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Author Topic: Mantua, VI  (Read 1775 times)

Vieri Bottazzini

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Mantua, VI
« on: November 13, 2015, 05:01:18 pm »

Mantua is one of Italy's hidden treasures, one I love to shoot whenever I can: the classic views of the city, reflected in the lakes surrounding it, are considered to be classics for a reason.



With the Sigma SD1 Merrill and the Sigma 17-50mm f/2.8. Thanks for viewing! Best,

Vieri
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Vieri Bottazzini
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NancyP

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2015, 05:25:15 pm »

Gosh. I am impressed by the beauty of the Italian landscapes that you have shown.
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Chris Calohan

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2015, 05:58:56 pm »

Nice light.
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Bob_B

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2015, 06:35:38 pm »

Gosh. I am impressed by the beauty of the Italian landscapes that you have shown.

I'll second that! Nice work.
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sarrasani

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2015, 07:55:27 pm »

superb composition, natural colours (as one can expect from that sensor and your so good PP), good tonal range...
clap hands from me.
all the best,
sandro
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Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2015, 12:33:06 am »

Beautiful scene, beautifully presented.
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thierrylegros396

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2015, 02:45:31 am »

Beautiful scene, beautifully presented.

+1

Thierry
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DaveRichardson

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2015, 06:55:52 am »

Very nice - has a painted feel to it that I like.

Dave
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Vieri Bottazzini

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2015, 03:45:01 am »

Gosh. I am impressed by the beauty of the Italian landscapes that you have shown.

Thank you very much Nancy, I am glad you enjoyed my Italy in my photographs...  :D It's such a beautiful country, I am glad if I can give it justice at least a little bit  :)

Nice light.

Thank you very much Chris!

I'll second that! Nice work.

Thank you very much Bob!

superb composition, natural colours (as one can expect from that sensor and your so good PP), good tonal range...
clap hands from me.
all the best,
sandro

Thank you very much Sandro, I am glad you enjoyed it - the Foveon (now long gone) has a very particular interpretation of colours, a very endearing one if not perfectly neutral. I am enjoying the Pentax 645z I am using now really very much, is a great camera with great IQ, but at times I miss the Foveon rendering...  :)

Beautiful scene, beautifully presented.


Thank yo very much Eric, I am glad you enjoyed it! :)

+1

Thierry

Thank you very much Thierry! :)

Very nice - has a painted feel to it that I like.

Dave

Thank you very much Dave, I enjoy that too, very often I try to go for such an effect both on screen and in print with my images (not that I am always successful, much evidence to the contrary, in fact!  :D ), so I am glad if I could make it happen with this photograph. Thanks again! :)

Best,

Vieri
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Paulo Bizarro

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2015, 05:30:35 am »

Wonderful.

muntanela

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2015, 09:55:53 am »

Very fine photo, but... Mantua is lost in a corner on the background. It could as well be a shot of Lake Caccamo or, better, Trasimeno...
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 11:05:59 am by muntanela »
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NancyP

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #11 on: November 16, 2015, 12:11:34 pm »

Vieri, I think that good landscape photos show a love for that particular place, and inspire similar emotion in the viewer. You do this. As for the comment about "Mantua looks small in this composition", to me the photo is just as much about sky and water as the city.
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thierrylegros396

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2015, 06:57:55 am »

Vieri, I think that good landscape photos show a love for that particular place, and inspire similar emotion in the viewer. You do this. As for the comment about "Mantua looks small in this composition", to me the photo is just as much about sky and water as the city.
Very fine photo, but... Mantua is lost in a corner on the background. It could as well be a shot of Lake Caccamo or, better, Trasimeno...

Of course Mantua is small in the composition.

But the main forcelines converge towards Mantua.

Thierry
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Vieri Bottazzini

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2015, 05:45:34 pm »

Wonderful.

Thank you very much Paulo, glad you enjoyed it! :)

Very fine photo, but... Mantua is lost in a corner on the background. It could as well be a shot of Lake Caccamo or, better, Trasimeno...

...but it isn't, and it couldn't be, since there is no Mantua in Lake Caccamo or Trasimeno...  ;) Jokes aside, see below for my answer.

Vieri, I think that good landscape photos show a love for that particular place, and inspire similar emotion in the viewer. You do this. As for the comment about "Mantua looks small in this composition", to me the photo is just as much about sky and water as the city.


Of course Mantua is small in the composition.

But the main forcelines converge towards Mantua.

Thierry

Thank you very much Nancy & Thierry, you both beat me to it and explained perfectly the reasoning behind my composition (sorry about the late reply, btw, I hadn't had much time to write these days). Thierry pointed out exactly the composition rationale for it, while Nancy expressed perfectly my view of landscape photography: the subject matter is important inasmuch as it serves as a medium to transfer emotions from the photographer to the viewer. If I wanted to make an image just "descriptive" of Mantua's lakeside, it would have been very different; this photograph is "set" in Mantua, but the boat, sky and water are important to me as well as the city to convey the atmosphere of the place.

Best,

Vieri
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muntanela

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2015, 09:45:05 am »

the subject matter is important inasmuch as it serves as a medium to transfer emotions from the photographer to the viewer. If I wanted to make an image just "descriptive" of Mantua's lakeside, it would have been very different; this photograph is "set" in Mantua, but the boat, sky and water are important to me as well as the city to convey the atmosphere of the place.

