iPF5000 is shipping

[DarkPenguin]

According to InkJet Art ...

http://inkjetart.com/canon/wide/iPF5000.html

Now if only HP would get the B8190 out the #$%@$% door.

[JeffKohn]

OK so who's going to be the guinea pig...

[DarkPenguin]

Not me.  Look at this from over at DPReview...

"2The starter ink tanks that initially packaged with the printer have enough ink to fill the ink system, and are not the same capacity as the replacement ink tanks specified here."

The replacement tanks are 130ml and I'm going to guess that's about $100. So depending on how much actual printing is available after charging the system you could well be looking at another $1,200 to be able to print after that.

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=17705261

[JeffKohn]

Not me.  Look at this from over at DPReview...
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp...essage=17705261
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That post makes pessimistic assumptions about the volume of the starter cartridges and the price of replacement cartridges that appear to have no basis in fact. As I just recently posted in that same thread, according to the PDF from Canon the starter cartridges will have 90ml of ink in them, so you should be able to do a substantial amount of printing on those cartridges. In fact the iPF5000 ships with quite a bit more ink than the Epson 4800. The notion that you'll have to spend $1200 more on ink shortly after purchase looks to me like FUD from somebody with a bias against Canon for whatever reason.

[David White]

That post makes pessimistic assumptions about the volume of the starter cartridges and the price of replacement cartridges that appear to have no basis in fact. As I just recently posted in that same thread, according to the PDF from Canon the starter cartridges will have 90ml of ink in them, so you should be able to do a substantial amount of printing on those cartridges. In fact the iPF5000 ships with quite a bit more ink than the Epson 4800. The notion that you'll have to spend $1200 more on ink shortly after purchase looks to me like FUD from somebody with a bias against Canon for whatever reason.
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It all depends on how you count the ink.  If you are speaking about total volume, the Canon does ship with more - 12 colors x 90ml/color = 1080 ml and the Epson 4800 has 8 colors x 110ml/color = 880ml.  I think the amount per color is the more realistic measurement.  The specification page for the printer says "The starter ink tanks that initially packaged with the printer have enough ink to fill the ink system, and are not the same capacity as the replacement ink tanks specified here."  It does not say how much is required of the 90ml starter cartridges to fill the lines initially.  I suspect that a good assumption would be that you would need to purchase additional cartridges within a short time at a cost of $70-$75/cartridge for a total of $840 - $900 for the full set.  I've been unable to find the cost of the roll paper attachment but I would guess that it is probably around $150.  By the time you get through, the cost for this printer will be about the same as the Epson 7800.  Not exactly a bargain.

Nevertheless, if this printer is as good as the specifications and the print samples imply, I will probably buy one since I refuse to purchase any of Epson's current offerings because of the requirement for swapping cartridges depending upon the paper used.

[ericaro]

It all depends on how you count the ink.  If you are speaking about total volume, the Canon does ship with more - 12 colors x 90ml/color = 1080 ml and the Epson 4800 has 8 colors x 110ml/color = 880ml.  I think the amount per color is the more realistic measurement.  The specification page for the printer says "The starter ink tanks that initially packaged with the printer have enough ink to fill the ink system, and are not the same capacity as the replacement ink tanks specified here."  It does not say how much is required of the 90ml starter cartridges to fill the lines initially.  I suspect that a good assumption would be that you would need to purchase additional cartridges within a short time at a cost of $70-$75/cartridge for a total of $840 - $900 for the full set.  I've been unable to find the cost of the roll paper attachment but I would guess that it is probably around $150.  By the time you get through, the cost for this printer will be about the same as the Epson 7800.  Not exactly a bargain.

Nevertheless, if this printer is as good as the specifications and the print samples imply, I will probably buy one since I refuse to purchase any of Epson's current offerings because of the requirement for swapping cartridges depending upon the paper used.
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I refuse to buy for the same reasons too.Epson must be very nervous about the new canons printers. Yesterday I received in the mail a very expensive looking brochure about the "new" K3 inks filled with pictures from the usual experts on  the epson payroll,descibing the new changes ect. Don't you looooove competition!!! I hope we can see an unbiased review of the new canon  soon. I know colorbyte will cover the printer.I can't wait to see an image print /canon/lucia/hanrag combination  and BW on silver rag.

