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Author Topic: Best of the Bunch  (Read 95320 times)

drmike

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #200 on: December 04, 2016, 10:51:51 am »

That was very interesting. It was suggested that HCB (blessed be his name) was a bit rude to him in the 50's and this opened his eyes to his own full potential which seems to be quite extensive. What a guy.
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Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #201 on: December 04, 2016, 02:47:12 pm »

That was very interesting. It was suggested that HCB (blessed be his name) was a bit rude to him in the 50's and this opened his eyes to his own full potential which seems to be quite extensive. What a guy.


I read somewhere else that the situation was relatively simple: HC-B wanted Magnum to stay strictly reportage and frowned down on commerce; Horvat wasn't interested in just that, and chased commerce too, which considering Magnum needed money just as much as any other body, seemed a bit odd an attitude on Henri's part, to say the least!

Glad you found the links interesting; it's an amazing world out there in photoland - logic ain't always king!

Rob

Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #202 on: December 06, 2016, 04:48:07 pm »

http://www.loustettner.com/photos/earlynewyork/index.htm

There sure was such a thing as New York style of photographer!

Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #203 on: December 07, 2016, 04:46:00 pm »

"“Photographers are becoming a button….It’s disastrous,” he said. “Digital for me stays exactly like film was before. The quality of the image is different, but this you can go anywhere you want with Photoshop. We do Photoshop only to make pictures not look like digital because it’s cold and awful and technical. But the biggest change is that you’re not intimate anymore with the model. That’s what is going to destroy photography and that’s what’s going to destroy photographers because they’re not going to want to be photographers anymore in 10 years, I’m sure. It has become a democratic process and that’s going nowhere, everybody talks into the picture, that’s awful. That’s the most embarrassing thing.”

From Peter Lindbergh's website. Who can argue?

Rob

Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #204 on: December 08, 2016, 02:41:06 pm »

One never stops learning!

Having sung the praises of Leiter and Levitt, I realise that I didn't know that back in '53 Life published a 24-page issue in colour on New York City(!) by Ernst Haas.  And there I was, well aware of Haas, but not of his equal rôle as one of the pioneers of colour street, which much of the stuff apparently was. Yes, he was certainly one of the first greats that I became aware of and admire to this day, yet I hadn't placed him in the same category as the others in that genre of picture; I'd thought of him more as into reportage and features such as movie-making coverage and epic books.

True, he had become 'tainted' in professional art-world eyes because of his great success in the commercial world, which only goes to show how blinkered the world of art could really be (maybe it enjoys fostering the starving artist romanticism; keeps their percentage high, and the artist's cut low, and the person to heel?), but I don't remember seeing him listed anywhere as a great 50's street photographer, which his images show him to be, even if he was obviously not limited to that field. But then, neither was Leiter, being a fashion snapper for twenty or so years, with top magazines. These great guys were apparently far from one-dimensional.

http://gmpphoto.blogspot.com.es/2014/08/leica-photographer-extraordinaire-ernst.html

https://www.google.es/search?q=ernst+haas&biw=1249&bih=886&tbm=isch&imgil=oykfWd1TlZH1sM%253A%253Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fencrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcThDQfMV2MqxSiZ4TfOZNXvDodioRmaVnCxxOUgMfQD5eb43uXTVQ%253B640%253B420%253BF7DccNyNMvgktM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ernst-haas.com%25252F&source=iu&usg=__DeLrCs2RGYYAYFuedbhv6fcU6D4%3D&sa=X&ei=LriFU9_QGYSK0AWUOw&sqi=2&ved=0CKMBEP4dMA4#facrc=_&imgrc=k-y4-A9pTnBrDM%3A

http://shooterfiles.com/2016/10/master-profiles-ernst-haas/

(On the one above, check the video by scrolling down a little bit.)

Rob
« Last Edit: December 08, 2016, 03:31:50 pm by Rob C »
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GrahamBy

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #205 on: December 15, 2016, 08:50:38 am »

"But the biggest change is that you’re not intimate anymore with the model."

So a couple of weeks back I went to Amsterdam on a Sunday night for two days of meetings: my original thought was to go a day early to see Lindbergh's exhibition in Rotterdam. Part of the reason I didn't was because I was a bit jaded by reading Lindbergh about how Lindbergh is different and doesn't hide his models under heavy make-up and post-processing... which seemed less and less true as he looked at his work. But he has to survive in the industry, so let me not cast a stone at his greenhouse.

