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Author Topic: McCurry Scandal?  (Read 43657 times)

Rob C

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #80 on: May 31, 2016, 03:17:10 pm »

http://www.dw.com/en/ethical-lapse-photoshop-scandal-catches-up-with-iconic-photojournalist-steve-mccurry/a-19296237

The truth, the truth...

If, as the clip claims, Mr H was the only one to get that close to Ali, then how did William Klein manage to make an intimate movie of the guy?

Truth, the truth...

Rob C

Paulo Bizarro

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #81 on: June 01, 2016, 09:37:18 am »

More interesting thoughts here:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2016/05/steve-mccurry-is-not-an-ahole.html

To me, the problem is with the "trying to get away with it" approach that was taken. And of course now everybody will challenge his previous work, and wonder what he might have added/deleted from his photos. Now he says that today he is a storyteller, not a pj anymore... and so he has more freedom to play with his images. Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

The thing is, again, one of not disclosing a priori his objectives (pj vs. story teller) plus his image manipulations. I still have a great admiration of him and his work, just slightly less so than before... we are all human anyway, and this crusade to crucify him is stupid.

Rob C

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #82 on: June 01, 2016, 10:26:33 am »

If your lookin for truth, look within...

Peter

In some cases, Peter, that doesn't seem to help very much! However, it does add to the rest of the static to be processed!

Rob C

Rob C

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #83 on: June 01, 2016, 10:31:20 am »

More interesting thoughts here:

http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2016/05/steve-mccurry-is-not-an-ahole.html

To me, the problem is with the "trying to get away with it" approach that was taken. And of course now everybody will challenge his previous work, and wonder what he might have added/deleted from his photos. Now he says that today he is a storyteller, not a pj anymore... and so he has more freedom to play with his images. Sounds like a lame excuse to me.

The thing is, again, one of not disclosing a priori his objectives (pj vs. story teller) plus his image manipulations. I still have a great admiration of him and his work, just slightly less so than before... we are all human anyway, and this crusade to crucify him is stupid.


I think that all of these events tend to do one thing: make the old guys appear far better at their jobs than the recent heroes. Don McCullin is still one of those for me, as are many others long gone.

If anything, I admire not only their photographic technique under extreme pressure, but also their dedication to return and to return and to return. Some never came back.

Rob

Ed B

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #84 on: June 05, 2016, 09:01:58 pm »

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Hulyss

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #85 on: June 08, 2016, 08:56:12 am »

Some more ...

http://petapixel.com/2016/06/07/eyes-afghan-girl-critical-take-steve-mccurry-scandal/

I tried quickly the "McCurry's filter" today and it work good. Same amount of errors are left to be close to the real master./



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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #86 on: June 08, 2016, 11:05:15 am »

Some more ...

http://petapixel.com/2016/06/07/eyes-afghan-girl-critical-take-steve-mccurry-scandal/

I tried quickly the "McCurry's filter" today and it work good. Same amount of errors are left to be close to the real master./





This new piece from Petapixel IMO mixes a lot of things in the same bag. Mixes "staging a photo" with the recent PS manipulation of deleting important elements from the images, especially people.

Staging a photo is not a problem in my book, so if SM asked a few people to place themselves in certain places, and reshot a few times to get the image he wanted, it's fine. Wasn't the famous flag at Iwo Jima photo taken more than once?

Hulyss

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2016, 03:52:13 am »

This new piece of petapixel is the nail in the coffin. It is all about hype, lies and money. Those 3 things made McCurry's "legend" but it is just lies. How many photographers developed a passion over what they saw in those NatGeo back in the days ? It is just like propaganda work. Staged photojournalism is utter lie to the mass, utter lies to the purist photogs and utter non sense in the photojournalism discipline.

Some girls do have wonderful eyes who do not need enhancements if you take it in the correct light. So the Afghan girl could have been staged wherever in the Kentucky Like anybody here can stage whatever girl with beautiful eyes... Deception. How some agency will make him pay for the example.

In fashion or portrait it is common to edit at least the skin defaults and it is well known to a certain extent. In photojournalism in my book this is or should be forbidden.

