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Author Topic: Z3200 Paper Presets Files  (Read 1971 times)

cybis

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Z3200 Paper Presets Files
« on: December 10, 2015, 01:34:21 pm »

I recently replaced my 9900 for a Z3200ps and with that comes a whole new learning curve.

I’m curious about the paper presets oms files. I understand the oms files contain a icc profile + paper settings. Some paper settings like Starwheels or Global Ink Limit can be edited by the user. I’m wondering if the oms files also contain paper or ink settings that are not directly accessible to the user, like ink partitioning, etc. 

If so, is there a tool that HP presumably make available to third party paper manufacturers to create these presets?
It seems third party created presets are different from user created presets.
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: Z3200 Paper Presets Files
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2015, 02:05:14 am »

I don't think so. I would think they make a profle like you could. The one built in I think does a smaller batch of color keys, but its reported that it is good for most things. if you want to dail down something very specific and want to experiment, get a i1 spectro with the nearly 2K swatches and stock up on water and food for a few months.  If you look here or on web you can learn much more about the ink system from many well experienced users. Mark Lindquist has a nice write up on his website as well.

I wish I had the ps vs the non ps.

Someone offered to swap the drive and make mine a ps for $500. I would have done it if I knew for sure all would be smooth.
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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: Z3200 Paper Presets Files
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2015, 03:00:36 pm »

Phil is right, mostly.  Perhaps Ernst Dinkla will pop around and he can tell you that the canned profiles are made in house at HP or their contractors and use more sophisticated means than what are available via the embedded spectrophotometer.  HP sold a puck and an advanced system that did do more that the normal EPS, but I'm pretty sure that won't work on the Z3200ps.  So the advantages of that advanced system are that you can make profiles for other printers.  Plus there is a somewhat deeper or better profile possible, at least that is what "they" say.

All in all, there's not much difference, apparently between an advanced profile on the Z3100 using their puck and just a plain profile made in-machine on the Z3200ps.

I expect Ernst to correct me, however.  He knows just about all there is to know on this subject, and is an exceptional resource.

He prefers to discuss these issues here, in the forum, so probably best not to PM him, unless if only to alert him to a question you would like him to respond to here. 

Glad you did PM me, however to make me aware of the broken link on my site.

BTW - welcome to the wonderful world of the Z Series printers.  When they're good they're really really good.  When they are bad, well, you know...

-Mark
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cybis

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Re: Z3200 Paper Presets Files
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2015, 01:39:47 am »

Thanks for the welcome guys! My question is mostly related to getting grayscale under control. Over the years I’ve found that grayscale color toning is the issue that preoccupies me more than any other printing issue. I find that I can tolerate quite a bit of color management vagaries for color image, I can live with a bit of lightness non-linearity, but ideally I want to be able to precisely control color toning along the complete range of tones.

While the baseline Z3200 grays are very neutral and well behaved (way better than a baseline Epson), they are not perfect and one could always wish to fine tune the color toning of grays (while the L* linearization can be achieved with QTR create tool for instance). The driver’s grayscale ‘advanced color adjustment’ tool is useless for this purpose as it behaves really weirdly. I’ve just started experimenting using a color workflow to tone BW but I think I’m seeing 8-bit quantization issues that result in abrupt steps and potential banding issue. Working with 16-bit image seems to improve things a bit, but I haven’t had time to make sense of it yet. 

Ideally one would want QTR-like control over ink partitioning but that’s not possible on the HPs. So I was curious if those .oms files might hold the answer.

The reason I’m suspecting the existence of a tool that gives access to paper presets settings not ordinarily accessible to users is a trivial one. User created presets are stored in a ‘Custom’ folder while third party paper manufacturer presets are stored in an ‘Additional’ folder. I don’t think it’s possible for users to store their presets in a folder other than ‘Custom’ using the regular HP Utility, is it? If it’s not possible it then points to the existence of another utility. And if there is another utility, I wonder what other non-trivial things it can do. It’s probably a moot point as even if it did exist it doesn’t seem to be available to us.
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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: Z3200 Paper Presets Files
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2015, 07:20:07 am »

The custom folder and additional folders are not interchangeable, however, if you made a profile and saved it, i.e. exported it for future use, you can reload the .oms file which will go only into the additional folder.  As Phil pointed out, you can make a custom profile not using the EPS, and load it, in which case it would go into the additional folder.

Just out of curiosity, have you tried the printer print management with B+W?  No doubt it would not be appropriate for the level of what you're doing, yet some have had excellent results using this approach with the Z's.

