Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 26   Go Down

Author Topic: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape  (Read 169486 times)

Christopher Sanderson

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2750
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #160 on: November 24, 2015, 05:01:54 pm »

Try to keep this thread civil. There is little reason for members to be abusive.

Michael, Kevin & I are reading all the advice and suggestions here very carefully and will respond accordingly.

Chris S
Logged

jeremyrh

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2514
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #161 on: November 24, 2015, 05:03:54 pm »

However, I do have ethical problems with someone hiding previous forum posts behind a paywall, as I did when Rob Galbraith sold his forum. Whatever its merit (and some has a lot), you got that content for free, and now you want to charge for access to it?

This. John - I enjoy your posts and find them very informative. I don't like to think of someone selling the content you have given for free.
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18208
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #162 on: November 24, 2015, 05:04:19 pm »

... Not  Kevin or Michael but us as contributors (not me of course…) are making it worthwhile visiting this forum site...

Not Kevin or Michael!? The forum would not have existed without the content created by the site owners in the first place.

Guillermo Luijk

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2013
    • http://www.guillermoluijk.com
Good for the price, not so good for the forum
« Reply #163 on: November 24, 2015, 05:10:52 pm »

I find the $12 price a completely right decission. No one guarantees it will work, but a higher price would almost certainly not work. Those eBook sellers setting prices close to the paper version don't grasp the concept that you cannot charge $10 or more for a bunch of bits. Anyone interested in the high quality articles periodically published in the site should find those $12/year a ridiculous cost vs the benefits obtained.

I consider including the forum in the fee a wrong decission though. I know a forum requires quite a lot of work (I run one), and that means effort and time, but you must not forget that the forum contents are produced by us, the forum participants, not by the forum owners. I don't mean it must remain free, but to be fair to everyone a more refined formula is needed IMHO.

Regards
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 05:15:57 pm by Guillermo Luijk »
Logged

AlterEgo

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1995
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #164 on: November 24, 2015, 05:12:22 pm »

Not Kevin or Michael!? The forum would not have existed without the content created by the site owners in the first place.
sure, we shall get back and credit the people who created internet in the first place too... and their parents and grandparents and then propably the rock that cleared dinos too
Logged

amolitor

  • Guest
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #165 on: November 24, 2015, 05:12:52 pm »

To be blunt, there's a certain number of mild stretchers in the pitch on the front page. LuLa is in the top 10 photo web sites, but there are at least 4 more popular ones out there. They get 330,000 unique visitors a month on 1.8M pageviews. Costs of servers and bandwidth are negligible when stacked up next to the need to put bread on the table for three men.

LuLa is a very respectable popular web site in a relatively niche space. With respect, I think they're overstaffed, although I am certainly not calling for anyone's head, I'm just looking at the realities of meeting payroll for three men on the numbers the web site generates.

Ad revenues are in free fall out there in a wild, and the photographic industry is, as a whole, shrinking down from a bubble, which is surely producing a double-whammy on LuLa's ad revenue. Revenues are trending down, and payroll rose by 50% when Kevin joined. These curves are going the wrong way.

What are you gonna do? I don't know what the staff here looked at, but what *I* would have considered was:

- an email blast-based set of surveys and questions to investigate some possibilities
- A patreon or kickstarter based system
- a membership model for various subsets of content, up to and including the whole web site
- consideration of branching out into other businesses
      - sell T-shirts and other merch
      - sell more workshops
      - sell workshop support services (so you want to run a workshop, let us help you)
      - a market research operation serving the still and motion camera industry, leveraging the user base
      - print sales, either lift the entire model from ToP or invent something new (art by subscription?)

They have a huge user base with a disproportionately high number of affluent dudes in it, and the only thing they can come up with is
put up a lowball $12/year paywall?

As I say, I have no idea what the thought process was, and I am loathe to say it was flawed, but I will say that the result doesn't strike me as particularly top-drawer. As always, I could easily be missing something.
Logged

Rusty

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 176
    • http://www.woodsgift.ca/
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #166 on: November 24, 2015, 05:26:27 pm »

Lots of discussion re whether or not the forum s/b behind the "paywall". It should because it takes time and effort to monitor it. I have benefited from the excellent advise SHARED here and trust that will continue. Will the paywall exclude many knowledgeable folks willing to share experience and knowledge? We shall see.
Just continuing to have access to what is already here is worth the price of admission, IMO

Al DaValle

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 13
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #167 on: November 24, 2015, 05:31:01 pm »

I think the new model makes a lot of sense.  I know I owe a great deal to LULA without whom I would have had a much tougher time learning the more technical side of the craft.  It has also helped me deepen my aesthetic skills and appreciation for the art form.

