerner

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2016, 11:00:22 am »

Same old story: Canon are boring, can not match the competition, yada yada yada... then look at the majority of pros and amateurs use, surprise, it's Canon...

The majority of people also drive Toyotas and Hondas, but does that mean you'd rather own one of these than a Porsche 911?
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BradSmith

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2016, 08:55:34 pm »

The majority of people also drive Toyotas and Hondas, but does that mean you'd rather own one of these than a Porsche 911?

To each his own, but I'd rather drive the Toyota and keep $60,000 in the bank.  I also do not own a Leica.   :-)
Brad
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mcbroomf

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2016, 10:08:40 am »

Ok! this used to be true in all Canon sensor iterations for the last years. But at last there has been a remarkable improvement. Even if this sensor seems to be a bit under the worst of D810's and A7RII's at every ISO.

Regards!

www.guillermoluijk.com
Yes!  I quite agree.  Perhaps not leading edge but competitive at low ISO at last.  I switched from Canon to Sony for high DR low ISO and I'm firmly in the mirrorless FF camp now, but if (when?) Canon dips their toes in these waters I would at least be able to consider them now.
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2016, 10:50:39 am »

The majority of people also drive Toyotas and Hondas, but does that mean you'd rather own one of these than a Porsche 911?

Well, I am sure that pros using Canon, and lots of users using Canon, could easily afford  the competition, say an equivalent Nikon system. Still, somehow, they don't, they must be masochists, or blind, for not seeing the light. So it is not a matter of money, so your comparison is meaningless in this context.

Unless you mean that pros using Canon should dump their kit for more expensive systems, like Leica? But then, how would they shoot Copa America or Euro 2016? Or the coming Olympics?

As for myself, I have no desire to own a 911.

BernardLanguillier

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2016, 05:17:19 pm »

Well, I am sure that pros using Canon, and lots of users using Canon, could easily afford  the competition, say an equivalent Nikon system. Still, somehow, they don't, they must be masochists, or blind, for not seeing the light. So it is not a matter of money, so your comparison is meaningless in this context.

Unless you mean that pros using Canon should dump their kit for more expensive systems, like Leica? But then, how would they shoot Copa America or Euro 2016? Or the coming Olympics?

Indeed. Anybody thinking that it isn't possible to take amazing pro level images with Canon gear has a problem with reality. The % of pros shooting Canon depends on the domain and country, but it is overall probably well over 60%.

It at least tells us that Canon equipment is good enough and dependable and new generations will only make that better.

Some combinations of body and lenses are not just good enough, they are the best available, such as the 200-400 f4.

Now, that is rarely, if ever, thanks to the level of performance of the body, it is typically thanks to the level of performance of the lens.

And this is the reason why Canon still owns 60% of the pro market, photographers like their lenses and don't think (right or wrong) that Nikon's lenses are as good or better enough to make it worth a costly and time consuming shift.

Pro photographers are overall busy and tired, why take a risk unless there is a clear competitive differentiator?

I personally think that the AF of the D500/D5 may be such a differentiator for some applicatins but I am sure that they will soon realize this by themselves if I am right.

Cheers,
Bernard

Guillermo Luijk

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2016, 07:40:13 am »

With recent Sony A6300 data available in DxOMark, I have extrapolated how Nikon and Sony new FF iterations (Sony A7R III and Nikon D900?) would compare to this hypothetic Canon 5D Mark IV:

Dynamic Range: Canon 5D Mark IV vs Sony A7R III vs Nikon D900

Regards

Guillermo Luijk

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2016, 01:59:44 am »

Recovering the statistical projection of the 80D's photosites to a FF format I did (labelled as 5D IV here):



And comparing it to the real 5D IV measured DR:



We can conclude that the final performance of the 5D IV is better than "expected" (even beating the Nikon D810 except at the very low ISO range) thanks to: keeping 5D IV's resolution to a moderate level (5D IV's photosites are larger than 80D's), and/or because 5D IV's sensor technology is even more developed than 80D's.

Let's see if the next Nikony iterations put things back to what they used to be, or we are to get used to a new much more even era between the three contenders, where sensor performance is not anymore a key feature.

Regards


www.guillermoluijk.com
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 02:12:05 am by Guillermo Luijk »
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Ray

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2016, 09:04:30 pm »

The next camera I'd like to buy would be a full-frame Nikon which uses D7200 pixels of at least the same quality. Such a camera would be around 54 mp and have significantly better DR, at equal image size, than any other full-frame currently available.

The attached graph compares the DR of the D7200, the Canon 5D4 and the Canon 80D at the pixel level.

The 80D pixel is the worst by far. To some extent this is because it has the smallest pixel, but not so much smaller than the D7200 pixel to justify the significantly worse DR performance.
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: How would a Canon 5D Mark IV with 80D's photosites perform?
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2016, 12:36:09 am »

I already did that exercise here:

With recent Sony A6300 data available in DxOMark, I have extrapolated how Nikon and Sony new FF iterations (Sony A7R III and Nikon D900?) would compare to this hypothetic Canon 5D Mark IV:

Dynamic Range: Canon 5D Mark IV vs Sony A7R III vs Nikon D900



Regards

www.guillermoluijk.com
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