Printao 8 not working with certain roll papers & other issues. Any experience?

[weddje]

Hi,

I print with the Epson SC P800 on hahnemuhle photo rag bright white roll paper.
In the Printao8 package there is no option to select roll as a source. According to printao8 this is because the Epson driver doesn't provide this option. According to Epson it is possible to print in this paper with the roll. I'm confused!
Printing multiple images on roll paper was the main reason to buy Printao8.
Also I created smart collection in Lightroom for my images to print. These collections don't show up in printao8. I've asked support, but haven't gotten back to me yet.
I can't create my own templates either.

Anyone have experience?
Thanks in advance
Joost

[Mark D Segal]

Nonsense. There are all kinds of options for using roll paper in the Epson driver for the P800. Activate the Print Module in LR, go to Page Set-Up and scroll through the papers with their associated drop-downs and you will see them. Select one of them, then go to Print Settings and you will see the choice of roll paper mentioned in the Print Settings menu. In the Epson driver, the choice of roll or sheet in Page Set-up is independent of the choice of Media Type in Printer Settings. You are correct that the latest version of PrinTao 8 does not provide a roll sourcing for the P800 printer, at least not on the front page where one does the set-up. But the reason cannot be not the Epson driver as the roll options are there - Epson didn't provide a roll-holder so it couldn't be used. You can set-up your custom layouts in Lightroom's Print Module and print directly from there.

[Mark D Segal]

Nonsense. There are all kinds of options for using roll paper in the Epson driver for the P800. Activate the Print Module in LR, go to Page Set-Up and scroll through the papers with their associated drop-downs and you will see them. Select one of them, then go to Print Settings and you will see the choice of roll paper mentioned in the Print Settings menu. In the Epson driver, the choice of roll or sheet in Page Set-up is independent of the choice of Media Type in Printer Settings. You are correct that the latest version of PrinTao 8 does not provide a roll sourcing for the P800 printer, at least not on the front page where one does the set-up. But the reason cannot be not the Epson driver as the roll options are there - Epson didn't provide a roll-holder so it couldn't be used. You can set-up your custom layouts in Lightroom's Print Module and print directly from there.

Further poking around in PrinTao 8 with the P800 printer - there are some media types for which the roll paper option does appear in the Paper Source drop-down menu and other Media Types for which it does not. For example, in the Epson papers, if you select Premium Luster Photo paper, you get the roll option. If you select Velvet Fine Art paper you don't. I.E., some Epson Media Types support roll paper in PrinTao and others do not; most likely this relates to whether Epson makes rolls for the specific Media Type in question. PrinTao 8 does provide the option to install non-Epson papers in the Media library, and I did successfully install the Hahnemuhle package and the paper you are using, (Photo Rag Bright White paper); but having selected that paper, in the paper source there is no roll option. As you have such a roll of paper, clearly it exists and this something I suggest you raise with PrinTao tech support - unless I have missed some other way of getting it to recognize rolls for that media type - if that exists they should tell you where, and do let us know. 

[weddje]

Mark, thank you for your reply.

I've contacted Printao's tech support. They explained that Epson's driver doesn't define the "roll paper" as a source feed for certain papers such as the hahnemuhle bright white. So they can't have this option in the Printao software.
I'm trying to get my head around this. So why did Epson leave this roll feed option out for certain papers? Or didn't they? Epson tech support told me that roll papers up to 1.5mm thick can be printed on the P800 but couldn't tell me anything on how third party papers work within the driver. So is Printao not providing this option or a work around? Like you said Mark, in lightroom you can select 'roll' as a feed source. But you don't have and option to select hahnemuhle papers. Instead I selected mediatype: Ultra premium presentation matte because this resembles the HM bright white paper the closest (I guess). So I can print on HM bright white paper from lightroom from the roll.

I did try to add custom media type in Printao with epson canvas matte as base paper and the HM bright white icc profile. I can print, but the colours look faded. Printao tech support told me they couldn't offer any advice on this.

