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Author Topic: Topaz Labs Clarity?  (Read 19177 times)

Pictus

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2015, 09:30:48 am »

I use wide gamut monitor and no problem here, uninstall and download the plug-in again.
Topaz update the plug-ins but do not change the version number...
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2015, 10:30:02 am »

I use wide gamut monitor and no problem here, uninstall and download the plug-in again.
Topaz update the plug-ins but do not change the version number...

That's correct, but although perhaps confusing, they do show the build date in the 'About' menu option of the plugin settings. Don't know if I have the latest, but I've attached what my current version (for Windows) shows.

Cheers,
Bart
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earlybird

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2015, 10:40:46 am »

I went ahead and bought a license for Clarity.

I am still not sure if it is useful for the "natural" look I am interested in. My early impression is that Topaz Clarity may be better suited to making stuff look less natural and more stylized with a contemporary desaturated color cast look.

It is certainly not simply increasing a bit of the mid range contrast the way the "clarity" slider in Adobe Camera RAW does. The intellicolor feature seems interesting and learning about it has helped me understand why the Topaz Clarity contrast sliders have such a dramatic *add or remove black* effect with little saturation response.

I find that using the clarity parameter in Adobe Camera RAW is helpful and I was hoping to find something very similar for use at later stages in a Photoshop processing. I don't think I have found what I was hoping for yet.

The Topaz Clarity processing seems clunky and slow so it seems impossible to slide through a range of adjustment while looking for a sweet spot. It feels more like hunt and peck or set and wait, but I remain interested in exploring the ability to work with the different contrast sliders. It probably works better with smaller files than I am using.

The other thing that I find less than ideal is the lengthy menu of sliders whereby small adjustments that I have made get hidden from view. I think I'd like to be able to see all or most of the sliders at once and would gladly trade the display area on the left which is for preset lists for a double column of sliders in the right margin so I could see all the parameters at once.

At times it seems like using it is more of an exercise in exploring change as a diversion rather than as a vehicle to get to where I want to go. I guess the easiest way to describe how I feel is that I would be just as happy to pay for a simple algorithm as some people are happy to pay for a complex stack of them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 10:43:56 am by earlybird »
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Pictus

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #23 on: December 31, 2015, 03:09:44 pm »

That's correct, but although perhaps confusing, they do show the build date in the 'About' menu option of the plugin settings. Don't know if I have the latest, but I've attached what my current version (for Windows) shows.

Same here...
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rdonson

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #24 on: December 31, 2015, 03:26:43 pm »

For the Mac....

Topaz Clarity reports that I'm running the latest version and no updates are available.

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Ron

rdonson

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #25 on: December 31, 2015, 03:39:02 pm »

Topaz update the plug-ins but do not change the version number...

If that's true then the development staff at Topaz are not very professional in their approach.  How they heck do they support their products if this is true?
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Ron

hubell

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #26 on: December 31, 2015, 05:41:24 pm »

I went ahead and bought a license for Clarity.

I am still not sure if it is useful for the "natural" look I am interested in. My early impression is that Topaz Clarity may be better suited to making stuff look less natural and more stylized with a contemporary desaturated color cast look.

It is certainly not simply increasing a bit of the mid range contrast the way the "clarity" slider in Adobe Camera RAW does. The intellicolor feature seems interesting and learning about it has helped me understand why the Topaz Clarity contrast sliders have such a dramatic *add or remove black* effect with little saturation response.

I find that using the clarity parameter in Adobe Camera RAW is helpful and I was hoping to find something very similar for use at later stages in a Photoshop processing. I don't think I have found what I was hoping for yet.

The Topaz Clarity processing seems clunky and slow so it seems impossible to slide through a range of adjustment while looking for a sweet spot. It feels more like hunt and peck or set and wait, but I remain interested in exploring the ability to work with the different contrast sliders. It probably works better with smaller files than I am using.

The other thing that I find less than ideal is the lengthy menu of sliders whereby small adjustments that I have made get hidden from view. I think I'd like to be able to see all or most of the sliders at once and would gladly trade the display area on the left which is for preset lists for a double column of sliders in the right margin so I could see all the parameters at once.

