Which lens is best suited for stitching?

[design_freak]

Which lens is best suited for stitching? I mean the best currently available. I want to use 100 megapixels Digital Back. Purpose - panoramic images of very high resolution. Thank you in advance for your opinions.

[Paul2660]

Which lens is best suited for stitching? I mean the best currently available. I want to use 100 megapixels Digital Back. Purpose - panoramic images of very high resolution. Thank you in advance for your opinions.

If you are using the Phase One Mamiya camera any of the LS glass will do fine.

I have stitched with the 35LS 55LS 80 LS and 75-150.

With modern sticking software you can use the 28 but corner softness may be an issue on pans.

Paul C

[BernardLanguillier]

The plan went south but my intention was to stitch with the Roddy 90mm on an Actus with the IQ3-100.

Cheers,
Bernard

[stevenfr]

I prefer to use the 55, 80, 110 and 150 lenses.

Steven

http://www.friedmanphoto.com

[Joe Towner]

On a technical camera or on an XF?  How are you doing the panorama movements, and how big of a file are you looking to create?  Lots of different glass will work fine, it's more a matter of what focal length do you need to create the image.

What software are you using for the stitching?  What is your intended end result?  How much motion will there be in the frame over all?

For example, I just got done stitching an 11 image pano, but had to kill the bottom half of the frame due to movement in the water preventing the stitch from working.  Plus due to location, I had smog & thermal air issues, so it's not as sharp had it been a clear winter day.

http://gigapan.com/gigapans/188030/

[Theodoros]

For stitching, resolution of the image area used is irrelevant to the aimed resolution... Best way (IMO) is to use a technical camera and rotate it by the nodal point (the entrance pupil) of the lens, if movements are involved, make sure that your camera's up down mechanism is below the tilt one and that the side shift one is below the swing mechanism at the front standard...
 Best way, (additionally to the above) is to convert the lens mounting so that the entrance pupil will be exactly at the center of the tilt mechanism's arc... If all the above are satisfied, you can safely shoot a close range interior architecture with "drop dead" results and even adjust your swing plane to be exactly at half the angle that the image area with respect to image plane creates for each and every shot...

[torger]

You desired field of view and resolution should give you the focal length needed. When we know which focal length you need it's easier to suggest which one is the sharpest.

It's often messy to stitch more than one row, so maybe you should try to have wide enough field of view so you capture the full height of the panorama with one shot, possibly with the sensor in portrait orientation.

[design_freak]

Which lens is best suited for stitching? I mean the best currently available. I want to use 100 megapixels Digital Back. Purpose - panoramic images of very high resolution. Thank you in advance for your opinions.

It is 20 m to the object. The photo shows the building environment. It is not important how much the environment will be in the picture, are important dimensions of the output file. ( File dimension: 3m x 20 m in photographic quality (300 dpi)

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

It is 20 m to the object. The photo shows the building environment. It is not important how much the environment will be in the picture, are important dimensions of the output file. ( File dimension: 3m x 20 m in photographic quality (300 dpi)

Those are serious requirements. Let look at it this way, 3m high at 300 PPI equals a 35,433 pixels image height (and 20 m width @ 300 PPI equals 2,362,205 pixels!). The IQ3 100MP has 11608 pixels height in portrait orientation, which would require  a minimum of 4 rows with something a bit more than 20% overlap. Alternatively, but that's possibly more work, 5 rows with the camera in landscape orientation. It's usually faster to shoot a single row with more shots than more rows with fewer horizontal shots.

For a natural perspective: FocalLength = SensorWidth x SubjectDistance / SubjectWidth.
In your case it is easier to calculate with height because the height of you subject is easier to estimate, so then the formula becomes: FocalLength = SensorHeight x SubjectDistance / SubjectHeight.

Which for a normal portrait orientation sensor means that,
FocalLength = 53.7 mm x 20 metres / SubjectHeight in metres.

So if you know the vertical height of the subject you are shooting, e.g. 40 metres high (=13-16 floors) at 20 metres distance, the normal focal length would need to be 26.85 mm, but if you shoot in 4 rows, you'd need something like a 100 - 110 mm lens.

For other subject sizes, or for a not natural perspective, the assumptions and the required focal length will obviously change.