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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #88 on: June 09, 2016, 04:39:38 am »

I would not be so strict. Lets take the example of the train station photo with the porter and the woman with the child. Yes, it was staged, but is it a lie? To me, no. It is a scene that can be seen everyday in an train station in India. Cleaning up a bit the eyes of the Afghan girl? Come on, what is the problem?

Hulyss

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #89 on: June 09, 2016, 05:29:37 am »

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RSL

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #90 on: June 09, 2016, 08:25:05 am »

Then there was Doisneau, who staged most of his "street" pictures. But no one seems to mind.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #91 on: June 09, 2016, 09:32:25 am »

Then there was Doisneau, who staged most of his "street" pictures. But no one seems to mind.

And many others, but then they were not acting as journalists/reporters. What's more, AFAIK National Geographic does not claim to be a news agency that reports on actual news events. That's different from e.g. Fox 'News' who do suggest to be a news agency where they basically are a propaganda machine that has been forced many times to correct their infotainment/propaganda.

The NG Website's 'About' says (emphasis in bold is mine):
Quote
About National Geographic

National Geographic gets you closer to the stories that matter. Through the world’s best scientists, photographers, journalists, and filmmakers, National Geographic captivates and entertains a global community through television channels, magazines, children’s media, travel expeditions, books, maps, consumer products, location-based entertainment and experiences, and some of the most engaging digital and social media platforms in the world. A joint venture with 21st Century Fox, National Geographic reinvests 27% of proceeds to help fund the conservation and education efforts of the National Geographic Society.

The only confusion possible, but only for naive viewers, is that they occasionally also use established journalists/reporters known from other (News) media, for the purpose of entertaining.

The same silliness as with their wildlife movies/videos where animals are personalized and given human emotions instead of instincts, and stories are told that took many years of shooting and a lot of editing, to suggest something that happens in a few minutes time, supposedly with the same animal in sight.

People who feel betrayed are correct, but they fooled themselves.

Only factual reporting by journalists should be considered as unedited beyond basic exposure and color correction, and the editor of the publication is to make sure of that unaltered authenticity. And yes, I know, shooting/cropping only part of a scene is also editing and the angle of view also suggests things by the perspective it produces, but that's where multiple reports of an event can separate the frauds from the masters.

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2016, 10:02:59 am »

I do not know much about NG history, but I doubt they've been perceived as an "entertainment" machine, not until recently, at least. If anything, I, for one, have always thought of them as the authority in truethful, trustful, and factual story telling. Naive, perhaps, but I believe millions world wide shared my view.

RSL

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #93 on: June 09, 2016, 10:27:45 am »

You're right, Bart. Fox is biased, but probably not as biased as AP or AFP or Reuters. Fact is, every news source is biased. That's always been true and always will be true. Even (even?) Snopes -- the great truth source -- is biased. National Geographic is biased. So what? People have opinions, often (usually) unsupported opinions, and their opinions are going to come through in their work. It's the way the world works. The unfortunate part is that most of these "unbiased" news sources are biased toward the left. In the long run that's gonna cost all of us Western worlders.
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AlterEgo

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #94 on: June 09, 2016, 10:37:59 am »

I would not be so strict. Lets take the example of the train station photo with the porter and the woman with the child. Yes, it was staged, but is it a lie? To me, no. It is a scene that can be seen everyday in an train station in India. Cleaning up a bit the eyes of the Afghan girl? Come on, what is the problem?

and why you need to stage that or edit something then ? why do you need to clean up a bit the eyes of the Afghan girl ? why ? what is the purpose ask youself... to invoke something that did not actually exist or will not cause any feelings absent that staging / correction ? to make it a propaganda slogan instead of a fact ?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #95 on: June 09, 2016, 11:27:06 am »

You're right, Bart. Fox is biased, but probably not as biased as AP or AFP or Reuters.

Well Russ, biased doesn't come close to describing it, they're in the entertainment business (with a very strong Republican propaganda twist), not news. Remember this, with in the ticker at the bottom a next warm up for allowing more government control, spreading FUD to soften the opinions on Govenment's expanding control over peoples privacy.