At times it seems like using it is more of an exercise in exploring change as a diversion rather than as a vehicle to get to where I want to go. I guess the easiest way to describe how I feel is that I would be just as happy to pay for a simple algorithm as some people are happy to pay for a complex stack of them.
Try going to the General presets and clicking on the Microcontrast Boost 1 and detuning from there. That usually works well for me.

Peano

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #27 on: December 31, 2015, 08:26:51 pm »

Topaz obviously provides updates for Clarity. If you're worried about whether your version is the latest, just check for updates.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2015, 09:19:58 pm »

I went ahead and bought a license for Clarity.

Hi,

Well, you were just in time for their discount, so you're set for any future updates and version upgrades which will be free. Obviously, if and when there will be an update or upgrade depends on the popularity of the plugin, and whether a feature upgrade will offer them enough pay back for the R&D investment. They are a normal commercial company, with the possible exception of their business model. Free updates/upgrades for life, means they need to produce new plugins regularly, or upgrade existing ones, if they want to fund their organisation with new customers joining in.

Luckily, their new plugins are really adding a lot of workflow benefits, and several existing plugins are apparently so popular that they are relatively frequently upgraded with real new functionality and user interface improvements. So it's not like they are milking an existing product to death.

Quote
I am still not sure if it is useful for the "natural" look I am interested in. My early impression is that Topaz Clarity may be better suited to making stuff look less natural and more stylized with a contemporary desaturated color cast look.

"Less natural" depends on how one uses the plugin, and based on which preprocessing it has to do its thing. It's not a desaturated color cast look, it just doesn't create a color cast like other products do. On top of that it allows to adjust Hue/Saturation/Luminance, and even do that locally (with intelligent masks).

Quote
It is certainly not simply increasing a bit of the mid range contrast the way the "clarity" slider in Adobe Camera RAW does. The intellicolor feature seems interesting and learning about it has helped me understand why the Topaz Clarity contrast sliders have such a dramatic *add or remove black* effect with little saturation response.

Intellicolor as a technology is hugely important to give the user control over all aspects of contrast. Separating luminance from chromaticity is something that more plugin makers should offer, and only few do.

Quote
I find that using the clarity parameter in Adobe Camera RAW is helpful and I was hoping to find something very similar for use at later stages in a Photoshop processing. I don't think I have found what I was hoping for yet.

The Topaz Clarity processing seems clunky and slow so it seems impossible to slide through a range of adjustment while looking for a sweet spot. It feels more like hunt and peck or set and wait, but I remain interested in exploring the ability to work with the different contrast sliders. It probably works better with smaller files than I am using.

This sounds odd to me, since the response on my computers is almost real-time, which allows to fine-tune the sliders on the go.

Quote
The other thing that I find less than ideal is the lengthy menu of sliders whereby small adjustments that I have made get hidden from view. I think I'd like to be able to see all or most of the sliders at once and would gladly trade the display area on the left which is for preset lists for a double column of sliders in the right margin so I could see all the parameters at once.

I agree tha t at times it would be useful to have more sliders available without having to collaps/unfold sub categories, but that is typically a GUI improvement that requires a lot of thought and feedback, because it depends on one's display/font size as well. The higher the display resolution, the more sliders will fit, but not everybody has the highest display resolutions on all of their systems.

Quote
At times it seems like using it is more of an exercise in exploring change as a diversion rather than as a vehicle to get to where I want to go. I guess the easiest way to describe how I feel is that I would be just as happy to pay for a simple algorithm as some people are happy to pay for a complex stack of them.

Again, maybe depending on hardware and GPU acceleration, I do not experience any sluggishness, so I see instant feedback which helps the creative process. I doubt whether the complexity of adjusting Clarity with multiple contrast levels, and HSL controls, and separate masking for each, can be done with a simple algorithm.

Cheers,
Bart
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earlybird

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #29 on: December 31, 2015, 11:13:00 pm »

Hi Bart,
 I'm working with files from my Canon 5DS R with a i7 equipped Win 7 laptop so I think this is why I experience the performance as sluggish. Most of my other plugins and filters seem adequately responsive with these large files on my laptop.

 My desktop system is much more robust but I am rarely there to use it.