This is a bit of an on-a-napkin calculation, because things also depend on the projection used for stichtching, and if people come as close as reading distance, the perspective will also change and you might want to use shorter focal lengths which would cover more of a vertical Field of View. It also depends how the shot is made, under which angle it is shot.

Also, depending on the projection used for stitching, you might need more shots in the corners, and thus add rows.

As said by others, once you know the type of focal length needed, it may be easier to choose which one is sharpest (mostly in the center due to overlapping pano tiles).

Cheers,
Bart

[Christopher]

May I ask why 300 ? I mean at that size, well, even at a4 print the difference between 150 and 300 is only visible if you are really good.

I would be interested in how it is presented, as I know of know printer which neededs that resolution at that size.


Christopher Hauser
ch@chauser.eu

[BernardLanguillier]

My next project may be a 12m wide mural that the owner wants "incredibly detailed".

First proof of concept shows that a 1.5gigapixel stitch from D810 with the Leica R 180mm f2.8 APO at 140dpi is doable.

Cheers,
Bernard

[narikin]

For stitching, resolution of the image area used is irrelevant to the aimed resolution... Best way (IMO) is to use a technical camera and rotate it by the nodal point (the entrance pupil) of the lens, if movements are involved, make sure that your camera's up down mechanism is below the tilt one and that the side shift one is below the swing mechanism at the front standard...
 Best way, (additionally to the above) is to convert the lens mounting so that the entrance pupil will be exactly at the center of the tilt mechanism's arc... If all the above are satisfied, you can safely shoot a close range interior architecture with "drop dead" results and even adjust your swing plane to be exactly at half the angle that the image area with respect to image plane creates for each and every shot...

IMHO the best way to stitch is use a technical camera with LLS - Lens Locked Stitching. The lens is the component mounted to the tripod, and the camera + back simply moves to capture sections of that totally unchanged image circle. Everything lines up perfectly for stitching with no distortion correction or pushing/pulling of pixels. The best way for absolute quality, assuming a 4/6way stitch gives you the size of file you want.

Best combo for this would be a Yellow banded Rodenstock 90mm HRSW (the Otus of MF lenses) at f8, on a Phase One IQ3100 100mp back.  This could be on something like an Alpa Max/XY or equivalent Arca/Cambo, but they must have a tripod mount to lock the lens, not the camera body.  Shoot LLCs to correct any lens color casts.

You did post this in MF forum, so I assume that is what you were asking about, not Gigapan type solutions with 35mm cameras. Good luck.

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

You did post this in MF forum, so I assume that is what you were asking about, not Gigapan type solutions with 35mm cameras.

Hi,

I suppose the reason that the OP was in this forum, is because an IQ3 100MP is involved, and the best suitable lens for that was sought ...

I do not see how the specified requirements (3m high x 20m wide @300PPI) can be met by shifting (unless upsampling and serious cropping would be allowed). Rotations of the camera around the entrance pupil of the lens seem unavoidable.

I do wonder about the required output resolution a bit, like Christopher does. Maybe the project needs some better specifications, e.g. about minimum viewing distance but also the type of effect one is trying to achieve, the subject matter (flat surface or does it have depth?), the mounting strategy, etc. etc.

It's not too difficult to calculate the requirements to meet the specifications, but some time needs to be spent on the specifications themselves as well.

Cheers,
Bart

[kers]

Last year i made a perfect composed image involving about 500shots that were absolutely necessary.
It was made with various digital techniques, like stitching HDR and focusstacking. Made with a d810 and a 50mm lens.
It turned out that a 100px/inch print would have been about 8 x 16 meters and still looks great- evenup close.

funny thing : best place to see the image is on the internet...

http://www.beeld.nu/sa.html
So you do not need a 100MP back- yes only if it involves moving subjects - and i agree with the fact that a shifted stitch will- NOT - contain enough quality, even with a 100MP back.
( sorry i made a mistake the word NOT was missing)

[torger]

For such ultra-high resolution automated stitching (gigapan) seems to be the only feasible solution, and with all automated it seems a bit of waste to use medium format gear, but sure you don't need to wait for as long time for the scan to complete...