What gets me though is the implicit suggestion that the heavy industry approach to photography is somehow inter-related with digital: I'm not sure it is. I think it's part of the general trend towards paying ever fewer people ever more, while letting everyone else starve. That's great for those at the top of the pole of course, and it probably encourages them to make their shoots more expensive: it's easier to take 10% from a $500k shoot than 50% from a $100k shoot (numbers for illustrative purposes and quite possibly pure fantasy). In fact he could probably market himself as a film traditionalist if he wanted: it wouldn't add so much to the budget having assistants running about re-loading cameras and he could pop a film developing line into the back of one of those semi-trailers. With enough money for bracketing etc, he'd be no more at risk of technical failures than with digital, hence complying with the industrial ethos of error-free production.

I suspect that digital and the concentration of budgets arrived at about the same time by coincidence...
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GrahamBy

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #206 on: December 15, 2016, 10:58:58 am »

Further thoughts: Lindbergh's site quotes the curator of his exhibition in Moscow (I'll scratch yours if...):
"Lindbergh’s work is far from trivial advertising : he presents not objects but images, not products but the atmosphere, state of mind, and emotions."

This is of course is exactly the heart of advertising: selling the lie that if you buy the product, you get something else.

Once upon it was done with a certain amount of naivete, and a lot of class, and it was more of an invitation to participate in a pleasant daydream. Or maybe that's me being nostalgic, but in any case it has become such an efficient machine for selling an increasingly impoverished middle class shit they don't need to pump money to the top 0.1% of the population, that it feels rather dirty. Very dirty when it's about furs ripped from live animals.

Or terrifyingly filthy, as it starts to make its way in politics and facts no longer have any weight over fantasy. There are people setting fire to the the Reichstag and we're worrying about whether black is the new black and if my current pocket computer has sufficiently round corners...
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Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #207 on: December 15, 2016, 02:57:36 pm »

Graham, you misunderstand: I'm the one allowed mild dyspepsia! ;-)

Lindbergh is indeed a top-bracket name, and I'm sure he could and probably does shoot film when it suits him, but as you say, he too is in the industry, and nobody seems to be that high up the pole they can disregard reality when it's called Client. I suppose some jobs have to be done via monitor surveillance (which is basically what it comes to) but there are also videos where he works untethered, though who knows if there's actually a wireless link to some computer regardless of what's visible. For a while, I even doubted if some of the videos were real or just mugging for the cameras, as he used long lenses hand-held, but I was forgetting IS which I have never had, and recently I did some hand-held shots with my 180mm on a cut-frame, making it equivalent to 270mm... working with auto ISO and set to anything between a 500th and 2000th of a sec, wide open, and to my happy surprise there was no reason to worry, and that's without IS, as I say. With film, I never used even my 135mm off a tripod. So who knows...

Advertising: of course, it's all about selling dreams! Have a look at yacht brochures! That's all of commercial photography: dream-peddling. And there the huge difference between editorial and advertising fashion photography: editorial blatantly sells dreams, and advertising not so much; it has to show how something actually looks, especially nowadays in Internet selling, where somebody has to foot the transport and restocking bill if something gets sent back because it isn't what someone thought it said on the box!

I used to do a regular half-page newspaper advertising gig for one or two of the House of Fraser stores; it was during the peak of the boutique craze, and up in Glasgow we sometimes got the stuff that Harrods hadn't sold - same owner at the time, before the Egyptian became the way to walk - and my brief wasn't necessarily to sell the items we photographed, but to illustrate the idea of excitement just to get young women into the store, where they could then see a broad range of stuff in the boutique, and probably - hopefully - move further through the store and even patronise the restaurants... it was about holding the arms wide open to the world that was young and alive, perhaps nervous about large upper-level stores, and trying to make them friends for life. The "ladies who lunch" already had their place within the system, and populated an entirely different world within the same stores. With matching prices, I may add, which was great, because I could look at the price of a blouse or a hat, and feel absolutely not nervous at charging as I did, and in guineas! Spendid idea, the guinea. Neat little earner in time.

But the impoverished are always amongst us, and they are never going to be customers of the glittering bazaar. But neither must they be allowed to close the funhouse doors for everyone else. If that happens, then those same folks ain't gonna get no benefits nowhere: killing the goose wot lays dem golden nuggets has never solved a thing.

