Harvard Bans Flash Photography as... Racist!

[kencameron]

But never mind migrants: when I was an apprentice engineer we worked a 44 hr week and nobody thought anything about it; I even did a few regular stints at night shift. Today, France has a 35 hr week and they still go on strike, block motorways...

Well, yes. And 50 years before you were an apprentice engineer, how long a week did apprentice engineers work, I wonder, and what might any survivors have said about your generation. I unsure exactly what to make of the combination of the reduced work week and the increased stroppiness of the apprentices and their masters. They could fit into plausible narratives of progress or decline. I think I know which one you would choose (but you do sometimes surprise me). I am unsure, myself.

[jeremyrh]

It's like Europe: every single politic¡an knows the answer to the migrant crisis: solve the problem in the middle-east.

Remind me again how we do that ... ?

[Rob C]

Remind me again how we do that ... ?

Bang! But with a big bang. Of heads together; with locked borders, and the unavoidable realization that their fate lies firmly in their own hands, to make the change domestically. It's what all of society ends up having to do, or live a life that's forever a mess. The secret is not to allow that mess to become somebody else's.

But you knew that; you're just winding me up.

;-)

Rob

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Remind me again how we do that ... ?

Stop the regime-change policies?

[jeremyrh]

Bang! But with a big bang. Of heads together; with locked borders, and the unavoidable realization that their fate lies firmly in their own hands, to make the change domestically. It's what all of society ends up having to do, or live a life that's forever a mess. The secret is not to allow that mess to become somebody else's.

But you knew that; you're just winding me up.

;-)

Rob

Rob - I like looking at your photos, and am slightly entertained by your anecdotes about the photography business. Politics? Not so much.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/think-syrian-refugees-should-take-up-arms-and-sort-out-their-own-country-you-need-this-pub-brawl-a6862526.html

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

That bar brawl analogy holds water (or is it beer?) as long as it is framed as desperate, responsible fathers worrying about their families and small children. The reality, however, is that there is a huge, disproportionate number of single, military-grade males among the refugees. Plus plenty of sides to pick, even for the pickiest of them. What is puzzling, however, is that pool is also the primary recruiting source for ISIS, so that generation is willing to fight, just not for the side we root for (do we even know who we are rooting for, or we only know who we are rooting against?).

Come to think of it, it is hard to blame the youngsters for their choice. Faced with a dilemma of dying in a bloody, senseless war, or the milk & honey life in the promised land, with easily available, scantily clad western women, already frustrated with metrosexual sissies the western men have become, waiting for real men to show up, I guess the answer is easy

[Colorado David]

A friend of mine lived in Beirut and taught at the American University there during much of the Lebanese Civil War. At the time of the truck bomb that killed so many US Marines, he went to the leader of the militia that controlled the area of the city where he lived and ask if he was an embarrassment to them. The militia leader said oh no we would kill 10 men to protect you. He asked what it was that that militia was fighting for and the militia leader responded we fight only for the justice of our cause. At that time there were over 100 armed militias in Beirut. How can you possibly serve the justice of 100 competing militias? There in lies the problem of the Middle East.

[Nelsonretreat]

No opportunity is too small for you to engage in another personal jab, Mr. O'Neill?

c'mon you have to admit its a fantastic jump from the thread topic to Mr C.'s worries about European migration issues and from there to his engineering apprenticeship. However, I stand corrected. I promise never to criticise Mr C. again. I understand that is not alowed here. There are consequences to disturbing the cosy little club!

[kencameron]

Come to think of it, it is hard to blame the youngsters for their choice. Faced with a dilemma of dying in a bloody, senseless war, or the milk & honey life in the promised land, with easily available, scantily clad western women, already frustrated with metrosexual sissies the western men have become, waiting for real men to show up, I guess the answer is easy

A bit of stereotyping here. Maybe, for one or two of them, "faced with a dilemma of dying in a bloody, senseless war, or a chance at an ordinary life with a job and a home that might allow them to bring out their families once they are settled". Or is it unthinkable to attribute ordinary decency to young Moslem {Edit: or in some cases Christian} [/size]men? It has been commonplace throughout Australia's history of migration for the men to come first, with the firm and almost always fulfilled plan that the rest of the family will follow. This might sometimes have happened in America as well. I am sure that some or the refugees coming into Europe from the Middle East have bad intentions, but the story being peddled by some people, on this thread and elsewhere, that the young men are all draft dodgers who should, instead, be joining one side or the other to kill people is unpersuasive, IMO.

[PeterAit]

I wish to nominate this thread for "silliest of the year." Although, I realize, it is only February, and this LuLa.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Maybe, for one or two of them, "faced with a dilemma of dying in a bloody, senseless war, or a chance at an ordinary life with a job and a home that might allow them to bring out their families once they are settled". Or is it unthinkable to attribute ordinary decency to young Moslem... for the men to come first, with the firm and almost always fulfilled plan that the rest of the family will follow...

Which decent man leaves his family in such a bloody war while he "lives ordinary life and comfortably settles"? Besides, I was clearly talking about single men. Comparing it to Australian or American immigration is unpersuasive just as well.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... I promise never to criticise Mr C. again. I understand that is not alowed here...

Oh, on the contrary. After all, we are all descendants of the same humanity that gave us gladiator games. You, however, have presented yourself as a crusader against discourtesy, which you (or was it your father?) defined as to "win arguments by destroying your opponent's case, not attacking his person." So, by all means attack, just do not squeal when counter-attacked.

