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Author Topic: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?  (Read 23936 times)

eleanorbrown

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2016, 05:52:04 pm »

Thanks for the info on this to confirm what I'm seeing.  I have not tried the Canson Etching Rag so you are right on this also.  Actually what I'm not fine with is that Epson is not being truthful with their customers for corporate marketing and $$ purposes/sales, etc etc.  This ticks me off royally.  They just need to be honest on this one.  Thanks again, Eleanor

Thanks for your report, Eleanor.  Your observations are confirming what many of us have suspected - that the "new" Epson Legacy papers are just a re-branding of the longstanding Canson counterparts.  I'm guessing the Epson Legacy Etching is actually Canson's Edition Etching Rag, in a new box.

Lots of marketing hyperbole, in other words.

Which is fine.  I'm actually quite a fan of Epson's Signature line of papers.  It's high OBA content notwithstanding, I very much like Exhibition Fiber.  And the four Hot and Cold Press papers are my go-to for matte presentations.  I also use Canson's Baryta Photographique, Platine Fibre Rag, and Edition Etching Rag quite a lot.  I'm not at all disappointed that they are available under the Epson label, particular if the rumors of Canson's financial difficulties are true.  I would deeply hate to lose Platine Fibre Rag, a truly special paper.

Thanks again.
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disneytoy

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2016, 02:11:16 pm »

My initial results printing a customer's order on both the Legacy Baryta and Platine using Canson profiles on my 9890 were great!

Granted these were not full color range, mainly seascapes. But both are very similar papers. Platine a bit whiter with a shimmery surface, Baryta less shimmery and a more yellow paper base. Easily interchangeable. Hard to distinguish side by side.

The Baryta has the old chemical darkroom smell. Platine no smell.

I like both papers alot.
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narikin

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #42 on: March 28, 2016, 10:34:40 am »

I have a question about the 'Epson Legacy Paper Rebate' "Buy 3 for cost of 2" offer.

It says maximum of "Nine (9) claims per customer"

Question: is each box/roll a 'claim', or is each rebate a claim? In other words if you buy 3 boxes of Legacy Baryta paper, and apply for a rebate for one, is that 1 claim or 3 claims? Can you buy a maximum of 9 boxes, or... 9x3 = 27 boxes?

Poorly worded by Epson. I would have guessed each rebate is a 1 claim, and you could buy a maximum of 27 boxes and get 9 rebates, but some people are saying otherwise.  Anyone know definitively?


 
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disneytoy

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2016, 11:23:45 am »

Epson rebates are pritty fast. They do this type of rebate often. You can claim 9 rebates
 Receive a rebate check for 9 rolls. 9 separate rebates. Not 3.
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2016, 04:53:28 pm »

I am printing a show right now on the Epson Legacy Platine. I had proofed all the work on the Canson Platine using the same profile and I don't see any difference on the Canon 8300.

john




My initial results printing a customer's order on both the Legacy Baryta and Platine using Canson profiles on my 9890 were great!

Granted these were not full color range, mainly seascapes. But both are very similar papers. Platine a bit whiter with a shimmery surface, Baryta less shimmery and a more yellow paper base. Easily interchangeable. Hard to distinguish side by side.

The Baryta has the old chemical darkroom smell. Platine no smell.

I like both papers alot.
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eleanorbrown

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2016, 02:05:08 pm »

As I mentioned previously, I don't see any difference in the new Legacy papers and their Canson counterparts in comparative testing on my Epson 7900 printer.  I have scanned through the new LL videos on the papers and did not see any comparisons of the Legacy to the Canson.  However I may have missed it as I really need to sit and look at the videos  in their entirety when I have more time.  I'm wondering if Epson (and I'm a big fan of Epson....don't get me wrong) has been leading their customers on for months now with exaggerated information about the "all new" papers to make a profit.  They may have made changes so tiny as to be really not noticeable so they can make all the claims they have made.  Corporate style.  Anyway I wish someone "in the know and not connected with Epson"  would be honest about exactly what, if any, changes were made in the new papers.  (I have a large supply of Canson Baryta and Platine and the Infinity Rag.  )   I am also a fan of the Epson Exhibition Fiber...a wonderful paper..... Thanks very very much.  Eleanor

