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Author Topic: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?  (Read 5860 times)

AndrewMcD

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xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« on: March 29, 2016, 02:44:12 pm »

Long before xrite came along, there used to be an upgrade to allow owners of the i1Display monitor calibration tool to buy the additional bits to create printer profiles. I find their website obtuse at best, but it seems like if I buy i1Photo Pro I'm basically duplicating my purchase of the i1Display Pro along with the rest of the package.

Am I wrong?
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digitaldog

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #1 on: March 29, 2016, 02:52:04 pm »

There's no upgrade path for that hardware to create printer profiles. It's a colorimeter.
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AlterEgo

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #2 on: March 29, 2016, 02:58:13 pm »

Am I wrong?
as noted above - i1Display Pro is a colorimeter (can't read/record spectrum) and you want a spectrophotometer (spectrometer) = i1Pro2... you can buy hardware (spectrophotometer) separately and use a 3rd party software, unless you like X-Rite software so much... with a 3rd party software you can even get used i1Pro (of a proper revision) off ebay or i1Pro's rebranded as EFI ... there is also a Colormunki Photo spectrometer from X-Rite, but it is somewhat crippled device
« Last Edit: March 29, 2016, 03:01:46 pm by AlterEgo »
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AndrewMcD

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #3 on: March 29, 2016, 05:02:40 pm »

There's no upgrade path for that hardware to create printer profiles. It's a colorimeter.

I wasn't clear on my question.

What I was asking is whether the i1Photo Pro *INCLUDES* i1Display Pro.

I can't quite tell from the xrite website, but, I get the feeling that it does. Or, at least, it used to, and there used to be a discount to buy the additional hardware.
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digitaldog

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2016, 05:03:41 pm »

What I was asking is whether the i1Photo Pro *INCLUDES* i1Display Pro.
NO.
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AlterEgo

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2016, 05:22:51 pm »

I wasn't clear on my question.

What I was asking is whether the i1Photo Pro *INCLUDES* i1Display Pro.

I can't quite tell from the xrite website, but, I get the feeling that it does. Or, at least, it used to, and there used to be a discount to buy the additional hardware.

you can always try to call something like B&H and see if they can give you some discount on i1DisplayPro colorimeter (device) if you are buying one of x-rite spectrophotometer packages they sell... they have sales of i1DisplayPro on somewhat regular basis
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Doug Gray

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2016, 05:36:53 pm »

I wasn't clear on my question.

What I was asking is whether the i1Photo Pro *INCLUDES* i1Display Pro.

I can't quite tell from the xrite website, but, I get the feeling that it does. Or, at least, it used to, and there used to be a discount to buy the additional hardware.

I1Photo Pro comes with an I1 Pro 2 Spectrophotometer/radiometer and can profile both printers and displays. It does not also include an I1 colorimeter. Colorimeters are more limited and can only profile monitors and are somewhat sensitive to differing back light spectra.
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Mac Mahon

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2016, 05:39:26 pm »

I wasn't clear on my question.

What I was asking is whether the i1Photo Pro *INCLUDES* i1Display Pro.


No it doesn't.  The device in the i1PhotoPro package is a spectrophotometer.  i1DiplayPro is a colorimeter.  The colorimeter is built to profile/calibrate monitors only, and cannot be used on print.  On the other hand, the spectro can be used to profile both printer and monitor, although the colorimeter does a better job on the monitor especially in the shadow end of the tonal range.

My 2¢

Tim
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AlterEgo

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2016, 05:58:27 pm »

Colorimeters are more limited and can only profile monitors and are somewhat sensitive to differing back light spectra.
however they are more precise near blacks /for a monitor/ (vs consumer level spectrophotometers like i1Pro2) and you can use a spectrophotometer to create calibration files (matrix or spectrum) for software to use along with colorimeter for your particular panel... certain software comes with some generic calibration files or for example NEC SpectraView II comes with calibration files for at least some of their monitors.
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Lundberg02

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2016, 07:33:09 pm »