As for Rob C' meandering style... He built a reputation and quite a number of fans here precisely because of his style of narration, characterized by the stream of consciousness, out-of-the-left-field comments, quirky associations, etc. A lot of us find it quite a refreshing departure from otherwise dominant engineering-mind style of dry, factual, humorless delivery, deprived of any personality (but rich in graphs and brick walls).

[Nelsonretreat]

As for Rob C' meandering style... He built a reputation and quite a number of fans here precisely because of his style of narration, characterized by the stream of consciousness, out-of-the-left-field comments, quirky associations, etc. A lot of us find it quite a refreshing departure from otherwise dominant engineering-mind style of dry, factual, humorless delivery, deprived of any personality (but rich in graphs and brick walls).

I have no doubt his meanding into topics dear to his heart that have no connection whatsoever to the topic is endearing but it looks like the axe of disapprobabtion falls on anyone foolhardy enough not to be enchanted?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... no connection whatsoever to the topic..

Hardly correct. The topic of this thread is political correctness run amok (I assume you read the linked Harvard article). Striking, rioting, boycotting, complaining, constantly being "outraged" and "offended," always blaming somebody or something else, is just a part of the repertoire of the PC ethos.

[kencameron]

Which decent man leaves his family in such a bloody war while he "lives ordinary life and comfortably settles"? Besides, I was clearly talking about single men.

Maybe in the fog of civil war, and made aware of the dangers of the journey by media images of, eg, drowned children, a decent man might make the difficult decision to go ahead to prepare the way for his family, particularly if the family weren't in immediate danger but would be if the war took a different course. Seems at least a possible scenario. Of course, he would deserve contempt if he simply left them behind. And in your universe, don't single men have families that they care for (grandparents, parents, siblings, nephews and nieces) and try to help when they can? Might not extended families sometimes send an unmarried young man ahead of them to scout the way? Apparently not. Single male refugees in Europe are driven by greed and sexual fantasy. Too easy.

Comparing it to Australian or American immigration is unpersuasive just as well.

The point of comparison is that families can't and don't always migrate together and that men sometimes go ahead to try to arrange safe passage for their families. It seems to me plausible that some of this might be happening in the current exodus from Syria and Afghanistan, as it did in Australia and America. I would want to hear from one or two of the men in question before reaching stereotypical conclusions about their motives.

[jeremyrh]

I would want to hear from one or two of the men in question before reaching stereotypical conclusions about their motives.

You mean ... use FACTS and LOGIC instead of prejudice and hysteria? How on Earth do you expect THAT to work?

[Rob C]

You mean ... use FACTS and LOGIC instead of prejudice and hysteria? How on Earth do you expect THAT to work?

Depends whose facts, whose logic. That's the thorny point, isn't it? Nope, it ain't absolute; nobody has a hold on the single, divine right: all you have is the vague abilty to do something to protect your own tribal position. And mine suggests keeping Charity at home, with her knickers held firmly and tightly upwards, and with the added precaution of exchanging elastic for cord.

Rob C

[Rob C]

Rob - I like looking at your photos, and am slightly entertained by your anecdotes about the photography business. Politics? Not so much.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/think-syrian-refugees-should-take-up-arms-and-sort-out-their-own-country-you-need-this-pub-brawl-a6862526.html

But that's just another little article written to justify the author's own political expedient - or job.

Anyone can summon up that sort of silly, and false analogy - it's simple to do, and all it takes is a sympathetic audience to translate it into creed. It's basic political mechanics, used all the time in all the various places where opinion gets expressed. It's currently being employed to great public effect (and possibly entertainment) both in the States and in Britain, for totally different motives - on the face of it - but for the same one in the end: imposition of one idea/ideal.

The fact remains: only you can clean your own house, exactly in the same way that only you can be held responsible for your own failures. Why are we willing to be held responsible for success but not its alternative?

Rob

[jeremyrh]

It's currently being employed to great public effect (and possibly entertainment) both in the States and in Britain, for totally different motives - on the face of it - but for the same one in the end: imposition of one idea/ideal.

That idea being that if in doubt it's better to save people's lives than condemn them to death.

[Rob C]

That idea being that if in doubt it's better to save people's lives than condemn them to death.

No, the idea being to win elections next time round.

In the UK the argument isn't about immigrants/refugees at all: it's about staying or not staying within the European Union (on the face of it) but actually about securing the next prime minister job when Dave gives up - he's already indicated this is his last throw.

It's strange to hear miserable, disappointed old Blues talking about Britain standing alone and winning, references to past wars - yeah, with the USA, much of the Commonwealth and others behind her! Times change; we need mutual assistance and help. Everybody does, which is why we get together in 'suitable' groups where we can. Just like the ghettos, then; same idea but with a prett¡er public face on it.

In the States, it's similar, AKAIK, in that they (the politicians) are fighting to get control of America next time round. Mexico paying for a wall? Really? That's for the rednecks to believe, just as we have our own great unwashed to convince/delude in the UK. Ditto every other country that holds elections.

We are ever condemend to be, at best, two steps behind events. And with all politicians apparently being self-serving careerists, what can anyone expect? Who else would want such a dirty job? Who else could be so naturally duplicitous? There is truth in the old saw: anyone wanting to stand for office should be barred from taking office.

Rob