I am printing a show right now on the Epson Legacy Platine. I had proofed all the work on the Canson Platine using the same profile and I don't see any difference on the Canon 8300.

john
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rdonson

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #46 on: April 02, 2016, 04:47:41 pm »

In one online interview (not on LuLa) an Epson rep at a trade show said that the Legacy papers had a coating optimized for the new Epson UltraChrome HD inkset.  How much of a difference that optimization makes is a mystery at this point.  Only someone with a P800 or that class printer and printing on both Epson Legacy papers and their Canson equivalents would be able to tell.  I suspect it would also take a spectro and a critical eye but who knows?
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Wayne Fox

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #47 on: April 03, 2016, 01:20:52 am »

In one online interview (not on LuLa) an Epson rep at a trade show said that the Legacy papers had a coating optimized for the new Epson UltraChrome HD inkset.  How much of a difference that optimization makes is a mystery at this point.  Only someone with a P800 or that class printer and printing on both Epson Legacy papers and their Canson equivalents would be able to tell.  I suspect it would also take a spectro and a critical eye but who knows?
interesting thought.  I recently had a set of prints to print on 17x22" Exhibition Fiber.  The print looked fine on my 9900, but there some serious gloss differential problems when I printed on my p9000. I struggled with it for a while, finally calling Epson for support.  The box of EEF was probably 18 months old, but was stored in it's original bag.  I brought a new box of EEF home, and was surprised to find no gloss differential at all.

I also noticed a print from my 9900 on the old EEF vs a print from my p9000 on the new exhibition fibers was actually quite a bit different. The older printer/paper was definitely "glossier", the new paper had a little more what I guess I would call semi matte sheen to it.

It appears there was a slight change in  the coating of EEF in the past 18 months or so.  Could be the same thing they are doing to the new papers.
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #48 on: April 03, 2016, 09:02:05 am »

Yea, yea, yea. It's Canson Platine and Rag Photographique. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out. Just print on it.

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Jeff Magidson

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #49 on: April 03, 2016, 04:49:19 pm »

It's a bit disingenuous that this was not mentioned in the LuLa video "print discussion". I guess it's to be expected wen you have Dan who is employed by Epson and Jeff who has had business relationships with Epson, and Kevin who is an employee of LuLa who has had Epson as an advertiser.

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate this website, but a reputable website has to prioritize and advocate for its readers/viewers over corporate interests if it wants to  maintain credibility.       
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Jager

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #50 on: April 04, 2016, 12:07:04 pm »

It's a bit disingenuous that this was not mentioned in the LuLa video "print discussion". I guess it's to be expected wen you have Dan who is employed by Epson and Jeff who has had business relationships with Epson, and Kevin who is an employee of LuLa who has had Epson as an advertiser.

Don't get me wrong, I really appreciate this website, but a reputable website has to prioritize and advocate for its readers/viewers over corporate interests if it wants to  maintain credibility.       

I agree.

I'm a big fan of Epson - I think they've done far more to advance photographic inkjet printing than anyone else.  And I've long respected the LuLa crew - I've got both of Jeff's books, a number of Michael's videos, and both Kevin and Dano look like fine fellows to hang out with.  And the video itself was well done, with an apt discussion on the philosophy of printing and the presentation of a number of nice prints.

But the entire discussion in the video clearly suggests that the Legacy papers are new designs - the phrase "... were designed" was even used a couple times - when clearly they are not. 

I'm more bemused than anything else by marketing hyperbole.  I fully expect Epson to tout these papers to the moon.  That's Dano's job.

I'm much more disappointed that Kevin and Jeff got on that train without so much as a by-your-leave regarding the Canson originals.

That turned it into little more than an infomercial.


deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #51 on: April 04, 2016, 06:14:40 pm »

It's all so freaking boring. This Epson Master Printers group or whatever they want to call it these days. It always the same lame pr bs.

Epson engineers have alway been at the very top of the industry, and their sales guys are always full of it. Reminds me of Kodak in the 80s.