I also like the idea returning to an ad free model.  I appreciate the idea of a site that can be truly free of any direct conflict of interest when it comes to equipment reviews and evaluations.

I am a very long time reader, visitor, supporter and subscriber to LULA.  However, I very seldom participate in the forum so my name and voice will be new to the vast majority of you .  Nevertheless, I wanted to add my two cents into the discussion.

I'm in 100%...in fact I would likely be in at 3x the price.

Warm regards,
Al
Logged

kirktuck

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 92
    • http://www.kirktuck.com
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #168 on: November 24, 2015, 05:45:52 pm »

I am one hundred percent behind MR and KR in this move. The money we're talking about is a rounding error for most readers here and, with readers having a tiny bit of skin in the game, perhaps the forums will remain as cordial and civilized as always. Count on my subscription from the outset. To the "please pay me for having posted in the forum" group.... uh, no. If you feel your content is that valuable you might consider starting your own blog.
Logged

dseelig

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 600
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #169 on: November 24, 2015, 06:00:17 pm »

Quite frankly for those of us who have been using the forums the forums should stay free. WE have contributed to them and made the content new people sure charge them but we who created them should be able to stay free. I have not been happy with the articles and I associate this with a lot less from Michael. Sorry to say Kevin and though i respect his work Alain do not do much for me and Sean Reid writes teasers to get you pay for his site. Using the forums to get people to pay for them that have there own writings on them is just wrong. Remember the mess over the Rob Galbraith sites.
Logged

MHMG

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1292
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #170 on: November 24, 2015, 06:02:14 pm »

... Will the paywall exclude many knowledgeable folks willing to share experience and knowledge? We shall see.
Just continuing to have access to what is already here is worth the price of admission, IMO

Well, I have to respectfully bow out of the new LuLa subscriber plan at least for now.  As a "Senior" member in the forums I hope I've contributed my fair share to the LuLa community. It's definitely not the money.  A $12 annual fee is not really much different to $0 for many Lula visitors. 

I truly understand the need to monetize Lula with a realistic approach that doesn't succumb to the ever growing presence of more and more online sites coming into existence to chase a finite amount of available add revenue via click charge payment remunerations.   Rather, it's the fact that my usual "go to" forum thread, the printers, papers, and inks" forum topic, is already experiencing a significant decline in LuLa community involvement. This particular forum has been the prime value for me on LuLa. I can get gear reviews and meaningful new gear insight on many sites for free. I don't need LuLa for that. Yet LuLa's "printers, paper, and inks" forum has been a safe haven of rational discourse in a sea of confusion on the topic in almost all other forum threads I've visited. However, I sense that this forum is already waning, IMHO, over the last couple of years. I don't know nor can I fully calculate the dynamic which is taking place, but to put it behind a firewall is almost certain to reduce its value even further.

I truly wish LuLa the best in its new contract with its readers/subscribers.

best,
Mark
http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com
« Last Edit: November 24, 2015, 08:00:29 pm by MHMG »
Logged

digitaldog

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 21648
  • Andrew Rodney
    • http://www.digitaldog.net/
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #171 on: November 24, 2015, 06:09:03 pm »

Remember the mess over the Rob Galbraith sites.
I do. But a lot of the reason it sank had to do with other factors besides asking for money. The rate of censorship on that site was over the top. The people who took over were clueless. Neither is the case here. I'm not saying it couldn’t happen. But Galbraith had as much to do with that site going down the toilet as asking for forum members to pay.
Logged
http://www.digitaldog.net/
Author "Color Management for Photographers".

marc aurel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 150
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #172 on: November 24, 2015, 06:15:17 pm »

After reading 9 pages of comments: it looks as if most criticism is about the plan to put the forums behind the paywall too. I agree. I'm one of those who rarely watch a video or read an article. I'm here for the forums. I have written few posts, but in some of them I have invested a lot of work. I wanted to share my experience and discuss it with others. I was glad to do that because I knew this is a free site for everybody, that was part of my motivation. I wouldn't have done it for a subscription site. Now the former contributions of a lot of people will disappear behind a paywall.

