Canon EF-S a safe bet?

[ollyevans]

During my move to digital I have invested in Canon 350 and an assortment of EF-S lenses (and have never looked back) and read with dismay that there is some doubt about Canons long term commitment to the format now that 35mm sensor costs are coming down.

What are your views?  Have I bought into an evolutionary deadend?

thanks Olly

[drew]

Possibly, but Canon have only just brought the 30D to market. How long an evolutionary dead-end is going to cause you pain?

[Jayhawk]

I thought about this too when I made the jump to digital...for me, it's only an evolutionary dead end when there's a full frame camera body at the price point of the current 1.6x camera bodies.  Would you rather be photographing or waiting for the price of FF bodies to come down?

[rvanr]

Most technologies have a finite lifespan. You have been enjoying using your EF-S lenses and will be able to continue doing that. In 5 or 10 years time there may not be a new Canon camera model that uses these lenses, but that does not mean you wasted your money.

[kbolin]

I've got the answer.... just shoot lots & lots of images.  Then think about the cost in terms of cost per image.  It don't feel so bad then.

Kelly

[ollyevans]

"but Canon have only just brought the 30D to market"

yes but it's not exactly a massive change from the 20D is it?

Do I want to use the lenses and body for the next 5-10 years? Yes, but I want to continue adding and building to this (I would expect to upgrade the body every 3 years) and I'm not likely to invest further if this is good money after bad.

yes technology has a lifespan but Canon might easily decide to focus on EF rather then EF-S.  There is an awful lot of consilidation in the market and I would expect plenty of product line consolidation too.

I think this is a real issue, if consumer confidence dives (mine has) then is it the end?

Olly

[aduke]

"but Canon have only just brought the 30D to market"

yes but it's not exactly a massive change from the 20D is it?

Do I want to use the lenses and body for the next 5-10 years? Yes, but I want to continue adding and building to this (I would expect to upgrade the body every 3 years) and I'm not likely to invest further if this is good money after bad.

yes technology has a lifespan but Canon might easily decide to focus on EF rather then EF-S.  There is an awful lot of consilidation in the market and I would expect plenty of product line consolidation too.

I think this is a real issue, if consumer confidence dives (mine has) then is it the end?

Olly
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   You can use Canon EF lenses on your EF-S body. I've a 10D with no EF-S lenses. The EF lenses may be heavier, but the work well.

Alan

[DarkPenguin]

You're screwed no matter what.  If canon goes EF only (ie full frame only) then either your EF-S lenses will not work or your EF lenses will no longer work the same.  (FOV changes, DOF changes, yada)  Either way you're probably changing lenses.

[drew]

I think this is a real issue, if consumer confidence dives (mine has) then is it the end?

End of what? Life, the Universe and everything?
A sensible approach would be to keep a mix of EF and EFS lenses, with the EFS lenses slanted towards the wide and macro applications. The 30D may not represent much of a change from the 20D, but it confirms Canon's commitment to the APS-C sensor for at least the next two years. Even if a full-frame Canon comes down to the same price point as the current 30D, there will still be a market place for even cheaper DSLRs based on the smaller sensor, just as there was for sub $3-400.00 film SLRs.

[ollyevans]

keep a mix of EF and EFS lenses, with the EFS lenses slanted towards the wide and macro applications
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yes I agree- good advice. Just wish I'd though of that earlier (have EFS short and long telephoto, the wide and macro to add!).  Oh well.

[DarkPenguin]

If by long EF-S telephoto you mean the 55-200 USM II then you have a better lens than the EF equivalents.  (In the same price range.)

[LostBoy]

Don't worry once you move up the food chain you will not find any EF-S 70-200 2.8 lenses  Yes, I know there is one 2.8 EF-S lens on the market.

Seriously, I tend to skip EF-S lenses when I decide what lens I might buy next. This is mainly because I think I might take the step towards a FF sensor once the costs have come down enough.
As there are not too many different EF-S lenses on the market, extending the sortiment will not really lead you into the EF-S realm again

However I like my EF-S 10-22 which came with camera in a used set bargain
Anyway I don't think that Canon will abandon EF-S anytime soon.

[Blendenteufel]

From my point of view I know I will upgrade sooner or later to an 5D or 1Ds with Full Frame sensor or maybe only to an 1.3x sensor. But the lenses I invest in (L-grade or not) should last longer than my choice of body, therefor I only buy EF lenses that fit all sensor sizes.

In general, to have lenses only as Canon mount (or any other) is "discriminating" enough so I dont feel like have one more restriction in form of smaller image circle.

[gochugogi]

I just upgraded to a 5D so I'm glad I stayed away from EF-s.

[jani]

If by long EF-S telephoto you mean the 55-200 USM II then you have a better lens than the EF equivalents.  (In the same price range.)

The 55-200 USM II is an EF lens, not an EF-S lens.

[DarkPenguin]

Yep.

[BJL]

I have ... read with dismay that there is some doubt about Canons long term commitment to the format now that 35mm sensor costs are coming down.