I fear that this photo transfers above all the "emotions" of a short (too short) focal lens, with its inversion (in this case I would say perversion) of the ontological values. Who has seen Mantua from the lakes, knows that the presence of the town on the opposite shore isn’t like that of the tiny thing that you can see in this shot. The observer gazes at an overwhelming, miraculous fusion of nature and culture, nature and history. In your beautiful shot I find nothing (or very little) of the emotions I felt the first time Mantua appeared to my eyes. In it I find above all the cliché of wide angle photography of lakes and pools (I know well this cliché because I use it often).
Here a literary, but more authentic “description” of  what really happens when you see Mantua from the lakes. It is a cliché too, but a Mantua cliché.

“I'm driving across the Ponte Legnano towards Mantua: the long bridge slices through two mist-covered lakes that form a gigantic moat protecting this majestic city. Suddenly, at the edge of the water, the swirling haze is broken by a dramatic skyline of ancient towers, turrets, cupolas and domes. Italian friends tell me that Mantua is known as La Bella Addormentata, a sleeping beauty that hasn't changed since the middle ages.”

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2013/mar/29/mantua-italy-sleeping-beauty-city-break



« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 10:04:01 am by muntanela »
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brandtb

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2015, 11:22:11 am »

Quote
the subject matter is important inasmuch as it serves as a medium to transfer emotions from the photographer to the viewer
this is a speculative  and subjective endeavor no? As pointed out this image really isn't about the extraordinary city of Mantua, or view of Mantua. In "essence"...the essential elements in the frame are simply weeds on a generic shoreline, some floating wooden piers and old an boat...and the foreboding sky. The essential elements "tell the truth" generally - and I don't think at the end of the day they are terribly interesting...moody perhaps. Imposing personal "meaning(s)" into a frame seldom will overcome inherent fundamental problems that exist within the frame.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 03:10:39 pm by brandtb »
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Vieri Bottazzini

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #16 on: November 20, 2015, 02:33:35 pm »

I fear that this photo transfers above all the "emotions" of a short (too short) focal lens, with its inversion (in this case I would say perversion) of the ontological values. Who has seen Mantua from the lakes, knows that the presence of the town on the opposite shore isn’t like that of the tiny thing that you can see in this shot. The observer gazes at an overwhelming, miraculous fusion of nature and culture, nature and history. In your beautiful shot I find nothing (or very little) of the emotions I felt the first time Mantua appeared to my eyes. In it I find above all the cliché of wide angle photography of lakes and pools (I know well this cliché because I use it often).
Here a literary, but more authentic “description” of  what really happens when you see Mantua from the lakes. It is a cliché too, but a Mantua cliché.

“I'm driving across the Ponte Legnano towards Mantua: the long bridge slices through two mist-covered lakes that form a gigantic moat protecting this majestic city. Suddenly, at the edge of the water, the swirling haze is broken by a dramatic skyline of ancient towers, turrets, cupolas and domes. Italian friends tell me that Mantua is known as La Bella Addormentata, a sleeping beauty that hasn't changed since the middle ages.”

http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2013/mar/29/mantua-italy-sleeping-beauty-city-break

And I fear you are wrong. This image is number VI in a series of 6 images of Mantua, all taken from the other side of the lake; for this image, as I said, the setting of the city is as important as the city itself. The other 5 images are different, some taken with longer lenses, some with wide angle, and they all show different impressions of the city (my impressions, that is, of course).

That said, the fact that when you see "my" image you don't see any of "your" emotions, any of the emotions that "you" felt when you first saw Mantua, is perfectly fine; no problem here whatsoever, in fact is - perhaps - the way it should be, if you already have such a strong opinion of a subject matter and aren't evidently open to a different interpretation of such subject.

The lines in my image drive the viewer's eye from the shore to the city, passing through the boat and the piers, symbolising life on the lake,  thus establishing the relation between nature and the city that you mentioned. It does it in a way that doesn't conform to your vision, but it does it nevertheless.

Last, my images are made to be printed, and printed large; when seen printed A2 or A1, the city is very visible (though, of course, the relations between different elements in the image remains the same).

In the end, we all have different ideas and opinions about a subject matter that we know well. The trick is to be open to accept different visions.

Best,

Vieri
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Vieri Bottazzini
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Vieri Bottazzini

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Re: Mantua, VI
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2015, 02:39:37 pm »

this is a speculative  and subjective endeavor no? As pointed out this image really isn't about the extraordinary city of Mantua, or view of Mantua. In "essence"...the essential elements in the frame are simply weeds on a generic shoreline, some floating wooden piers and old an boat...and the foreboding sky. The essential elements "tell the truth" generally - and I don't think at the end of the day they are terribly interesting...moody perhaps. Imposing personal "meaning(s)" into a frame seldom will overcome inherent fundamental problems that exist within the frame.

Indeed it is, a personal endeavour. Listing the elements, you forget one: the city of Mantua, to which the force lines of the image clearly and definitely point to; either you do so in bad faith, to prove your point, or you aren't well versed in the art of reading images. The image is about "my" vision of the city and its relation with the nature surrounding it; the fact that other people might feel differently is perfectly fine, and I am looking forward to see different interpretation of the subject matter. However, this doesn't mean that there are "inherent" problems within the frame: inherent means "existing in someone or something as a permanent and inseparable element, quality, or attribute". Here we are just speaking of personal interpretation, and as such there aren't "inherent fundamental problems" with the image other than the fact that you didn't like it, I am afraid; just different views of the same subject matter, which is of course perfectly fine by me.

Best,

Vieri
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