Canon did a deal with Crane for their Polished Rag, and they called it Polished Rag by Crane and told everyone it was essentially the same thing as Crane Silver Rag. Hp did the same thing with Hahnemuhle and called theirs Smooth Fine Art by Hahnemuhle, and HP told us it was the same as Hahnemuhle Photo Rag only they got Hah. to make it a little thinner for their printers.

But Epson, they always gotta say they created everything, when none of their papers are created by them. Whatever.
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Christopher

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #52 on: April 04, 2016, 06:23:30 pm »

And what's up with the crap one can't even get them in Europe to test.


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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2016, 03:25:27 am »

No samples yet to confirm the very likely conclusions in this thread with spectral plots. I have a question though; Is the latest version of the Platine (of whatever distribution brand) behaving equal in cracking/crumbling when cut  compared to the first Canson version? I have phrased this question as neutral as possible.


Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

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January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

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spinellino

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2016, 06:19:55 am »

I'm 99% sure that neither Canson nor Epson are the manufacturers of those papers: they are made by Felix Schoeller.
They also sell some of their products to Hahnemuhle (The Photo Silk Baryta is basically the same as the Canson Baryta).

Felix Schoeller papers come in a white box and they are not easy to find, but they are usually cheaper than re branded versions:
25 sheets, Baryta, A3+ (13*19)
Canson: 90
FS: 58
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2016, 03:59:48 pm »

I'm 99% sure that neither Canson nor Epson are the manufacturers of those papers: they are made by Felix Schoeller.
They also sell some of their products to Hahnemuhle (The Photo Silk Baryta is basically the same as the Canson Baryta).

Felix Schoeller papers come in a white box and they are not easy to find, but they are usually cheaper than re branded versions:
25 sheets, Baryta, A3+ (13*19)
Canson: 90
FS: 58

That has been mentioned before:

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=108556.msg894764#msg894764

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
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dchew

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2016, 02:30:25 pm »

FYI for anyone taking advantage of the Epson "buy three get one free" rebate. I just purchased three rolls of Legacy Baryta. I received three rolls in boxes labeled "Legacy Baryta", but inside were two rolls of Legacy Fibre and one roll of Legacy Platine.

So if you are buying multiple rolls, when you receive them make sure you open all the boxes and check that the paper is correct. You would hate to have a surprise months down the road.

Dave

Note: I too am printing using the Canson Platine profile (from ImagePrint). Seems to be successful.
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2016, 08:37:41 pm »

Yea, when a company like Hahnemuhle or Canson come up with a coating formula and patent it, they often outsource the actual production to other factories. For a time Hahnemuhle was having some photorag made in France and some in Germany and although they were very similar, the actual gray print color for black and white prints was different from different batches. I found that out when I was in the middle of producing a limited edition portfolio of hundreds of prints and I had to send some paper rolls back and switch to the original batch numbers. The talk then was that the water in the factories was different and that little element changed print color of the neutral inks. If you think about it, it's amazing that the can keep the coatings as consistent from year to year as they do. That can't be easy.

It doesn't seem like Epson is going to help us any with the prices on this stuff. Besides their introductory multi roll offer, I don't see any savings going on.

john



That has been mentioned before:

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=108556.msg894764#msg894764

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Jeff Magidson

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2016, 10:45:53 pm »


It doesn't seem like Epson is going to help us any with the prices on this stuff. Besides their introductory multi roll offer, I don't see any savings going on.

john

Savings?? Currently if you look at the prices at B&H, Epson Legacy is about 35%-45% more than the Canson counterparts.

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deanwork

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Re: Canson Platine vs Epson Legacy Platine - profiles interchangeable?
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2016, 11:21:12 pm »

That's totally insane. If Canson totally sells out to them then we're screwed. (Actually we'll go back to Hahnemuhle completely.)
It's a funny word, Legacy. Who's legacy, the company that has made fine printmaking papers since the Renaissance, or Seiko?





Savings?? Currently if you look at the prices at B&H, Epson Legacy is about 35%-45% more than the Canson counterparts.
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