What are your views?  Have I bought into an evolutionary deadend?
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My view?: ignore the size-obsessed know-it-all internet forum chicken littles who claim that the overwhelmingly dominant digital specific SLR formats like EF-S, DX and 4/3 are going to be displaced by any larger format. Instead listen to the words and look at the actions of the SLR makers (and camera buyers): every successful SLR maker including Canon is set on new digital specific SLR formats for at least the vast majority (and in most cases all) of their SLR products and sales, and none including Canon has shown any hint of abandoning their chosen new digital specific formats for a larger one like 35mm.


Q Have you heard this dismaying prediction of Canon abandoning EF-S from Canon.
A: No, only from the peanut gallery of internet forums and such.

Q: Did technological progress and cost reductions ever cause a move away from 35mm format towards the larger medium formats?
A: Of couse not; instead the opposite has happened over and over again. As films/sensors (and lenses) improve in resolution and sensitivity, the performance of any given format improves, an decreasing proportion of photographers are disatisfied enough with a format to instead buy and carry the bigger lenses and such needed to get any advantage from a larger format, and so there is if anything a shift in the overall distribution of camera usage towards smaller formats, not towards larger ones. That has been true all the way from 8"x10" to 4"x5" to medium format to 35mm format to EF-S, DX and 4/3, not to mention that well over 90% of camera sales are now in formats far smaller than EF-S.

[SmithRS]

Hi everyone.  Long time listener, first time caller.

I was skeptical until I saw Canon come out with the 17-85 IS and the
10-22 EF-S lenses.  I think Canon has met it's "burden of proof" that
it's taking the 1.6x format seriously.  I think the full-frame debate
has already shifted in the direction of 1.6x for the "Prosumer" and
full frame for the pros, and even taking market share away from medium
format.

The EOS system is going on 20 years now and Canon seems able to keep
it alive and well, and expand it to suit the needs of digital.  They
have always been "conservative" about making changes so I think we can
take what's going on at face value, that is, the introduction of
better EF-S lenses means we can get settled in and figure it's going
to be this way for at least the next 5-10 years until something really
revolutionary happens, which could possibly look like not even having
to worry things like about ISO, shutter speed, and aperture any more.

[ollyevans]

"My view?: ignore the size-obsessed know-it-all internet forum chicken littles who claim that the overwhelmingly dominant digital specific SLR formats like EF-S .... and none including Canon has shown any hint of abandoning their chosen new digital specific formats for a larger one like 35mm."

"Q Have you heard this dismaying prediction of Canon abandoning EF-S from Canon.
A: No, only from the peanut gallery of internet forums and such."


BJL, thank you for your comments.  

I don't suppose for a minute that Canon will broadcast any business strategy before it goes to market especially one which will undermine its market share so your Q&A above seems an odd concept.

My concerns did not come from the sources you mention above but from the UK based 'Digital Photographer' magazine.  In issue 43 in their otherwise positive review of the new EF-S 60mm Macro they say "the only other concern we have with this lens is Canon's long-term commitment to this mount, considering its stated intention to pursue the development of full frame digital bodies as the price of the technologies drops.  How many more camera bodies this lens will fit in the future is open to conjecture, as is your own likelihood of upgrading".

This sort of review is only one persons view (the journalist) but it is enough to make me think twice about buying such a lens (even if it is cheaper than the 100m macro).

My intention was to understand whether other people shared this view.

[BJL]

My concerns did not come from the sources you mention above but from the UK based 'Digital Photographer' magazine.  In issue 43 in their otherwise positive review of the new EF-S 60mm Macro they say "the only other concern we have with this lens is Canon's long-term commitment to this mount, considering its stated intention to pursue the development of full frame digital bodies as the price of the technologies drops.  How many more camera bodies this lens will fit in the future is open to conjecture, as is your own likelihood of upgrading".
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To be blunt (about that magazine, not you), a lot of photographic magazine writers belong squarely in the peanut gallery in my mind; so many of them are part of an old guard of 35mm and medium format film enthusiasts who are in denial about the realities of digital technology and the direction in which it is driving the photographic market place and product designs. These are the folks who a few years ago were telling us that it would take 40M to match 35mm film, and who keep telling us that SLR formats smaller than 35mm suffer a "wide angle crop disadvantage", as if they are totally unaware of the new wide angle lens options of Canon EF-S, Nikon DX, Olympus Zuiko Digital, Pentax DA etc.

(Aside on the wide angle "problem" of the new DSLR formats: Canon's 10-22 EF-S goes as wide as any 35mm format zoom from Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Konica-Minolta or Olympus; the Olympus 7-14 is for the even smaller 4/3 format and yet goes even wider, as wide as any 35mm format rectlinear lens, prime or zoom, from any of those major SLR makers.)

The bottom line reality is that Canon's EF-S DSLR system is probably the best selling SLR format of all time, and its share of Canon's total sales has increased in the years since the introduction of the 1Ds, despite the addition of the far more afforable 5D to Canon's larger format options.


To paraphrase Groucho Marx, "who are you going to believe, some magazine writer's fact-free speculation or your own eyes?"