A New Change For Luminous-Landscape

[jeremyrh]

What do you think? Not terribly useful posting an ambitious post about something that's not very ambitious. So, have I pissed you off in the past? Probably...if not then, maybe now? Care to explain just a bit more specific?

I think, as AlterEgo has said it is somewhat in the eye of the beholder. I think the tone of your postings is aggressive, abusive and bullying. However, the impression I get from seeing you on videos is that you are actually quite a nice guy, a bit of a cuddly uncle figure. So I put the image you project in writing down to poor written communication problems rather than a personality issue.

[Manoli]

What do you think?

What do I think ?
I think a lot of it is a culture issue.

There's a 'big' thing on the US continent about appearing a 'tough' guy, possibly perpetuated from the image of the Wild West. In Europe, someone who, off the bat, comes over as overtly aggressive is generally considered 'stoopid' - in the first instance. It rarely changes after that.

If you think civility casts aspersions on your masculinity - you need to think again.

Edit:
This post not directed at Jeff. The 'you' is a generic one.

[Manoli]

Kev and I will be talking about this shortly...I'm due to go to Indy and shoot some print videos in Dec. I'm a big believer in pay content being paid for. It's the biz in me...

Kev sent me an email and I'll PM you the reply.

[graeme]

I have found the tone in the forums unpleasant. No it's not scary. I'm Unafraid of someone sitting on another continent cap locking me into submission, but it is tedious. No it's not a learning process or a method of teaching. It's a disagreement over stuff like Adobe subscription or some such. It's a dick swinging competition.

Sure there are people that are abrasive at times, but who have a tremendous amount of info and who seem to get annoyed with idiots. I don't have an issue with these people. I guess a good example of this is Mr Schewe. It's a pity he doesn't post more often and I hope when this site goes behind a paywall that he will be able to start writing articles.

For me it's simple. If you are a really talented photographer I will pay attention and listen to what you have to say. If you have useful information and new ways of doing things I will pay attention. If you have a problem I can help with I will try to help. If you think others are idiots because they don't agree with your point of view on something like what is the best sensor or who makes the best software or how dumb is subscription software then you are like a hooting car. Slightly irritating but of no real concern to me other than to avoid your immediate vicinity.

Well said Martin

[Otto Phocus]

So, the question you gotta ask yourself, are you willing to be a paying customer where you can influence the direction as a paying customer?

I am not sure I understand what you wrote.  Could you please explain how paying a subscription to LuLa would enable me to influence the direction of the website?

It was my understanding that the owners of this website would continue running it the way they choose to.

[stamper]

I am not sure I understand what you wrote.  Could you please explain how paying a subscription to LuLa would enable me to influence the direction of the website?

It was my understanding that the owners of this website would continue running it the way they choose to.

More money in the owner's pockets means that they can commission better articles?

[dreed]

...
I have a golden rule, I don't do anything for free. So, I've never done an article for LuLa because the fee has been zero. That might change in the future.
...

Ok, you're a good capitalist I'm the opposite - a very bad capitalist Sometimes I wish I could be more like you because it would be better for various parts of my life

Yeah, pretty much. Look, the Internet has changed..."free content" is usually worth what you pay for...I've seen a lot of free content and it pretty much sucks. There are a few (precious few) free content that is worthy like Julianne Kost at Adobe.com or Andrew Rodeny's free content. But if you want good content, it can't be free.

I wonder just how much of your computing world relies in different ways on free software that you never paid for, will never pay for and don't even understand is there because "it just works." What you do pay for is what you do see. And indeed, "free content" is what started the Internet, made it worthwhile and drew people to it. Don't underestimate the value of "free" or its importance even if you can't understand it or don't want to be a part of it.

So, the question you gotta ask yourself, are you willing to be a paying customer where you can influence the direction as a paying customer? Or are ya gonna sit on the sideline and kvetch (Piss&Moan).

Influence direction as a customer? You mean for $1/month we get voting rights on what content does and doesn't appear? I don't think *that* was written ... but if you mean to say "vote with your wallet", then that I can understand.

What, you pay a monthly bill for cable, internet, Uber, etc...but you don't want to pay for a subscription to information? You drop $'s for equipment but don't want to pay for education to use it?

When I pay for education, I expect an in person class because that's where I get value. To me there is little to no value in youtube videos, etc, because there is no scope for interacting with the teacher (questions, etc.) In this maybe I'm a 1%'er and don't represent the Internet at large - I can accept that.

[dreed]

There's one aspect of this that kind of makes me sad (as a human being) and that's the paywall that goes up to all of the historical content.

It's like taking a library in the neighborhood that was free to enter and now charging people a monthly fee to go inside. I think that's a sad outcome because it puts a barrier between people and knowledge that has been previously published openly.

Outside of commercial enterprises such as newspapers, the general trend has been in the reverse direction, e.g.
Scientific papers take a step outside Nature's paywall

But just as someone must pay the rates, staff wages and utility bills, so too must someone pay to keep data stored on computers, for the computers to run, the network cables and bits to flow over those cables for a website to operate. It's unfortunate that this website has become an expense that requires a membership fee now to read but what are the alternatives?