[howardm]

The Epson (and Canon etcetc) printer drivers ONLY know about their own papers so you will NEVER see any Hahn. or Canson or whatever paper as a choice in the Epson driver.  The way the system works is that if you use a 3rd party paper, you download the appropriate color profile from the mfgr and associated w/ that profile is additional information about which Epson 'base media' to use (that *is* defined in the driver).

So, you'd find what the base media for Hahn Bright White is and when you choose that paper in the driver (assuming that it is available from Epson in roll format), you'll be able to select roll.  If not, you won't.  You can get around this by having a custom profile made from a different base media.

All that said, in looking at the profile for the PR Bright White, it's based on Epson Velvet Fine Art which is *NOT* available in rolls.  That is why you can't select it.  I've heard their Somerset Velvet is very similar so you could try selecting that.

I've had situations such as Hot Press Bright where if I truly select that, I can't print small 5x7's in my 3880 because HPB is defined only for the rear feed which has size limitations.  I got around that by redoing the HPB profile based on UltraPrem. Pres. Matte which can go in either feed.

So there is nothing really wrong w/ PrintTao, it's just operating on the information that the driver is giving it.  If you really want to use PRBrightWhite on rolls, you will need to try the Somerset as a base and/or get a custom profile done.

[Mark D Segal]

Mark, thank you for your reply.

I've contacted Printao's tech support. They explained that Epson's driver doesn't define the "roll paper" as a source feed for certain papers such as the hahnemuhle bright white. So they can't have this option in the Printao software.
I'm trying to get my head around this. So why did Epson leave this roll feed option out for certain papers? Or didn't they? Epson tech support told me that roll papers up to 1.5mm thick can be printed on the P800 but couldn't tell me anything on how third party papers work within the driver. So is Printao not providing this option or a work around? Like you said Mark, in lightroom you can select 'roll' as a feed source. But you don't have and option to select hahnemuhle papers. Instead I selected mediatype: Ultra premium presentation matte because this resembles the HM bright white paper the closest (I guess). So I can print on HM bright white paper from lightroom from the roll.

I did try to add custom media type in Printao with epson canvas matte as base paper and the HM bright white icc profile. I can print, but the colours look faded. Printao tech support told me they couldn't offer any advice on this.

As the Epson driver only includes Epson papers, of course it will have nothing to say about Hahn papers; but that is all irrelevant because PrinTao 8 does not depend on the Epson driver. For the printer functions it supports, it operates independently of OEM printer drivers. As I mentioned above, the problem you are having appears that PrinTao 8 has not included the roll option for the P800/Hahn roll paper you are using. This to me looks like a programming oversight.

If you print from LR, then you are depending on the Epson driver. In this case, the key to correct results is to select the Media Type in the Epson driver that is the same as the Epson Media Type to which Hahnemuhle has keyed its profile for your paper, which as Howard mentions above is Velvet Fine Art paper. This selection of Media Type for colour management purposes has absolutely nothing to do with whether Velvet Fine Art is available in rolls or sheets - that consideration is irrelevant in this context. The attached screen grab shows that if you select roll paper in Page Set-Up and Velvet Fine Art in Printer Settings, LR will respect both instructions, and this is the fit you need for your Hahn paper. Try it and let us know if it works.

[Ernst Dinkla]

The Epson (and Canon etcetc) printer drivers ONLY know about their own papers so you will NEVER see any Hahn. or Canson or whatever paper as a choice in the Epson driver.  The way the system works is that if you use a 3rd party paper, you download the appropriate color profile from the mfgr and associated w/ that profile is additional information about which Epson 'base media' to use (that *is* defined in the driver).

The "(and Canon etcetc)" is not correct. On the HP drivers we can install media presets for third party papers made by the third parties themselves. Hahnemühle, Innova, Canson, Ilford and possibly more. On Epson drivers you can not. I am not that familiar enough with a Canon printer driver but I recall that it was also a bit more friendly for third party papers than a general Epson driver is.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[howardm]

You're right, on some of the Canon's there is a mechanism to add similar information.