BTW, it's always a good idea to frequently do a nozzle check to make sure the printheads are fully firing.
Printing the diagnostic image and studying the chart can be very helpful.
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cybis

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Re: Z3200 Paper Presets Files
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2015, 11:21:46 am »

The custom folder and additional folders are not interchangeable, however, if you made a profile and saved it, i.e. exported it for future use, you can reload the .oms file which will go only into the additional folder.  As Phil pointed out, you can make a custom profile not using the EPS, and load it, in which case it would go into the additional folder.
Ah, I see. Well, there goes another one of my theories...   :D

Quote
Just out of curiosity, have you tried the printer print management with B+W?  No doubt it would not be appropriate for the level of what you're doing, yet some have had excellent results using this approach with the Z's.
Yes, using 'print in grayscale' gives excellent results as long as you leave 'Advance color adjustments' 'Gray Balance' settings alone. The results are also exactly identical to the 'print in color' if printing a grayscale image. What I'm lacking so far is a way to smoothly fine tune color toning away from the excellent baseline without causing banding and artifacts in smooth gradients.

Quote
BTW, it's always a good idea to frequently do a nozzle check to make sure the printheads are fully firing.
Printing the diagnostic image and studying the chart can be very helpful.
Regarding that, how good is the 'more passes' option at overcoming missing nozzles? If I even understand that option correctly that is... Does it detect missing nozzles somehow?
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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: Z3200 Paper Presets Files
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2015, 02:21:28 pm »

Regarding that, how good is the 'more passes' option at overcoming missing nozzles? If I even understand that option correctly that is... Does it detect missing nozzles somehow?

I'm not exactly sure Luc, so can't say much about that.  I can say that as a rule, I print with "more passes" as standard operating procedure.

Here is what HP has to say about it:

If the printer has nozzle defects, you can still get perfect print quality results. The printer can automatically compensate for nozzle defects, so there is no need to replace the Printhead.
The method of improving Nozzle Defects is to:
1 Recover the Printheads, using the Front Panel Main Menu/Image Quality Maintenance/Clean Printheads option.
2 Reprint the Printhead Nozzles Test Plot to verify that the defective nozzles have been corrected.
3 If the problem continues, replace the defective Printhead.


You might take a look at this page on my website:

Z3200 Printhead Info

Notice that HP says not to replace the printheads.  Then they to replace the printheads.  It's pretty much like that.  Don't, but then do.

Consider that each printhead manages 2 colors (or inks) and they cost less than the ink cartridges themselves.  It is possible to clean them, yet given the fact that they are less expensive than the inks, when I see any issues cropping up, I try a quick fix, then if that doesn't work, I simply replace them.  That's one of the great things about the Z3200ps - inexpensive replaceable print heads.  Two for the price of one.

So anyway, I recommend reading that page, then doing a diagnostic image and checking to see that all the the printheads are doing well, and gain control over this process.  In this regard, I believe this to be one of the most important aspects of maintaining quality of output.

Also, read the manual for discussions about banding.  You might try "Advance Paper Calibration" (from the front panel).  Sometimes this will fix certain banding issues.  Between clogged nozzles and incorrect paper thickness issues, most of the banding should be able to be controlled, particularly if your files are processed correctly, which I expect they are given your discussion about tonality, dynamic range, etc.

Again, I just use "more passes, best quality" as a rule.

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namartinnz

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Re: Z3200 Paper Presets Files
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2015, 04:54:36 pm »

I found that "Best" is my usual print setting but if I find some small banding, usually in the blacks -likely Matte Black, I'll bump up the setting to 'more passes and maximum detail'. If that doesn't work along with head cleaning it's time to get a new print head.

Neal

William Chitham

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Re: Z3200 Paper Presets Files
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2015, 01:09:01 pm »

Plus one on "more passes", I have found it effective at dealing with micro banding from blocked nozzles. When I started using my first z3100 a few years back I too had a burning desire to get into the oms files. In my case it was some of the apparently arbitrary restrictions like not being allowed to print borderless on matte papers that I wanted to tinker with, also some irritations like "trim the leading edge" when loading gloss media. As far as I can recall I got as far as a developer's resource somewhere in the Spanish division of HP but I don't think the tools were publicly accessable.

William.
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mark@lindquiststudios.com

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Re: Z3200 Paper Presets Files
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2015, 02:26:17 pm »

Whenever possible, I use Best, and More Passes.  Sometimes you can only use More Passes.

I'm not surprised that there is a developer's resource, and also not surprised it's in Spanish.  I agree, William, about the issues you discussed.  The Z3200ps did fix the trim paper issue, but still no printing borderless on Matte.

Mark
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