[Eric Myrvaagnes]

Well said Martin

I agree completely. Almost everything I have learned about digital photography has been from Michael and Jeff, plus a few other knowledgeable and generous people on the LuLa Forum.

To my mind, Jeff can sometimes be what might be called "brusque" but never "abusive."

And the term "greed" that has been thrown around quite a bit in this thread only fits those who continue to complain about being asked to pay less than 4 cents a day to support this excellent system of website and forum. And even the fact that the forum won't even cost the less-than-4-cents (except if you want to post in the For Sale section) still doesn't satisfy the greedy beggars.

I'll be happy to see those complainers go away.

And, by the way, I have a question for those who claim there are lots of excellent, free, photography forums that are more genteel than LuLa and at least as informative: Can you please name for me your top three "better" forums?

Eric M.

[image66]

Actually, we do get voting rights. We are able to influence the direction. Either you pay or you don't. Very simple.

I highly doubt that we'll see any improvement in content. It is what it is. I just took a gander at the content from this past year and there is about one significant article a month on average. Just the coverage of the Leica SL is an indication of just how irrelevant this site has become. The only information on this camera worth looking at is through a link to another PAY site.  The "portfolio reviews" are nice (The Feminine Landscape), but not unique, nor is it what I would call a curated feature.

The reality is this website is no longer aimed at anybody other than a small subset of rich people who spend money on cameras instead of (or in addition to) Italian sports cars. The "Is Good, Good Enough" paint-drying video is a perfect example. You have two guys rambling on about whether or not $10,000 in equipment is good enough for bragging rights.

I really do like you two guys, but seriously, pick up the pace a little and have an outline before you hit the record button.

Anyway, I wish you well. I may tap into the site occasionally to see when you change your mind and knock down the pay wall, but I am convinced that this move is only going to make you guys more insular.

And exclusive.

Maybe that's the point. You really don't want us hoi polloi with kits that don't meet your approval around.

Fair enough.

Ken

[Christopher Sanderson]

... I am convinced that this move is only going to make you guys more insular.
And exclusive.
Maybe that's the point. You really don't want us hoi polloi with kits that don't meet your approval around.
Fair enough.
Ken

Nope - that's your point but certainly is not ours!
'hoi polloi' are as welcome as any 

[Box Brownie]

I have read most of the thread and my thoughts are:-

I was not happy with the move the Purple streaming for the videos where in the past I had bought downloadables, so under the new pay model will all old videos and future ones be stream & downloadable?

Since that side was in effect closed to me I have mainly followed the forum and learned and hopefully contributed with my postings

Of the few articles that have caught my attention on the main site I have found them a mixed bag as the equipment reviews were of limited influence because of either the make/grade/type or cost!  In common with many my budget is modest and requires much thought before I buy new glass or indeed any new kit.

Having said that for $12 I would be content to give it a go..............and see what benefits there are and how the site progresses and adds to my photographic experience of the world?

Edit ~ I wonder if part of the increased pro contributor input would be articles (travelogues?) for Europe as being in the UK longhaul is an every few years luxury.

[Otto Phocus]

And, by the way, I have a question for those who claim there are lots of excellent, free, photography forums that are more genteel than LuLa and at least as informative: Can you please name for me your top three "better" forums?

Eric M.

Nikonians and Nikon Rumors are two websites where the forums are at a higher level of maturity and helpfulness.

[Christopher Sanderson]

I was not happy with the move the Purple streaming for the videos where in the past I had bought downloadables, so under the new pay model will all old videos and future ones be stream & downloadable?

We were also unhappy with Purple whom we dropped over a year ago. Since that time, videos have been available both as streaming and download and will continue to be so under the membership setup.

Chris

[Manoli]

To my mind, Jeff can sometimes be what might be called "brusque" but never "abusive."

To be fair, Jeff has had more than a smattering of morons to deal with over the years. I'll defend anyone's right to be more than 'just a bit short' with someone who persists in abject foolishness.

This sub-topic was more to do with those who employ aggression as a means of self-expression from the outset - at least that was my understanding.

I think Martin Kristiansen put it well in post #326.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

...You really don't want us hoi polloi with kits that don't meet your approval around...

I still shoot with a Canon 60D and have only recently acquired a full-frame camera (6D). My bestseller image was done with a P&S (Canon G10). Hoi polloi enough?

[digitaldog]

We will be launching the membership site on November 30th, 2015 sometime during the day.

Just a request that you folks let us know when this happens please. It appears going to the main page, not yet. I do intend to contribute at the earliest opportunity.

[Kevin Raber]

If all goes as planned the membership site will launch around 5:30 - 7 PM Eastern time US.

[AWeil]

How will you be able to avoid double registration for 'old' forum members? What if the name is the same but the e- mail address changed, new password is used and so on...

[Luigi Bozianu]

Quot capita tot sententiae, and I leaf through the blog of Ming Thein too, if anybody interested.