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Author Topic: display color differences in different apps  (Read 1782 times)

sgwrx

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display color differences in different apps
« on: December 28, 2015, 11:34:55 pm »

hello.  i happened to be working on a black and white conversion tonight in C1 Pro 8. My selected recipe 16bit PSD ProPhoto. "Selected recipe" was set in C1 viewer display profile.  i launched PS and OK'd using the embedded profile but the image looked much different (see attached). it printed just fine, looked like i expected from the C1 viewer. my monitor is calibrated and profiled with colormunki photo, but the monitor is not a high-end, just a dell 2412 ips 6bit+ (interpolated 8bit or whatever it is). i did not have ps set to preview the paper output. just wondering why the difference?

thanks,
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SeanPerry

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Re: display color differences in different apps
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2016, 11:46:20 am »

hello sgwrx!

Did you discover anything further about this?

I have noticed a similar peculiarity too. In Capture One Pro v9.0.3 I am set to preview/soft proof selected recipe, in this case 16bit ProPhoto. When opened in Photoshop, with no colorspace conversion (the file opens as 16bit ProPhoto) the file looks and prints differently. It is posterized slightly in deep dark tones. The version in C1 is not. I need to test further, but wondered if anyone else has had this behavior. This behavior is mirrored in the test prints, not just the display.

I will test further, but I found it unexpected in the way I understood how C1 and PS worked with color management. If I am seeing ProPhoto in C1 and open into ProPhoto in PS, is it normal to expect small subtle shifts?

Welcome any insight from others too, thank you +

Sean.
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tho_mas

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Re: display color differences in different apps
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2016, 01:59:14 pm »

Although C1 is fully color managmened and - if everything is set correctly - is great to work with regarding color accuracy there is one pretty anoying detail that does not work as supposed to: black point compensation.
Black point compensation for the translation to the output profile is automatically applied "under the hood" (which is basically a good thing). But it is only applied when the output profile is matrix based. It is not applied when the output profile is table based. The latter goes for printer profiles but also goes for input profiles. So when you select to embed the camera profile on output BPC is not enabled (since the "camera profile" is table based)... and this affects the translation to the monitor profile.
It's a real pitty that Phase One does not simply add a switch to enable/disable BPC in the color prefs. I've been asking for this feature for years...
And it's also really absurd since Phase One advocates to embed the camera profile on output.
Workaround for those who like to embed the camera profile: select "embed camera profile" in the output tab but set ProPhoto RGB as "proof profile" in the view-menu. In this case BPC is applied since ProPhoto RGB is matrix based. Another workaround is to select ProPhoto RGB as output recipe while editing but switch to "embed camera profile" when processing ...


 
« Last Edit: February 10, 2016, 02:06:16 pm by tho_mas »
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SeanPerry

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Re: display color differences in different apps
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2016, 10:14:21 pm »

hi tho_mas,

Thank you for the information, very interesting... What I still don't understand is why ProPhoto would show a shift into PS, it is matrix based as you describe and I should be seeing on screen the output recipe selected with bpc. (ProPhoto) I don;t believe the file behaves this way going from LR to PS, but I need to test more.

If I output as embedded camera profile, I still then need to convert to a gray balanced working space and the anomaly is still there. I was curious, where did you see Phase recommend outputting to a camera profile? I will keep testing, thank you again for your help!
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tho_mas

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Re: display color differences in different apps
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2016, 03:08:50 am »

What I still don't understand is why ProPhoto would show a shift into PS, it is matrix based as you describe and I should be seeing on screen the output recipe selected with bpc. (ProPhoto)
Don't know what's going on here ... an my machine I can't replicate such a behavier - the C1 previews and the respective processed TIFs match 100% here (screenshots of the very same section of an image at 100% magnification assembled on layers and layer mode set to "difference" show no difference at all...).
The issue you are facing may be related to your monitor profile...

Quote
If I output as embedded camera profile, I still then need to convert to a gray balanced working space and the anomaly is still there.
the input profiles (so called "camera profiles") of Phase One utilzed in C1 all feature a neutral grey axis (reproducing Gamma 1.8). This is why the "camera profiles" in C1 could be better described as "camera specific working spaces". So actually there is no need to convert to any other working space. Since the "camera profiles" are input class profiles you can't use them for compositions in Photoshop, though (you can't convert any other color space into an input color space).
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