Argyll offers the ArgyllPro Color Meter software for Android devices that turns your tablet or smartphone into an emissive meter you can carry around with your i1 Disply Pro plugged into it (with the USB adapter you have to buy separately). The User Guide is not too helpful, and the app is 99 bucks, but it gives you the color temperature of anything emissive you point the i1 at, i e your desklamp, the window, your floor lamp, your LED flashlight, a laser reflection( DO NOT point laser at device). I usually don't buy overpriced sw, but this is cool. I noticed that the i1 diffuser reduces the CT by about 50 K. Also , it will warn you if too close to source.
Argyll would sell a lot more downloads at 50 bucks, I think. It turns your colorimeter into a very capable lightmeter. And it's fun.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2016, 02:28:35 am by Lundberg02 »
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digitaldog

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2016, 08:04:35 pm »

however they are more precise near blacks /for a monitor/ (vs consumer level spectrophotometers like i1Pro2) and you can use a spectrophotometer to create calibration files (matrix or spectrum) for software to use along with colorimeter for your particular panel... certain software comes with some generic calibration files or for example NEC SpectraView II comes with calibration files for at least some of their monitors.
Yup, a Colorimeter is (using a generalizations if you will) a preferable instrument for this task:
http://www.lumita.com/site_media/work/whitepapers/files/xrite-wp-3a.pdf
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Doug Gray

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2016, 11:38:37 am »

Yup, a Colorimeter is (using a generalizations if you will) a preferable instrument for this task:
http://www.lumita.com/site_media/work/whitepapers/files/xrite-wp-3a.pdf

A very good paper describing the limitations of both spectros and colorimeters.

Significantly higher noise at low luminance levels is indeed a limitation of spectrophotometers. They are worse at accurately measuring light at low luminance levels for reasons outlined in the article. OTOH, they are worse at measuring a monitor's white point without an accurate color correction matrix that varies based mostly on the spectral characteristics of the monitor's backlight. This was less of an issue in the past with phosphor based CRTs but with various LED and CFL based LCD backlights is more of a problem.

Argyll has a particularly good solution if you have both a spectro and colorimeter. You can use the spectro to measure the whitepoint color and then, using the colorimeter one can obtain a color correction matrix that will match the colorimeter to that backlight spectrum. Then the colorimeter can be used for profiling with it's advantage of better low luminance accuracy. Best of both worlds.

You can also use a color correction matrix that has already been determined to apply to a specific model monitor if one only has a colorimeter.

http://www.argyllcms.com/doc/ccxxmake.html
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digitaldog

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2016, 11:40:00 am »

Argyll has a particularly good solution if you have both a spectro and colorimeter. You can use the spectro to measure the whitepoint color and then, using the colorimeter one can obtain a color correction matrix that will match the colorimeter to that backlight spectrum.
You can easily do the same with SpectraView and probably other products.
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AlterEgo

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2016, 11:46:49 am »

You can easily do the same with SpectraView and probably other products.
a question - where exactly in SpectraView II (not that EU version of BasicColor Display) you have this option to generate correction matrices (that requires you to hook up both spectrophotometer and colorimeter, in sequence, to the same panel) for colorimeters ?
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digitaldog

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2016, 11:51:27 am »

a question - where exactly in SpectraView II (not that EU version of BasicColor Display) you have this option to generate correction matrices (that requires you to hook up both spectrophotometer and colorimeter, in sequence, to the same panel) for colorimeters ?
Old text, copy and paste so forgive the names of older devices:



How to use an iOne Pro/Monitor to create an offset for an iOne Display / DTP94 when calibrating the LCD2690WUXi


Background:


The iOne Pro is much better at measuring color on wide gamut displays than the iOne Display or DTP94. However it suffers from noise and drift at low luminance which makes it somewhat unsuitable for creating a perfect greyscale. The iOne Display and DTP94 may give white point errors due to the nature of the wide color gamut display, but are much better at measuring low luminance.


The two devices can be used in combination to create a correction offset which will lead to much better results. This involves first calibrating the display with the iOne Pro/Monitor, measuring the resulting white point with the iOne Display / DTP94 and creating a new target based on that measured white point.