 
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Peano

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #30 on: December 31, 2015, 11:17:24 pm »

I am still not sure if it is useful for the "natural" look I am interested in. My early impression is that Topaz Clarity may be better suited to making stuff look less natural and more stylized with a contemporary desaturated color cast look.

Clarity, like any other plug-in, is a tool. In some hands, a hammer makes everything look dented. In other hands, a hammer makes everything fit together so well, no one suspects a hammer was any part of the process.

earlybird

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2015, 11:30:02 pm »

Yes, the sage old hammer analogies.

An oldtimer once told me that it is ok to admit that a hammer may not be the best tool for installing wood screws.

That shouldn't dissuade anyone from remaining optimistic about the possibilities.

 ;)
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LesPalenik

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #32 on: January 01, 2016, 06:15:33 am »

Hi Bart,
 I'm working with files from my Canon 5DS R with a i7 equipped Win 7 laptop so I think this is why I experience the performance as sluggish. Most of my other plugins and filters seem adequately responsive with these large files on my laptop.

 My desktop system is much more robust but I am rarely there to use it.

One way to speed up the process with very large files (unless you are already doing so), is to change 16 bits image mode to 8 bits and ProPhoto to RBG workspace.
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rdonson

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2016, 11:03:22 am »

Topaz obviously provides updates for Clarity. If you're worried about whether your version is the latest, just check for updates.

Well, they have the CAPABILITY of providing updates but there is NO evidence they've done so.  We've all checked for updates.  Other Topaz products easily identify their version number as greater than 1.0.0.
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Regards,
Ron

Peano

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2016, 12:38:45 pm »

Well, they have the CAPABILITY of providing updates but there is NO evidence they've done so. 

The build date of the current version is later than the original release date of Clarity. Isn't that evidence of updating?

Les Sparks

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2016, 02:17:46 pm »

I'm a fan of Topaz Clarity, but finding updates (or if updates are available) is nearly impossible. My version shows May 2013 Bart's screen shot shows Oct 2013 checking the update option shows my version is up to date. The Topaz web site doesn't provide any information about build number of date. The only way to determine if my version is the latest is to download the version from the website and install it. Something that I'm not inclined to do since my version seems to be OK and I don't have any idea about what, if anything, the more up to date? version fixes.
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rdonson

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2016, 03:31:02 pm »

The build date of the current version is later than the original release date of Clarity. Isn't that evidence of updating?

I haven't seen that.  What I've seen is different build dates based on OS being used.
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Ron

Jack Hogan

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2016, 05:04:34 pm »

Uninstalled Clarity 1.0.0, re-downloaded and re-installed Clarity 1.0.0.  My build is the same as Bart's now, and unless I am doing something wrong, color management is still broke as per my 2013 communication with Topaz above.  Adobe RGB image in PS in the background (top), simply opened in Clarity in the foreground (bottom, showing original image):



The difference in the blues is pretty obvious on both my calibrated sRGB and wide gamut displays.

Jack
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Peano

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2016, 06:02:35 pm »

Very odd that you're seeing such a difference in the blues. I have the same build as Bart, so I ran a similar test, sRGB 8-bit jpeg. Here is a screen shot of how it was rendered in Photoshop CS6 (top) and Topaz Clarity. The sample points are 51x51 to get a decent average. I don't regard this difference in RBG values as significant.

I'm wondering if the difference you're seeing might be caused by the way your graphics card works with PS and Clarity. I don't know, just a possibility to consider.

Below that is a second test with a 16-bit tiff in ProPhoto RGB.

« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 06:24:22 pm by Peano »
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Pictus

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Re: Topaz Labs Clarity?
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2016, 07:10:01 pm »

The difference in the blues is pretty obvious on both my calibrated sRGB and wide gamut displays.

Mystery...
I do not know...
But here(Windows 10 x64) the monitor profile is Version 2 made by Argyll+dispcalGUI, both matrix and LUT works well...
Maybe yours are Version 4?

Here also in Photoshop menu Edit>Preferences>Performance>Graphics Processor Settings>Advanced Settings>Drawing Mode = Basic
« Last Edit: January 01, 2016, 07:20:54 pm by Pictus »
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