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Author Topic: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?  (Read 3881 times)

gchappel

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I am just making inroads to some better papers- moving from red river papers.
I love the look of the platine fibre rag. 
As I am about to place my BH order the first review of this paper describes issues with this paper and canon pigment inks.
According to the review the black inks do not dry/adhere to the paper. Basically they rub off on your hands. 
Thought I would ask others experience with this paper and Canon inks before I test these waters.
Thanks
Gary

By the way here is a copy of the review in question


Very beautiful satin paper, BUT IT SMEARS with the black pigmented Canon ink. It works rather well with all the other colors, but NOT with the black Canon ink. The right paper profiles, ICC, and original Canon pigmented inks were used. It has made my hands all black while carefully handling the paper, and customers have emailed me about it too, unhappy. It's not a matter of letting the ink dry.
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2016, 08:28:03 pm »

That's totally wrong. I use it almost every day and have for several years. It is my primary gloss fiber media. It is great on the Canon. I do lots of big prints for exhibition on the 44" rolls as well as sheets. Never a hint of a problem, never a smear of any kind. I also do a lot of black and white with it with those inks. Sounds like their profiles or their media setting was way off.

For what it is  worth it appears that Epson is now offering the Canson papers, including Platine under their Legacy name. I don't see much of a price reduction but it's probably the same exact stuff. The only reason I can see using the Epson branded stuff is that more retailers will be stocking it.

john



I am just making inroads to some better papers- moving from red river papers.
I love the look of the platine fibre rag. 
As I am about to place my BH order the first review of this paper describes issues with this paper and canon pigment inks.
According to the review the black inks do not dry/adhere to the paper. Basically they rub off on your hands. 
Thought I would ask others experience with this paper and Canon inks before I test these waters.
Thanks
Gary

By the way here is a copy of the review in question


Very beautiful satin paper, BUT IT SMEARS with the black pigmented Canon ink. It works rather well with all the other colors, but NOT with the black Canon ink. The right paper profiles, ICC, and original Canon pigmented inks were used. It has made my hands all black while carefully handling the paper, and customers have emailed me about it too, unhappy. It's not a matter of letting the ink dry.
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gchappel

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Re: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2016, 08:45:10 pm »

Thanks. Just wanted to confirm.
If they are the same papers might try the epson said, I can find these on sale.
Gary
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2016, 05:31:43 am »


For what it is  worth it appears that Epson is now offering the Canson papers, including Platine under their Legacy name. I don't see much of a price reduction but it's probably the same exact stuff. The only reason I can see using the Epson branded stuff is that more retailers will be stocking it.

john

The remaining question is whether Canson is the in-between party. In the past Felix Schoeller has been mentioned as being the coating factory for the Canson papers and my SpectrumViz measurements show enough similarity in the spectral plots of both companies' products. More proof is now in this article:
http://whattheythink.com/news/78505-felix-schoeller-group-canson-win-franco-german-business-award/
A recent satin rag paper from Arca in The Netherlands, Felix Schoeller produced, shows an improved white reflectance compared to Platine and it is also without any OBA content.

The only thing I need is some A4 sheets of the Epson Legacy range to see where they fall within Felix Schoeller's production range.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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deanwork

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Re: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2016, 09:26:50 am »

When I get some in a week or two l can send you some sheets.

One thing I know for sure is that Canson has changed something in their coating within the last 6 months or so, at least with the Rag Photographique that I use almost exclusively for matte rag. People were reporting a loss of dmax that was noticable. I noticed it also, so I tested it with my three printers and the HP, the Canon, and the Epson with K7 inks have all dropped in relation to where they were. You can easily see the difference when visually compared to Epson Hot Press or Hah Photorag.  It's not a big deal unless you print a lot of work, like I do, with total black backgrounds, but if you do it's fairly serious. I look forward to seeing what the Epson Legacy papers are doing. They sure aren't cheap either so they better be good.

I'm a huge fan of the Platine. It is so sharp and the texture, gamut, and white point is perfect for me with no oba.

john






The remaining question is whether Canson is the in-between party. In the past Felix Schoeller has been mentioned as being the coating factory for the Canson papers and my SpectrumViz measurements show enough similarity in the spectral plots of both companies' products. More proof is now in this article:
http://whattheythink.com/news/78505-felix-schoeller-group-canson-win-franco-german-business-award/
A recent satin rag paper from Arca in The Netherlands, Felix Schoeller produced, shows an improved white reflectance compared to Platine and it is also without any OBA content.