[michael]

I expect to have an Canon iPF5000 for testing within a week or so, and Imageprint for it as soon as it's ready.

It's going to be fun.

Michael

[JeffKohn]

It all depends on how you count the ink. If you are speaking about total volume, the Canon does ship with more - 12 colors x 90ml/color = 1080 ml and the Epson 4800 has 8 colors x 110ml/color = 880ml. I think the amount per color is the more realistic measurement.

I dont' think per-color is more realistic, because it doesn't tell you how much printing you'll have to do before needing to replace one or more carts. It stands to reason that with RGB inks, the CcMmY won't be depleted as quickly as they would on a K3 printer. Now I'm not going to suggest that with 22% more total ink volume you'll be able to print 22% more prints on the Canon (for one thing 1080ml counts both matte and photo black); but I think people predicting that you won't be able to print much at all before having to lay down another $900 on ink are being needlessly pessimistic; there doesn't seem to be any evidence supporting this assumption.

[Brian Gilkes]

Ink selling is very profitable especially if there is no competition and a high demand. If the new Canon printers have the reqired gamut , dynamic range, archival properties and importantly linearity, then prices could well fall. Ink usage then becomes less an issue. Denser inks, ie more pigment per drop , would reduce ink use but raise costs and most probably frequency of nozzle blocks. They may also result in wider gamut , but this is of practical use in only a minority of situations .I don't get gamut warnings very often with the K3 inkset. Use of the extra colours in the Canon set should widen gamut anyway and I suspect Epson's next series will be 12 colour too.
Solving the ink loss problem in changing matte> gloss and back will be a big one. So is DMax on matte papers.
In the end , providing quality is there, then cost per print is important, but ink is only part of production costs.
I can pay over $25 for a single sheet of paper. Floor space , maintenence ,energy, taxes , living and more must be factored in to obtain the actual cost of a print. How long does it take to make a fine print?
How much time did it take to gain the skills necessary for fine printmaking? What is all that worth?
Ink may become cheaper but how significant is that really?
Cheers,
Brian,
Pharos Editions
www.pharoseditions.com.au

[henk]

Brian, In the IT business we call that TCO ( Total Cost of Ownership). This is a econometric model that has lost of variables. For TCO of PC’s there is :purchasing cost of the PC, network costs, personnel costs, operating system, helpdesk and a 50 more. So. the cost of the PC is a minor cost of the total. So is with the ink costs of a print. From now on we will call this “ Fine art print TCO”. The term TCO was originally invented by the Gartner Group.
Any way. I was on the verge of purchasing an EPS 4800 but was just in time informed by Depreview . So I will keep my money burning in my pocket till I know if Canon can match or do better than Epson!!  Because I think Epson does not deserve my business because of their attitude to their clients with “ old wine in new bags” ( 4000 -> 4800). BTW ink cost in the Netherlands is better than in the US. A 220 Ml cart is Euro 75  which is US$ 97.to day even with the high Euro / $ rate.
Un fortunately Canon has not yet announced this printer in the Netherlands. but will do after a exhibition in Spain later this month. So it looks as if we are getting a “ hot summer“ this year in Europe with a Canon/Epson battle and new announcements of Canon with a 21 MP FF camera and ……. a follow-up on the 5D to Nikon D200?, on the Photokina in September. I bet that Epson will get defensive with a new printer.

Henk  

[David White]

Red River has updated their blog with some screenshots of the status monitor as well as some preliminary costs for printing.  For a 16x20 they're showing the ink cost to be $1.37.  Looks about like $0.62/sq ft on the paper they were using.

They also reported 60% of the ink left in the starter tanks after the initial charging and printing around 75 8x10 prints.

[Martin Phillips]

Here in the UK Canon have ordered the withholding of the initial shipment planned for this week because they claim to have discovered a "software glitch".

I am told I have to wait until next week to find out when they will resume shipment.

I wonder if this has to do with the distinct dots mentioned in the RedRiver Paper review?

[michael]

I'm now expecting my review sample of the 5000 on Wednesday or Thursday of next week (05/31/06).

It's my plan to start posting comments and observations here right away, and before my formal review is completed, which could take a couple of weeks.

Michael