[weddje]

Thank you mr Howard for your clarification.
As I understand, I have to pick a base base paper in Printao8. The somerset paper is not available. The only (matte) base paper with the roll feed option is  Ultra premium presentation matte. How do modify or create the icc profile for this. Or where can I read into this?

@Mark, I have no issues printing from lightroom. I want to use the printao8 software because I need to print multiple images at the same time from roll paper. The printao software simplifies this proces and has good potential. In lightroom I can't seem to find out how to this would work.

@Ernst, thanks for that input. Sounds like HP is customer friendly. Too bad Epson doesn't have that option.

[Mark D Segal]

The "(and Canon etcetc)" is not correct. On the HP drivers we can install media presets for third party papers made by the third parties themselves. Hahnemühle, Innova, Canson, Ilford and possibly more. On Epson drivers you can not. I am not that familiar enough with a Canon printer driver but I recall that it was also a bit more friendly for third party papers than a general Epson driver is.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

Hi Ernst, yes, in the Canon Pro-1000 driver it is possible to register third party papers.

[Mark D Segal]

Thank you mr Howard for your clarification.
As I understand, I have to pick a base base paper in Printao8. The somerset paper is not available. The only (matte) base paper with the roll feed option is  Ultra premium presentation matte. How do modify or create the icc profile for this. Or where can I read into this?

@Mark, I have no issues printing from lightroom. I want to use the printao8 software because I need to print multiple images at the same time from roll paper. The printao software simplifies this proces and has good potential. In lightroom I can't seem to find out how to this would work.

@Ernst, thanks for that input. Sounds like HP is customer friendly. Too bad Epson doesn't have that option.

Let me re-clarify yet again - the Epson driver has nothing to do with what you can print from PrinTao. PrinTao does not work on the basis of selecting a "base paper". If a paper can be included in the PrinTao Mediatek you load it and use it directly without being concerned about "base papers" or Media Types. The fact that a supported Hahnemuhle paper does not come equipped in PrinTao with its roll format would be something they should fix if true.

However, workarounds are likely doable. If you want to use PrinTao with your Hahnemuhle paper you should also use the profile that PrinTao provides for that paper. But there being no roll option for that paper and you wand PrinTao to work as if it using a roll, I suppose you could create a custom profile by printing the profiling target onto the Hahnemuhle paper specifying Epson Enhanced Matte as the Media Type; to do this, use the Adobe Color Print Utility which is designed for that task. Then load the custom profile into PrinTao, in PrinTao select Enhanced Matte Roll and your custom profile, load up the Hahnmuhle paper, print and see what happens.

However, if you want to avoid workarounds, in Lightroom in Page Set-Up, for example a pano format (but valid for any format) you can generate page dimensions as you wish, for printing use the custom print layout option at the top right of the Print Interface (see attached screen grab, red arrow) and populate the sheet laid-out however you like. See attached screen grab for an example I just put together for you.

[Ernst Dinkla]

All in all, it ain't Qimage Ultimate + an HP printer.

No Mac choice I know.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

[Mark D Segal]

All in all, it ain't Qimage Ultimate + an HP printer.

No Mac choice I know.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

I hope the OP finds this useful, as I believe there are less extreme, equally satisfactory workarounds than replacing his whole computing environment as good as you find your set-up to be - and I'm not doubting what you say about what works well for you.

[Mark D Segal]

....... The attached screen grab shows that if you select roll paper in Page Set-Up and Velvet Fine Art in Printer Settings, LR will respect both instructions, and this is the fit you need for your Hahn paper. Try it and let us know if it works.

On second thoughts, I would like to reinforce the point in respect of LR that this needs to be tested. While the paper set-up and the Media Type are independent instructions and register as such, there is a warning in the Dialog about the feed to be used for the media selected. They key thing is to see whether this combo prints as intended, so I'll re-iterate the suggestion to try it and let us know whether the printer accepts it. I don't have a roll on hand to test it myself, otherwise I would have.