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Author Topic: Sony A7RII and Capture One  (Read 6994 times)

jemadsen

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Sony A7RII and Capture One
« on: January 23, 2016, 10:13:32 am »

Hi

Having been playing around with my new A7RII since monday, including setting up a separate catalog in Ligtroom for Sony raw pictures, and doing some processing and printing, I come to think that maybe there would be a gain in using Capture One, which Sony supplies with the camera.

I haven't seen any indications that Capture One should be better than Lightroom on Sony files - raw uncompressed at 85 MB - but maybe someone in this forum has arguments for it.

As there is a learning curve involved I would prefer to continue using LR as I have done for several years on my Nikon files, but on the other hand I would also very much like to extract the maximum from the .arw's.

Regards Johannes
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Johannes Elkjaer Madsen

pegelli

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2016, 02:50:51 pm »

To have the same functionality as lightroom you need to shell out the money for the Pro version, the free version has less functionality as compared to lightroom.

I'm currently using both Lightroom and C1-9 pro (for Sony).

Some of my initial impressions are:
1) for most cases raw rendering in C1 is slightly better then Lightroom (noise, sharpness, detail extraction)
2) for most cases this difference is very small and probably not visible unless you print very large
3) Lightroom's implementation of the image database is way more robust then C1 (so all my pictures go into LR, only the ones I think can benefit from C1 also go in there)
4) User friendlyness of Lightroom is much better in certain areas (for instance in LR you immediately see the effect of a mask, in C1 you first draw the mask, then you move the sliders to see the effect)
5) The custom color editor in C1 is awesome, and more flexible then the HSL sliders in LR
6) The user interface of LR is fixed, in C1 highly customizable, which is handy for some jobs/workflows
7) LR "seems" to create more headroom in highlights and shadows by making up colors when pixels are blown or blocked. In most cases the results are very presentable. C1 doesn't do this (or much less).
8 ) Perspective corrections in C1 are better, easier to operate and more flexible then in LR
9) Keywording, rating, color labeling are easier in LR (more different ways to get it done), Flagging is exclusive to LR (C1 doesn't have it)
10) C1 is way faster snapping to focus and exporting pictures. The more I use C1 the more I dislike the "Loading" spinner in LR. It's really a big difference.

This is all that comes to mind now after using (and liking) C1 pro, I'm sure there will be much more when I gain more experience.

In short, I like C1-pro but I wouldn't want to be without LR
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 03:18:33 pm by pegelli »
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pieter, aka pegelli

mgrayson

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2016, 03:13:47 pm »

4) User friendlyness of Lightroom is much better in certain areas (for instance in LR you immediately see the effect of a mask, in C1 you first draw the mask, then you move the sliders to see the effect)

Try adjusting the sliders for the desired effect. Then you see the effect as you brush on the mask.

--Matt

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AlterEgo

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2016, 03:33:17 pm »

To gain something over lightroom you need to shell out the money for the Pro version, otherwise you're taking a step back.
in matters of taste that is not correct - somebody might simply like a dcraw over LR  ;D
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pegelli

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2016, 03:41:17 pm »

Try adjusting the sliders for the desired effect. Then you see the effect as you brush on the mask.

--Matt
Doesn't work for the gradient mask, it only shows the effect after you let the mouse-button go. Also if you want to create more gradient masks you must not forget to go back and hit "+" otherwise your previous mask will be erased. In Lightroom you just place a new pointer and move on.

Other disadvantage of C1 that I forgot to mention : 11) No history in C1
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 03:35:39 am by pegelli »
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pieter, aka pegelli

pegelli

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2016, 03:43:39 pm »

in matters of taste that is not correct - somebody might simply like a dcraw over LR  ;D
Not a matter of taste, there's too much functionality missing in C1-free vs. LR so you do take a step back.
Whether or not you like this step is indeed a matter of taste.
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pieter, aka pegelli

Jeff Griffin

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2016, 03:57:25 am »

Soon after it was released I only used the, free,  Express  ( for Sony ) for a few days  and then realised what a good deal the upgrade price to the Pro for Sony version was.

At the time when I bought it the price was still considerably cheaper than, say,  upgrading from Lightroom 5 to Lightroom 6.

Here in the UK it is currently 50 Euros ( £38 ) and I suggest worth it for the extra features that are available.  ( e.g. The Advanced Tab in the Color Editor tool )
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2016, 04:21:15 am »

Hi,

My take is that if you want a "Jack of all trades" tool, Lightroom is a pretty god choice. Many Lightroom users can finish up something like 90% of their images in LR.