As I say, I don't personally know how photography fares regarding money these days; I read that photographers are usually obliged to do video too, and all of the stuff at prices lower than they were a few years ago. I'd find it difficult to imagine that the top guns don't feel the wind of change too; even the magazines are selling less and less space, have to set up and go online... maybe the electronic dream is actually turning out to be a nightmare. Ask Yahoo.

;-)

Rob

« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 03:02:24 pm by Rob C »
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Telecaster

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #208 on: December 15, 2016, 04:36:38 pm »

Prompted by a mention at The Online Photographer I've just bought a copy of Michael Kenna's new expanded version of Rouge, containing photos taken at the famous Ford Motor Company manufacturing plant. Which is located in my "backyard" and which I've toured multiple times. If you'd last seen it in operation in the 1960s, or even in the early/mid '90s when Kenna was photographing it, making a return visit today might leave you wondering if you were in the same place even though it looks much the same on the outside.

The folks railing against the outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries are trying to restart a battle that's already over. The winner wasn't any country but rather the ongoing process of automation (and the businesses employing it). Those jobs in China or Mexico or wherever not only won't come back to the US, they'll soon disappear completely. I think other folks, the ones heading for the Reichstag, realize this and have chosen a kind of manic nihilism as their response. Even the investor class is indulging in a bit of mania: take a look at current US stock market activity.

Ironic, don't you think, that the gizmos we've created to make our lives easier and better now have the potential to obsolete most of us? Obsolete us, that is, in as much as we define ourselves in terms of our work. Assuming we don't burn everything to the ground, when only artisans and creatives have genuine jobs what will everyone else do? How long will even those jobs last? I wish I could live long enough to see how this all plays out over the coming centuries.

-Dave-
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Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #209 on: December 16, 2016, 12:08:43 pm »

Prompted by a mention at The Online Photographer I've just bought a copy of Michael Kenna's new expanded version of Rouge, containing photos taken at the famous Ford Motor Company manufacturing plant. Which is located in my "backyard" and which I've toured multiple times. If you'd last seen it in operation in the 1960s, or even in the early/mid '90s when Kenna was photographing it, making a return visit today might leave you wondering if you were in the same place even though it looks much the same on the outside.

The folks railing against the outsourcing of jobs to foreign countries are trying to restart a battle that's already over. The winner wasn't any country but rather the ongoing process of automation (and the businesses employing it). Those jobs in China or Mexico or wherever not only won't come back to the US, they'll soon disappear completely. I think other folks, the ones heading for the Reichstag, realize this and have chosen a kind of manic nihilism as their response. Even the investor class is indulging in a bit of mania: take a look at current US stock market activity.

Ironic, don't you think, that the gizmos we've created to make our lives easier and better now have the potential to obsolete most of us? Obsolete us, that is, in as much as we define ourselves in terms of our work. Assuming we don't burn everything to the ground, when only artisans and creatives have genuine jobs what will everyone else do? How long will even those jobs last? I wish I could live long enough to see how this all plays out over the coming centuries.

-Dave-


It's a sobering thought, and I think you are absolutely on the money. Those shipbuiilding jobs lost on the Tyne and Clyde went mainly to Japan and then Korea and maybe a few cheaper-labour parts of Europe, too. But, as with everything, as you pointed out, as soon as a low-cost economy changes gear upwards, the next lower one takes over. Until the point is reached where nobody can afford to buy anything anymore because they are all unemployed, and the ball stops rolling.

The only solution I can see is one by consent, but one most unlikely to be achieved because it requires everybody to stand still, accept their reorganized relative place in world society, and start anew with the producing of things in specific areas of this world...

The current industrial nations could consolidate and do all world manufacturing; the Mediterranean and Caribbean could become the holiday areas, South America could become the meat production area, the forests protected by international agreement and the death penalty for anyone as much as owning a forest razor without a permit. A total ban on Polar exploration and travel; private cars fuelled by gasoline/diesel banned, and a public transport sytem that works made compulsory in every country. The mountainous areas could all be zoned to produce hydro electricity to an international grid, all skiing Mary Poppinses relegated to the children's books... It could work, if the alternative disaster is accepted as inevitable. Of course, it won't be.

There's the occasional discussion about everybody getting a basic 'wage' even if they are unemployed, and used in place of myriad social handouts; it might work - perhaps. The huge elephant is making the folks doing the newly de-robotised factory work feel comfortable with the concept of their 'holiday' industry co-workers getting similar wages for their kind of labour.