Steps:


1. Connect the iOne Pro/Monitor
2. Select the desired Target in SpectraView and calibrate the display.
3. Confirm that the calibrated white point is acceptable (judge 100% white only).
4. Disconnect the iOne Pro/Monitor and connect the iOne Display / DTP94.
5. Open the SpectraView Preferences dialog.
6. Re-detect the color sensor.
7. Change the "Primary Colors Chromaticity Source" to "Factory Measurement"
8. Click OK.


Next you will create a new Target with a custom white point that has been adjusted with the offset between the two devices:


1. In SpectraView, click the "Edit Target settings" icon.
2. Click the "Edit..." button in the "White Point" group.
3. Click the "Measure" button and measure the white patch on the screen using the iOne Display / DTP94.
4. The CIE xy values should be filled in automatically.
5. Click OK.
6. Click OK.
7. Enter a new name for the Target file.
8. Make sure the new Target is selected, and calibrate using the iOne Display / DTP94.


The white point should match what you got with the iOne Pro/Monitor, and the greyscale should be much better.



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AlterEgo

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2016, 12:00:17 pm »

Old text, copy and paste so forgive the names of older devices:



How to use an iOne Pro/Monitor to create an offset for an iOne Display / DTP94 when calibrating the LCD2690WUXi


Background:


The iOne Pro is much better at measuring color on wide gamut displays than the iOne Display or DTP94. However it suffers from noise and drift at low luminance which makes it somewhat unsuitable for creating a perfect greyscale. The iOne Display and DTP94 may give white point errors due to the nature of the wide color gamut display, but are much better at measuring low luminance.


The two devices can be used in combination to create a correction offset which will lead to much better results. This involves first calibrating the display with the iOne Pro/Monitor, measuring the resulting white point with the iOne Display / DTP94 and creating a new target based on that measured white point.


Steps:


1. Connect the iOne Pro/Monitor
2. Select the desired Target in SpectraView and calibrate the display.
3. Confirm that the calibrated white point is acceptable (judge 100% white only).
4. Disconnect the iOne Pro/Monitor and connect the iOne Display / DTP94.
5. Open the SpectraView Preferences dialog.
6. Re-detect the color sensor.
7. Change the "Primary Colors Chromaticity Source" to "Factory Measurement"
8. Click OK.


Next you will create a new Target with a custom white point that has been adjusted with the offset between the two devices:


1. In SpectraView, click the "Edit Target settings" icon.
2. Click the "Edit..." button in the "White Point" group.
3. Click the "Measure" button and measure the white patch on the screen using the iOne Display / DTP94.
4. The CIE xy values should be filled in automatically.
5. Click OK.
6. Click OK.
7. Enter a new name for the Target file.
8. Make sure the new Target is selected, and calibrate using the iOne Display / DTP94.


The white point should match what you got with the iOne Pro/Monitor, and the greyscale should be much better.

I see - so this can't be done in SpectraView alone (because I was thinking I missed such option) like Argyll can do (conveniently through DisplayCAL GUI interface) - I mean generate ccmx ( correction matrix ) or ccss (calibration spectral sample)... I think it is better to use agryll to make ccss and then feed the data to SpectraView's .edr files (translated) - shall be much more elegant solution (unless NEC's .edr are better than you can do on your own)... I think we need to ask Grame to add a reverse functionality - now Argyll can do edr to ccmx/ccss, but not ccss to edr (I think so)...
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digitaldog

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2016, 12:04:24 pm »

I see - so this can't be done in SpectraView alone (because I was thinking I missed such option) like Argyll can do (conveniently through DisplayCAL GUI interface) - I mean generate ccmx ( correction matrix ) or ccss (calibration spectral sample)... I think it is better to use agryll to make ccss and then feed the data to SpectraView's .edr files (translated) - shall be much more elegant solution (unless NEC's .edr are better than you can do on your own)... I think we need to ask Grame to add a reverse functionality - now Argyll can do edr to ccmx/ccss, but not ccss to edr (I think so)...
Yes, it's all done in SpectraView alone as described. No ccmx file or any such file is produced however. At least as far as the user is concerned.
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AlterEgo

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Re: xrite upgrade from i1Display Pro to i1Display Photo?
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2016, 12:07:38 pm »

Yes, it's all done in SpectraView alone as described.
I misread a part of quoted text (the part related to using first spectophotometer in SpectraView itself)
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