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Author Topic: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1  (Read 2101 times)

StuartOnline

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Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« on: December 01, 2015, 03:43:10 pm »

Yesterday I updated from C1 Version 8 to 9. Each time I click on All Images I end of with the spinning ball and then have to Force Quit to get out it. Had the same issue with C1 Version 8. Currently there are about 11,800 images in the catalog that is stored on an external Thunderbolt hard drive. Computer is an Apple Macbook Pro Retina (June 2012) 2.6 GHz Intel Core i7,16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3, NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 1024 MB.  Should add that I am looking to switch from Lightroom to C1 permanently soon, however I need to resolve this issue. Lightroom has nearly 100,000 images in the catalog and I don't have this issue when viewing all images.

Does anyone else every run into this issue when clicking on All Images?

Stu
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jonride

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2015, 05:09:22 pm »

Yes, same problem on C1 pro 9 and 2008 Mac Pro (8GB) with internal HD  - and a catalogue of 15K images.  Doesn't always happen but very frustrationg wthen it does. Can't pin down where the problem lies.  Thought it was a few layered tiffs, but have removed those and still a problem.  I'm also hoping to shift from LR, but the catalogue performance is the one thing holding me back.

Jon
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2015, 05:15:36 pm »

Yes, same problem on C1 pro 9 and 2008 Mac Pro (8GB) with internal HD  - and a catalogue of 15K images.  Doesn't always happen but very frustrationg wthen it does. Can't pin down where the problem lies.  Thought it was a few layered tiffs, but have removed those and still a problem.  I'm also hoping to shift from LR, but the catalogue performance is the one thing holding me back.

Jon

8gb of ram?

If so that's the first thing I'd look at. You want more ram than that when working with large catalogs.

StuartOnline

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2015, 07:47:39 pm »

Yes, same problem on C1 pro 9 and 2008 Mac Pro (8GB) with internal HD  - and a catalogue of 15K images.  Doesn't always happen but very frustrationg wthen it does. Can't pin down where the problem lies.  Thought it was a few layered tiffs, but have removed those and still a problem.  I'm also hoping to shift from LR, but the catalogue performance is the one thing holding me back.

Jon

Jon,

I had contacted C1 Support yesterday and received the following message posted below.

However I had already fixed the issued by going to one of my Backup Catalogs and starting over with Version 9.
As he stated in the reply, it did take a while for all the images to upgrade to Version 9.
I may have jumped to fast the first time I upgraded.
But now all seems to be working ok.

Stu

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Previous Catalogs and Sessions from Capture One Pro 8 may be imported into a master Catalog in Capture One Pro 9. Upgrading variants using the new Capture One Pro 9 processing engine is optional but doing so provides improved image quality and access to the latest tools. However, once updated, the settings cannot be reversed.

Catalogs or Sessions produced by Capture One 8 and opened from within Capture One Pro 9 must be updated to benefit from the new applications new features. A warning dialog will be displayed with the option to Upgrade and Open, or Cancel.  While the upgrade is irreversible, settings and adjustments are preserved. Individual variants may still be processed using the existing Capture One 8 tools and processing engine. Also, to benefit from the new tools and image quality enhancements, the variants will require upgrading for compatibility with the latest processing engine.
Catalogs cannot be exported in previous versions of Capture One.

Did you get the dialogue saying that you need to upgrade the catalog? If yes, did that ever finish? It may just take a long time to upgrade the catalog of that size.

Kind regards,

Phase One Technical Support
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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jonride

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2015, 04:41:03 am »

Yes 8Gb Ram - and that probably is the problem.  Activity Monitor reports C1 using 6GB of that while showing a grid of all images, whereas LR uses less than 1Gb for the same task.  Might need a new computer if I continue with C1!
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2015, 07:34:40 am »

Yes 8Gb Ram - and that probably is the problem.  Activity Monitor reports C1 using 6GB of that while showing a grid of all images, whereas LR uses less than 1Gb for the same task.  Might need a new computer if I continue with C1!

That indeed may be the bottleneck, as is limited GPU memory.

Image processing (e.g. Photoshop) and smoothness of workflow in general also benefits from more Ram. so you could consider replacing/adding Ram (it's often best to replace all memory modules with the same type, but larger and/or more), if possible and if the hardware justifies it. More modern computers usually also have faster processors (CPU), and more GPU processing power and memory, so that may be a better upgrade path, although more expensive initially.

Cheers,
Bart

P.S. For those on Windows, maybe there is a little bit of last life that can be squeezed out of a memory limited system by using a utility like CleverCache. However, if the initial loading of the C1 resources already consumes much of the available memory, then there is probably little to be cached and make additional room for actually working with. I've had success with CleverCache  for an application that consumed huge amounts of Ram, and I could prevent it from using the Harddisk as virtual memory as much as possible. Ram is much faster than disks (until it starts swapping), especially non-SSD drives.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 08:01:03 am by BartvanderWolf »
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Doug Peterson

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2015, 08:56:23 am »

Yes 8Gb Ram - and that probably is the problem.  Activity Monitor reports C1 using 6GB of that while showing a grid of all images, whereas LR uses less than 1Gb for the same task.  Might need a new computer if I continue with C1!

Exactly. C1 is a pro app and they assume you have a certain level of hardware. LR tries to serve a much broader market.

You don't need a new computer. At work my computer is the same gen as yours. You just need more ram which will cost you shockingly little for this gen of Mac Pro. Getting up to 16gb will be cheap!

A new fully loaded Mac Pro would obviously improve performance considerably as well, at a much higher price.

jonride

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2015, 04:13:00 pm »

Exactly. C1 is a pro app and they assume you have a certain level of hardware. LR tries to serve a much broader market.