Artists? No, there I think I disagree: I think they will become irrelevant in a brave new philistinian (?) Utopìa.

Rob

Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #210 on: December 16, 2016, 02:23:13 pm »

So a couple of weeks back I went to Amsterdam on a Sunday night for two days of meetings: my original thought was to go a day early to see Lindbergh's exhibition in Rotterdam. Part of the reason I didn't was because I was a bit jaded by reading Lindbergh about how Lindbergh is different and doesn't hide his models under heavy make-up and post-processing... which seemed less and less true as he looked at his work. But he has to survive in the industry, so let me not cast a stone at his greenhouse.

What gets me though is the implicit suggestion that the heavy industry approach to photography is somehow inter-related with digital: I'm not sure it is. I think it's part of the general trend towards paying ever fewer people ever more, while letting everyone else starve. That's great for those at the top of the pole of course, and it probably encourages them to make their shoots more expensive: it's easier to take 10% from a $500k shoot than 50% from a $100k shoot (numbers for illustrative purposes and quite possibly pure fantasy). In fact he could probably market himself as a film traditionalist if he wanted: it wouldn't add so much to the budget having assistants running about re-loading cameras and he could pop a film developing line into the back of one of those semi-trailers. With enough money for bracketing etc, he'd be no more at risk of technical failures than with digital, hence complying with the industrial ethos of error-free production.

I suspect that digital and the concentration of budgets arrived at about the same time by coincidence...


Never mind big numbers for doing a shoot: I'd willingly pay one month's pension for the chance to shoot this lady for an hour or two. I have no idea who would pay her to let me do it. ;-(

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=peter+lindbergh+on+italian+vogue+for+vimeo&&view=detail&mid=E3579BCAE39679F9C5FFE3579BCAE39679F9C5FF&FORM=VRDGAR

Rob
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 03:39:31 pm by Rob C »
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Telecaster

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #211 on: December 16, 2016, 05:10:37 pm »

There's the occasional discussion about everybody getting a basic 'wage' even if they are unemployed, and used in place of myriad social handouts; it might work - perhaps. The huge elephant is making the folks doing the newly de-robotised factory work feel comfortable with the concept of their 'holiday' industry co-workers getting similar wages for their kind of labour.

Artists? No, there I think I disagree: I think they will become irrelevant in a brave new philistinian (?) Utopìa.

Well, I did say artisans. Skilled craftspeople who may be but aren't necessarily artists. (I was thinking in particular of luthiers, some of whom IMO are indeed artists.) But I'm quibbling: creatives certainly includes artists.

When I was in Hawai'i last month I thought some about Ballard's novel Cocaine Nights and its utopian/dystopian "billion balconies facing the sun" populated by people mostly bored out of their skulls, in a world where they're mostly irrelevant, and thus prone to ever more extreme thrill seeking. Having, for a time, a balcony of your own facing the sun puts you in a certain frame of mind. But I think Ballard's scenario is no more than a fantasy. As much as some folks might desire that we all conform to this or that notion of an ideal static existence, humans are far too drawn to novelty to tolerate this for any length of time. Living in harmony, whether by choice or by force, isn't our thing. Sometimes destructive, sometimes creative instability: that's our jam.

-Dave-
« Last Edit: December 16, 2016, 05:18:41 pm by Telecaster »
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Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #212 on: December 17, 2016, 09:32:31 am »

A nice Xmas pressy for somebody:

http://theartofphotography.tv/episodes/dave-heath/

Rob

Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #213 on: December 28, 2016, 08:32:38 am »

https://www.google.es/search?q=Sarah+Moon&tbm=isch&tbs=rimg:CanfZBDEvvamIjjS8_19riOpqG6xpCXx8zPT0LraEPuvqVZHWjaciaYqKt_1m9L-joLLQshHu3Bam4Fu3V18sIdFXncioSCdLz_12uI6mobEdg39K5sz-goKhIJrGkJfHzM9PQRWYqDQwyzEzMqEgkutoQ-6-pVkRE9YMYFl5hfFSoSCdaNpyJpioq3EeRkoHWUi3ZpKhIJ-b0v6OgstCwRS5XOCyReufMqEgmEe7cFqbgW7RGeIZe7-b1ftSoSCdXXywh0VedyEUvshG7YTNo5&tbo=u&gws_rd=ssl#gws_rd=ssl&imgrc=qd9kEMS-9qb-1M%3A

I think, on consideration, that the first image in this series, the three faces, must represent the single picture which, of thousands I have seen and made, must stand as the one I would most have loved to have been able to claim as mine. I have never seen anything in fashion get near to this. It distils and says everything there is to say about grace, serenity and beauty.