The only thing I need is some A4 sheets of the Epson Legacy range to see where they fall within Felix Schoeller's production range.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2016, 05:42:14 am »

When I get some in a week or two l can send you some sheets.

One thing I know for sure is that Canson has changed something in their coating within the last 6 months or so, at least with the Rag Photographique that I use almost exclusively for matte rag. People were reporting a loss of dmax that was noticable. I noticed it also, so I tested it with my three printers and the HP, the Canon, and the Epson with K7 inks have all dropped in relation to where they were. You can easily see the difference when visually compared to Epson Hot Press or Hah Photorag.  It's not a big deal unless you print a lot of work, like I do, with total black backgrounds, but if you do it's fairly serious. I look forward to seeing what the Epson Legacy papers are doing. They sure aren't cheap either so they better be good.

I'm a huge fan of the Platine. It is so sharp and the texture, gamut, and white point is perfect for me with no oba.

john

That would be nice John. Email me for the postal address.

While you measure the Dmax, do you also check the Dmin, the paper white value?  Dynamic range could be as important and sometimes I wonder what the result in the print is when manufacturers improve the paper white reflection, it might influence Dmax but still increase the dynamic range.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots

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GrahamBy

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Re: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2016, 06:51:43 am »

I wonder what the result in the print is when manufacturers improve the paper white reflection, it might influence Dmax but still increase the dynamic range.

I think that would be difficult because of the definition Dr=log(Max reflectance/Min reflectance). So even a hypothetical extreme change from say 100% to 85% would give a difference of 0.07. Conversely, if the min changes from 5% to 10%, you get a change of 0.3

(Actually I thought that Dmax was already defined as the ratio, ie Dmax= dynamic range, but maybe that is non-standard?)
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2016, 09:23:13 am »

I think that would be difficult because of the definition Dr=log(Max reflectance/Min reflectance). So even a hypothetical extreme change from say 100% to 85% would give a difference of 0.07. Conversely, if the min changes from 5% to 10%, you get a change of 0.3

(Actually I thought that Dmax was already defined as the ratio, ie Dmax= dynamic range, but maybe that is non-standard?)

You could quote in Lab values then to get a better representation of the perceptual effect. This has been discussed before on the DPreview forum and Mark McCormick corrected my misunderstanding of the effect then, something I did not forget:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3722471

>> Ernst, as you probably know, optical density is a very non linear scale when it comes to humanl visual perception. A dmax of 2.5 equals an L* value of 2.8 while a DMax of 2.8 equals an L* value of 1.4. That is an L* difference of 1.4 which is only slightly more than a "just noticeable difference" to the human observer under appropriate viewing conditions. At the other end of the density scale, 0.0 OD equates to a perfectly diffuse white 100% reflecting surface hence L* = 100. 0.3 OD equals an L* value of 76.1. That's a huge perceived difference, i.e "extremely noticeable" to the human observer. What all these numbers boil down to is that choosing a paper with media whtiepoint L*=98 over one like PGPP at 95.0 will give you a delta L* change of 3.0 units which is significantly more noticeable to the human observer than the change from Dmax of 2.5 to 2.8. Moreover, the Dmax measurement of 2.8 is unsustainable. It is achieved only for a very fresh-off-the-printer print. Give the print a few days, and any Dmax above 2.6 will usually settle back down to more typical values. Also, most of the spectrophotometers used for ICC profiling these days, can't read a 2.8 Dmax all that reliably. For both reasons, the Epson claim of highest industry Dmax doesn't impress me much.<<

Edit: To illustrate this, within the Fibre/Baryta Satin/Lustre/Gloss group of inkjet papers the paper white can vary between slightly less than L 94 and almost up to L 99. The Canson Platine is one in the middle of that, L 97.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2016 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots
« Last Edit: March 03, 2016, 10:21:52 am by Ernst Dinkla »
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Miles

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Re: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2016, 09:34:43 am »

I have used Plantine on the ipf8300 and now the ipf8400 without a problem.  This usage is with the supplied profile.  Really produces a nice looking print.  Perhaps you need to reinstall the profile or check your settings.  I do have a note on the box that I used the special 4 setting on the ipf8300.  I installed the .am1 file on the ipf8400, thus I don't need to select special 4 any more when printing, but rather just select the paper now.  I have been very pleased with this paper.
Miles
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GrahamBy

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Re: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2016, 11:01:23 am »

Ernst, thanks :-)
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gchappel

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Re: Canson Infinity Platine Fibre Rag 310 printed on ipf8400 Any issues?
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2016, 01:07:07 pm »

Thanks for the feedback. 
Looking forward to trying a new paper.
Gary
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