[Theodoros]

IMHO the best way to stitch is use a technical camera with LLS - Lens Locked Stitching. The lens is the component mounted to the tripod, and the camera + back simply moves to capture sections of that totally unchanged image circle. Everything lines up perfectly for stitching with no distortion correction or pushing/pulling of pixels. The best way for absolute quality, assuming a 4/6way stitch gives you the size of file you want.

Best combo for this would be a Yellow banded Rodenstock 90mm HRSW (the Otus of MF lenses) at f8, on a Phase One IQ3100 100mp back.  This could be on something like an Alpa Max/XY or equivalent Arca/Cambo, but they must have a tripod mount to lock the lens, not the camera body.  Shoot LLCs to correct any lens color casts.

You did post this in MF forum, so I assume that is what you were asking about, not Gigapan type solutions with 35mm cameras. Good luck.

You don't seem to have fully understand "my" method... The lens (plane) is not locked, but the entrance pupil position of the lens IS... The advantages when compared to what you describe above (which is the "easy" thing to do - what "everybody" does too) are several and of most importance for the result... here are some...

1. You only use the center part of the lens, irrespective to the size of the image area.
2. You can use movements to correct the perspective
3. You can use a telephoto lens and create as much of AOV as you wish...
4. Stitching is as accurate (per pixel) as it can be and thus sharpness maximizes
5. You can "control" the DOF by swinging the lens board between shots
5. Resolution is optically maximized, but it can be as much as you want irrespective of the type, or the format, or the pixel count of the sensor used...

and many-many more advantages (like that you can shoot the lens too in different positions by shifting it too, other than shifting the image area only) which will take the size of a book to explain here...

But mind you... all this requires a view camera that one can position the entrance pupil of the lens at exactly the center of the (hypothetical) circle of which the tilt circle is an arc of the perimeter and additionally that the camera is correctly designed having all its shift and up - down movements bellow the respective tilt and swing ones (other wise one can't combine movements without inducing (geometrical) distortions)...

You see... when messing with a (one of the (very few) correctly designed) technical camera, the benefits that one adds to his work exceed by a good margin the benefits that another back or a (better) lens can offer...

As a wise old prophet would say... "the correct method combined with skills and creativity, will always beat the inferior method no matter the quality of the peripherals"...   

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

For such ultra-high resolution automated stitching (gigapan) seems to be the only feasible solution, and with all automated it seems a bit of waste to use medium format gear, but sure you don't need to wait for as long time for the scan to complete...

That's a benefit of using a 100MP back, it takes fewer tiles/rows to stitch, and that speed gain during capture also reduces the chance of subjects/clouds moving between rows.

The possibility to use rear movements to control perspective can help, but then needs a good Panostitcher like PTGUI, because e.g. Photoshop (besides being a memory hog) will usually get confused if the image tiles are not centered around the optical axis (requiring to add additional canvas space to compensate).

Cheers,
Bart

[tim wolcott]

I'VE STITCHED WITH EVERY LENSE FROM THE 28MM TO THE 500MM LENSE..   It really depends on what you are shooting and how close it is to the camera.  I built my stitching head since they all suck.  I didn't want to but they all had deficiencies in one way or another.  Stitching should not be done for resolution gain but for creating the best composition.  Tim

[Bart_van_der_Wolf]

Stitching should not be done for resolution gain but for creating the best composition.

Hi Tim,

What's wrong with using it for both? While I like stitching because it gives a lot of compositional freedom (the subject defines the composition, not the sensor's aspect ratio), it also works perfectly fine for increasing resolution ...

Cheers,
Bart

[torger]

If we look at photography as an artistic process, stitching can impact it negatively, but it's entirely up to the photographer's mindset.

I prefer to shoot one frame and crop as little as possible, thus I use more lenses than most just to have many framings to choose from. I don't use stitching at all (any longer), but rather use a wider lens and suffer from the lower resolution than messing around with stitching, as to me it hurts the artistic process. Being old-school I like the image to be as finished as possible single-shot in camera at the actual scene, and leave as little as possible of the creative process to post-processing. An opposite approach is equally valid though, but we all have our preferences.

As far as I understand in the case discussed here stitching is unavoidable as a special type of ultra-high resolution print is the intended end product.