What a woman.

Rob C

GrahamBy

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #214 on: January 03, 2017, 10:59:53 am »


Never mind big numbers for doing a shoot: I'd willingly pay one month's pension for the chance to shoot this lady for an hour or two.

Lindbergh's book is in my local Art Books for 60€, so you can keep most of the pension and get the images, if not the flesh :) But then that's a bit like a photo of a Ferrari, si ?

I wonder if part of the issue is the model being strong enough to resist pressure of mediocre photographers/art directors/editors to conform?

Lately I've seen a couple of women I photographed start calling themselves artists, wearing more make-up and ceasing to be people I'd want to photograph. One is now involved romantically with a photog and appears in his photos wearing incredibly thick theatrical make-up. The other is doing etherial fairies in the forest stuff: both want to play roles instead of being themselves... I guess it feels more creative.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 12:33:55 pm by GrahamBy »
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GrahamBy

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #215 on: January 03, 2017, 12:38:04 pm »

Oh, best of another bunch. There is a big exhibition of Matisse here in Lyon, from his early art-school drawings to the end. I was fascinated to see that unlike Picasso who could draw like God and then simplified... Matisse was actually never great at drawing. He finally seemed to master a minimalist representation of a human face when he was 67 and he started working with a rather angular Russian model... but he still couldn't master the female breast.

Here he is in a self-portrait with Lydia in 1936
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Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #216 on: January 05, 2017, 03:55:15 pm »

Oh, best of another bunch. There is a big exhibition of Matisse here in Lyon, from his early art-school drawings to the end. I was fascinated to see that unlike Picasso who could draw like God and then simplified... Matisse was actually never great at drawing. He finally seemed to master a minimalist representation of a human face when he was 67 and he started working with a rather angular Russian model... but he still couldn't master the female breast.

Here he is in a self-portrait with Lydia in 1936

Amazing! She gained a nipple by crossing through Alice's looking glass. (Did Matisse do Beta-testing for Adobe?) In my numerous, and usually unavoidable selfies in shop windows, at most I gain a stronger sense of disillusion. Maybe I need to know a chick called Alice. Inspecting the window selfies will explain the unlikeliness of this event in any helpful way... the right Alice wouldn't get out of her Porsche. (Even Saul often depended on having Soames or perhaps Barbara accompany him in windows and walks...) It would be a cool theme for an experienced writer to pursue: life as lived by your reflection, and your love-life in reflection.

In his (Matisse's not Saul's) defence, if his Lydia was angular, then maybe the coconuts were an expression of kindness?

As anyone who sees my recent work knows, I always look at the brighter side of life first. Okay, I usually ditch it later on when face to face with reality, but that's the difference between pro and am: the pro lives the deception, he has to so do. It's the secret of why those old pros, those who still can, continue to work in the hope of dying in the saddle. That way, they can win by dying, not with the most toys, but with the best dream! Was Avedon's better than Norman Parkinson's; did Hemut laugh all the way to the top of the heap?

One day, I hope to ask them.

"Lindbergh's book is in my local Art Books for 60€, so you can keep most of the pension and get the images, if not the flesh :) But then that's a bit like a photo of a Ferrari, si ?"

Si, but which Lindbergh book - there have been so many of 'em? How can I still admire this guy when I'm also mad with envy? Not of him, really, but of the possibilities in his work. I guess I just can't help giving him credit when its more than worth the giving. He does so much that still looks real and beautiful, warts and all. I don't think he does many selfies.

;-)

Rob C
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 04:06:18 pm by Rob C »
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GrahamBy

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #217 on: January 06, 2017, 03:09:58 am »

Just realised: the "negative space" is the model...
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Rob C

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #218 on: January 06, 2017, 09:11:41 am »

Just realised: the "negative space" is the model...


Don't fret: I just realised she's an Amazon warrior; nothing to do with Russia.

I must be getting old quicker than I'd realised. Or it's the meds.

;-)

Rob

hasselblad2017

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Re: Best of the Bunch
« Reply #219 on: January 07, 2017, 03:34:32 am »

Pretty cool video
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