On the other hand, for one who just needs a raw converter and does a lot of processing in Photoshop I would guess C1 offers some advantages.

What I see foremost is that C1 does a better job on basic raw conversion, causing less artefacts in demosaic. On the other hand, Mark Segal made the point that if those artefacts are not visible in large prints they may not matter, a good point.

I recently did look at some crops from 40x60 sized prints created with C1, LR6 and using sharpening by Focus magic or the one in LR6. On close scrutiny the C1/FocusMagic image was a bit better.

Phase One puts a lot of effort in generating camera profiles, and you can cheat a bit by using the IQ-250 profile for your Sony A7rII image.

With Lightroom there are easy to use camera calibration tools, DNG Profile Editor or ColorChecker Passport software. So, if you shoot under some weird light conditions like LED light, you can generate a DNG profile for that illuminant.

Anders Torger's DCamProf can handle both ICC for C1 and DNG Color Profiles for Adobe (and most other programs), but has a steeper learning curve.

Best regards
Erik


Hi

Having been playing around with my new A7RII since monday, including setting up a separate catalog in Ligtroom for Sony raw pictures, and doing some processing and printing, I come to think that maybe there would be a gain in using Capture One, which Sony supplies with the camera.

I haven't seen any indications that Capture One should be better than Lightroom on Sony files - raw uncompressed at 85 MB - but maybe someone in this forum has arguments for it.

As there is a learning curve involved I would prefer to continue using LR as I have done for several years on my Nikon files, but on the other hand I would also very much like to extract the maximum from the .arw's.

Regards Johannes
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Erik Kaffehr
 

Manoli

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2016, 05:02:35 am »

In short, I like C1-pro but I wouldn't want to be without LR

you don't need to anymore - have a look at this Lr plugin
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=107350.msg883896#msg883896

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WalterH

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2016, 11:36:03 am »

There are clearly strengths and weaknesses in both applications - rehashed many times.

I strongly suggest you download the C1 trial at a time when you can make full use of it within the 30-day period. You will need that time to get beyond some basic learning curve to get in the flow of C1. You just have to judge for yourself if it's handling of your images is something that improves upon LR or not.

For me, shooting Fuji, a resounding yes. I miss the refined data mgt of LR, sharpening mask, noise reduction (although less so now) and how well LR handles purple fringing, integration with social media, etc. Everything else I like much, much more about C1 and the upgrade to version 9 is really significant to me - the luma curve - huge!, the now really useful brightness slider, etc. The color editor is excellent.

I am still slower in C1 but I love what I get out of the images. I also started by exporting from LR to C1, render and apply basic adjustments, resync to a folder in LR. As I got deeper with C1, it felt a little bewildering to operate both platforms. I still turn to LR for some discrete tasks, but rarely.

Just gotta try it and compare to see if its right for you.
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AlterEgo

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2016, 11:49:38 am »

Not a matter of taste
but it is... for example I use ACR and not LR because I have absolutely taste for imposed DAM  ;D
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AlterEgo

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2016, 12:02:35 pm »

Doesn't work for the gradient mask
believe it or not - I never used that neither in ACR nor C1...  there are all kind of users out there, so again - it is a matter of taste, because whether it is the same or different functionality you always have some inner like or dislike how things are done - so people still tend to prefer what they like over what is more capable... I wear sneakers with flat sole, which is so old - but I like it over way more ergonomic sole designs no matter what... same goes for raw converters.
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jemadsen

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2016, 02:06:02 pm »

Hi all, thanks for all the replies.

I have come to the conclusion that I shall stay with Lightroom and the implies comfort of knowing my tool while I learn the camera.

With this reflection comes the fact that I am on a loaner lens - Sony Sonnar FE 2,8 / 35 mm - until my two Zeiss Loxia lenses ( 35 / 50 mm) emerges from backorder status.

After that I will take out time to try Capture 1 with some of my favorite pictures.

I really love the LR Catalog with its rich DAM functions. And development and printing works fine for me on Nikon files, so introducing a new tool would be a practical backdrop.

But of course there shouldn't be details hidden in the Sony files that will never come to light in LR.

Regards Johannes
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Regards
Johannes Elkjaer Madsen

pegelli

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Re: Sony A7RII and Capture One
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2016, 02:54:05 pm »

you don't need to anymore - have a look at this Lr plugin
http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=107350.msg883896#msg883896
Thanks, I'll give that a try.
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pieter, aka pegelli
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