A lot of people have made the proposition to restrict the paywall to the articles and leave the forums free.

Michael and Kevin - could you please comment on this: wouldn't that be a possibility? Why not?
Logged

Slobodan Blagojevic

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 18208
  • When everyone thinks the same, nobody thinks
    • My website
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #173 on: November 24, 2015, 06:22:06 pm »

...I'm one of those who rarely watch a video or read an article. I'm here for the forums...

And if that is true for most of those who oppose paying and want a free forum, then how is the site going to finance it?

Martin Ocando

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
    • Martin Ocando
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #174 on: November 24, 2015, 06:23:58 pm »

Maybe it was mentioned before, but after 9 pages, I don't feel like reading every post.

I usually link articles and youtube videos from LuLa. Michael has been my ETTR flag since his first article, long time ago. I would suggest making a 15 or 30 day trial for articles, maybe not so for videos, so if someone links an article, anyone can see it right away, not having to pay for a full yearly subscription. If the reader likes the site, and decides to pay for a subscription, then much better.
Logged
Martin Ocando
SONY A7R IV, 20-70mm f/4 G, 70-200mm f/4 G OSS II, CZ 35mm f/2.8, TTArtisan 75mm f/2

Abadschieff.com

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
    • LAND OCEAN IMAGES - JAN ABADSCHIEFF
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #175 on: November 24, 2015, 06:34:52 pm »

This is the right move !!  :D 
 I expect this enables you guys to improve quality even more...
All the best!!  :)
Logged

kers

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4602
    • Pieter Kers
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #176 on: November 24, 2015, 06:37:56 pm »

And if that is true for most of those who oppose paying and want a free forum, then how is the site going to finance it?
I just pay to contribute, but if the forum is not open i am afraid it will dry up.
We need constantly new ideas, new forum input and new blood - no threshold should be put in place to prevent that from happening.
As i said before ; I rather pay for Lula with an open forum than without one.
Logged

Kevin Raber

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1339
  • Kevin Raber
    • Kevin Raber
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #177 on: November 24, 2015, 06:39:36 pm »

Thank you for you comments.  Michael, Chris and I have been following the topic all day.  We have heard you and we will keep the forum as a FREE portion of the Luminous-Landscape site.  The rest of the site will be part of the membership site.  The exception is the For Sale topic.  If you wish to post there you will need to be a member.  Thanks for the feedback.
Logged
Kevin Raber
[email protected]
[email protected]
rockhopperworkshops.com
photopxl.com

siddhaarta

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 130
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #178 on: November 24, 2015, 06:44:38 pm »

I remember clearly, as it was yesterday, that some time ago Michael stated (was it a video or article?) that this site will NEVER be a subscription site. Oh boy, times change quickly …

As others, I think the quality of the articles has declined somewhat in the last years. For me it was a very important source, but not so much anymore, although I still like to step by…. I miss the insight articles from Michael which are much less in number recently ...

Now, I am more interested in the forums from which I learned a lot. They should be and stay free.

I also agree with others that this may not be a sustainable model, lack of fresh blood and diversity will be the consequence.

Anyway, I wish you the best
Logged

tnargs

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 94
  • Just testing, very testing
Re: A New Change For Luminous-Landscape
« Reply #179 on: November 24, 2015, 06:52:08 pm »

And if that is true for most of those who oppose paying and want a free forum, then how is the site going to finance it?
So you agree that most of those who would be paying, would be paying to talk? And you say that without such payment, it is unsustainable? You are overly defensive and argumentative about valid points being made.
Thank you for you comments.  Michael, Chris and I have been following the topic all day.  We have heard you and we will keep the forum as a FREE portion of the Luminous-Landscape site.  The rest of the site will be part of the membership site.  The exception is the For Sale topic.  If you wish to post there you will need to be a member.  Thanks for the feedback.

Thank you Kevin. Mine and many other comments on this have been seen as the voice of reason. Slobodan to note.
Logged
“Symbolism exists to adorn and enrich, n
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10 11 ... 26   Go Up