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Author Topic: Otus, Milvus or Batis?  (Read 8769 times)

ErikKaffehr

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Otus, Milvus or Batis?
« on: February 12, 2016, 11:33:03 am »

Hi,

I have been checking out MTF data and resolution chart images on the Zeiss Milvus 85/1.4, Otus 85/1.4 and Batis 85/1.9. What I have found is that the Milvus 85/1.4 is quite impressive.

No doubt, the Otus is shining at f/1.4, but I would say the MTF is better for the Milvus at f/4. Now, MTF data doesn't say all about a lens. Axial chroma would affect MTF very little, and this is the one area where I think the Otus excels.

But, if we shoot at f/4 or below I would guess that the Milvus and Batis are shining as bright, or even brighter, than the Otus 85/1.4. Is this heresy?

Best regards
Erik
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Otus, Milvus or Batis?
« Reply #1 on: February 12, 2016, 12:31:53 pm »

Veni, vidi, vici.

Oh, wait...this thread isn't about Latin phrases? Damn! Then again, I never heard of "Otus, Milvus, Batis" before :P

Alan Goldhammer

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Re: Otus, Milvus or Batis?
« Reply #2 on: February 12, 2016, 01:51:11 pm »

Veni, vidi, vici.

Oh, wait...this thread isn't about Latin phrases? Damn! Then again, I never heard of "Otus, Milvus, Batis" before :P
Get thee back to grammar school!!
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RobertJ

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westfreeman

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Re: Otus, Milvus or Batis?
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2016, 11:14:30 am »

Sometimes I think all of the MTF data means nothing if the weight of the lens puts the camera out of balance for you the photographer.  And heck how much $$$$ do we want to spend on lenses?  I have the Zeiss Batis 25mm for my Sony A7II and Sony A7RII and it is one of the best lenses I've ever used, Just Love it.  I would love to see a Batis 40mm as I'm not to keen on the 50 field of view.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Otus, Milvus or Batis?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2016, 12:34:09 am »

Hi,

Jim Kasson made some practical tests of his own 85 mm lenses, not including the Milvus.

His test confirms the greatness of the Otus but it also confirms the goodness of the Batis. He also found that the lenses are pretty good at f/4.

Jim is a scientist, so he goes on showing more curves than you ever have seen, and yes that Batis is very good.

What is interesting to me is that the Otus is made to perform really excellent at f/1.4 and they have used a lot of expensive optical glass to eliminate out of focus fringing at full aperture.

The old 85/1.4 was pretty much a simple Planar kind of lens, six lenses in a double gauss configuration.  while the Otus and Milvus have quite similar designs with 11 lenses, the Batis also has 11 lenses but in a different configuration.

So, my conclusion is that:

  • I would buy the Otus if perfect performance at f/1.4 was most important for me.
  • The Milvus seems to be an affordable alternative to the Otus except at large aperturess.
  • The Batis is very good and probably matches the Otus when stopped down slightly and it has AF

Of the three I would buy the Batis. I ordered the Batis initially, but cancelled my order and bought the Sony 90/2.8G instead. With what is known today I would have stayed with the Batis.

Best regards
Erik

Sometimes I think all of the MTF data means nothing if the weight of the lens puts the camera out of balance for you the photographer.  And heck how much $$$$ do we want to spend on lenses?  I have the Zeiss Batis 25mm for my Sony A7II and Sony A7RII and it is one of the best lenses I've ever used, Just Love it.  I would love to see a Batis 40mm as I'm not to keen on the 50 field of view.
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DaveCurtis

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Re: Otus, Milvus or Batis?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2016, 02:09:41 am »

To me the Otus ticks all the boxes. It ticks all the technical boxes and it has wonderful rendering and to me that is quite a design achievement.

In the past to get really nice rendering certain aberrations need to be left in the design.

Ok it doesn't tick the price and AF boxes ;-)

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Manoli

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Re: Otus, Milvus or Batis?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2016, 03:56:58 am »

Jim Kasson made some practical tests of his own 85 mm lenses, not including the Milvus.
His test confirms the greatness of the Otus [...]

He did, BUT with a few caveats ...

Quote
Measuring on-axis performance of top-notch lenses at their optimum f-stops is hugely dependent on accurate focusing. Even with the Sony’s excellent focus aids, I have been unable to consistently duplicate on-axis MTF50 with the Otus 55 and the Otus 85. Therefore, the numbers at wide apertures should be taken with a reasonably large quantity of salt.

The first thing that jumped out at me was the Batis f/2 number, which is slightly better (a tie, really) than the Otus. This is not a glitch. All four edges gave similar results, and all four edges of the not-shown f/1.8 shot we only slightly worse. I think the reason has to be better focus with the Batis [...] When focusing on the Siemens star, the Batis was far and away the easiest and most repeatable in the focusing department. The Otus felt the best, of course, and was probably second, but small motions of the Otus long-throw focusing ring produced large variations in the moire patterns that I was using to focus.

No surprises, except take a look at the Otus numbers for on-axis MTF30 at f/2.8, f/4, and f/5.6! They are essentially at the monochrome Nyquist limit for the a7RII sensor, which means that with the right (or the wrong, depending on how you look at it) subject, the Otus on the a7RII is going to alias all over the place.

http://blog.kasson.com/?m=201602

and finally the conundrum:

Quote
One thing this test proves is the LaCA is not the most important spec, since the Leica measures the worst and looks beautiful ... Keep in mind that LaCA is one of the easiest lens aberrations to fix in post.

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=13169
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Herbc

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Re: Otus, Milvus or Batis?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2016, 10:41:22 am »

I have both Batis's (Bati?) and just got my hands on a Loxia 35.  As a landscape photographer, I think my choice would be Loxia primarily because MF gives me a better sense of control, and MF is generally smaller. 8)
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Otus, Milvus or Batis?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2016, 02:07:24 pm »

Hi,

The area where the Otus really shines is correction of axial chromatic aberration at large aperture. This aberration usually shows up in bokeh type shots with green/magenta fringing in out of focus areas.

Another observation may be that lenses that are very sharp will produces artefacts on fine detail with non OLP filtered systems. An image from a very sharp lens at optimum aperture will show a lot of artificial detail on non OLP filtered sensors. Going to say two micron sensors would eliminate that problem, mostly.

A lens that does not outresolve the sensor will give a smoother rendition. But this is not a lens issue or a sensor issue. It is a photographer issue, with buyers who want maximum "micro-contrast" and no OLP filters.

Best regards
Erik


He did, BUT with a few caveats ...

http://blog.kasson.com/?m=201602

and finally the conundrum:

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=13169
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