Less damaging, but still funny (especially for someone like me who grew up near Amsterdam) is this one with a followup here. He blames everything on "the left", rather than admitting he is wrong (again).

Quote
Fact is, every news source is biased. That's always been true and always will be true.

There is a difference between bias and deliberately being wrong for (sponsored) propaganda reasons.

Quote
Even (even?) Snopes -- the great truth source -- is biased. National Geographic is biased. So what?

A bias is to be expected (i.e. don't be naive), e.g. by the choice of subjects or the people who are interviewed (and those who aren't), but not doing proper fact checking and letting 'lunatics' spread their message (because it suits 'the agenda') as if it were factual news, borders on deception, unless it's seen as entertainment.

Quote
People have opinions, often (usually) unsupported opinions, and their opinions are going to come through in their work. It's the way the world works. The unfortunate part is that most of these "unbiased" news sources are biased toward the left. In the long run that's gonna cost all of us Western worlders.

I suppose that depends on one's perspective. From where I come from (you know, Bill O'Reilly's cesspool), the average Left wing American Democrat is considered pretty conservative compared to what we call Left wing. We have more to worry about the ultra-right Neo-Facist factions that are more vocal than their real electorate, but they do influence (poorly informed) public opinion.

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #96 on: June 09, 2016, 12:21:55 pm »

RSL

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #97 on: June 09, 2016, 01:56:21 pm »


I suppose that depends on one's perspective. From where I come from (you know, Bill O'Reilly's cesspool), the average Left wing American Democrat is considered pretty conservative compared to what we call Left wing. We have more to worry about the ultra-right Neo-Facist factions that are more vocal than their real electorate, but they do influence (poorly informed) public opinion.

Cheers,
Bart

Actually I think the thing you probably ought to worry about is the U.S. left-wing castrating our military and our ability to protect Europe from the developing Muslim invasion. We're pretty close to a point where thanks to the cost of our Socialism we won't be able to afford that any longer. As usual, the Netherlands will be one of the first to go under.
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #98 on: June 09, 2016, 02:30:50 pm »

Let's see, TheBlaze according to Wikipedia (one has to strart somewhere, right?):
Quote
TheBlaze is a multiplatform news and entertainment network available on television, radio and the Internet founded by conservative talk radio personality and entrepreneur Glenn Beck.

Which sems to correspond to what their website has to say after a lot of digging.

Okay, that sets the stage a bit, because there is little info on their website as to determine 'from which direction the wind blows'. Now, was that in their News part, or their Entertainment part of business.

Funnily enough, as if a websearch is any good at giving a balanced weighting, this appears to have gotten much more coverage in the USA, what seems to be mostly amongst right wing religious oriented websites and bloggers (hmmm, agenda's anyone?). In other countries it barely made the news outside the local Wupperthal papers in 2014, because it was an attempt to create attention for the Salafist movement that also recruits young people for e.g. Syria. Free publicity in the USA, but much less here in Europe.

The newspapers here, in 'O'Reilly's proclaimed cesspool', deal with other issues, like in this (poorly translated) article (don't know if it is geo-blocked) about recent convictions for recruitment and financing of Jihad fighters.

Maybe some of us are too sober minded to get drawn into providing those people with a platform. The ringleaders are dangerous and smart, no doubt about that, but do also look at solutions instead of only sending them a confirmation of what they are trying to provoke, repression which confirms that they are being discriminated against, and justifies them declaring 'war' on the infidel. Some Salafists also hate other Muslims, they are a pretty intolerant lot.

So again, a good example of why one should not have blind faith in any News medium, and certainly not in those who pretend to be a News medium. Many false, eh, prophets.

Sorry, no photo's to go with this story, although Slobodan's linked image did make me smile (such an obvious provocation to get into the news, and it worked).

Cheers,
Bart
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: McCurry Scandal?
« Reply #99 on: June 09, 2016, 02:54:16 pm »

...Slobodan's linked image did make me smile...

Glad you see that as a joke. One who laughs last... ;)

On a side note, there is this constant inclination to dismiss facts based on the source of reporting. A version of ad hominem?
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