You don't need a new computer. At work my computer is the same gen as yours. You just need more ram which will cost you shockingly little for this gen of Mac Pro. Getting up to 16gb will be cheap!

A new fully loaded Mac Pro would obviously improve performance considerably as well, at a much higher price.

Thanks for the advice everybody.  When I checked the system info on my Mac it was reporting only 2GB instead of the installed 8GB.  So there's clearly a problem with the RAM or riser boards.  Hopefully when it's fixed, C1 will be working properly!

Jon
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Jimmy D Uptain

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2015, 03:47:44 pm »

Yes, same problem on C1 pro 9 and 2008 Mac Pro (8GB) with internal HD  - and a catalogue of 15K images.  Doesn't always happen but very frustrationg wthen it does. Can't pin down where the problem lies.  Thought it was a few layered tiffs, but have removed those and still a problem.  I'm also hoping to shift from LR, but the catalogue performance is the one thing holding me back.

Jon

Try this:
Go to the Library tab and remove the "filters" tool.
I have 24GB ram and the catalog becomes unresponsive when this tool is in place. I don't know why, but this has been the case at least since version 8.
Mac Pro 2012 6core
SSD Main Drive
Photos on another internal SSD. Both drives mounted on the same PCI Express card.
This garbage about user's systems not being "professional enough" is getting really old.
Their catalog system is the problem.
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Bob Rockefeller

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2015, 06:30:01 pm »

CO 9 sure likes memory. Mine is using 7.9 GB right now while LR is using 2.2GB.

16GB sure sounds like a minimum. especially if you'll run anything much else with it. If you run Photoshop at the same time, you're going to need/want much, much more.
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Bob Rockefeller
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ppmax2

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2015, 08:09:29 pm »

For what it's worth I'm on a pretty buffed out recent iMac:
iMac (27-inch, Late 2013)
3.5 GHz Intel Core i7, 24GB 1600 MHz DDR3 RAM (Hyperthreading)
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780M 4GB VRAM

...and am a little surprised at how slow C1 is vs. Aperture (which flies on this machine with +20K images in the Aperture Library). I realize C1's image processing pipeline is likely more sophisticated, but it's pretty slow in comparison. I've got C1's preferences for OpenCL set to Auto and Auto and have tried Never and Never...but it doesn't seem to make much difference; all the processor cores get pegged whenever making an adjustment.

Watching videos of folks using C1 on Mac laptops on Youtube...it appears to perform reasonably well. Any performance tips from those in the know?


thx
PP
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Bob Rockefeller

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2015, 09:02:57 am »

That sounds like plenty of hardware, or at least I hope so.

Do you run Lightroom? How does it feel in speed vs. CO?

What size RAW files are you working with? Anything especially huge?
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Bob Rockefeller
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ppmax2

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2015, 04:04:30 pm »

Hello Bob--

Quote
That sounds like plenty of hardware, or at least I hope so.

Do you run Lightroom? How does it feel in speed vs. CO?

What size RAW files are you working with? Anything especially huge?


It's funny, I see your posts about C1 and Aperture here, there, all around...it seems we are experiencing the same things and asking similar questions. Right now my PP software is a smorgasbog of Aperture, C1, Iridient, Affinity Photo, Canon's DPP, and Photoshop.

I've decided LR just isn't for me...it's a jack of all trades but master of none. It's also substantially slower than Aperture...but faster than C1. On that note I can only speculate that C1's image processing pipeline is more sophisticated and thus slower...but as I mentioned my 27" iMac is no slouch.

The files are just nominal 5D3 and 7D2 files. I haven't PP'd any of my 7D1 pics with C1 yet...I'm still using Aperture for DAM (they can pry it from my cold dead hands) and for processing images that don't need much work. I also find it's print interface easy and well behaved.

Have you found a way to invoke the Loop tool in C1 from within the Print dialog?

Fun times!

PP



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Bob Rockefeller

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #13 on: December 05, 2015, 04:19:39 pm »

It's funny, I see your posts about C1 and Aperture here, there, all around...it seems we are experiencing the same things and asking similar questions. Right now my PP software is a smorgasbog of Aperture, C1, Iridient, Affinity Photo, Canon's DPP, and Photoshop.

<snip>

Have you found a way to invoke the Loop tool in C1 from within the Print dialog?


Yep, that's me - loved Aperture, dislike Lightroom, can't get Capture One to be the one.

To me, for DAM, the balance is AP > LR > CO.
For RAW conversions, CO > LR > AP

So I end up using LR while looking for something overall better. No luck so far. :(

And no, I can't get the Loop to to work in the Print dialog.
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Bob Rockefeller
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ppmax2

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Re: Clicking On All Images Crashes C1
« Reply #14 on: December 05, 2015, 09:15:25 pm »

Quote
To me, for DAM, the balance is AP > LR > CO.
For RAW conversions, CO > LR > AP

If you haven't already you should give Iridient a whirl because you may be able to have the best of both worlds. It has the best integration with Aperture I've seen. As you probably know you can assign an External Photo editor...nothing new there. However, when you use Iridient in this way it can "throw away" the tif that Aperture produces, and instead open the RAW file directly...and then return a finished tiff back to Aperture. You can also save the processing recipe in the same dir as your RAW, so if you ever edit the image again you have the Iridient process recipe right there to pick up where you left off.

Using your statement of equivalence  (or relative superiority) for RAW developers I would probably give Iridient the edge because it has so much more to offer for noise reduction and sharpening. You do end up having to manage a big tiff file in your Aperture library though. On the other hand, you can use all of Aperture's adjustment tools on the tiff so you can brush in your local adjustments as you are probably used to.

Good luck in your quest--
PP
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