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Author Topic: Is good good enough?  (Read 22476 times)

GrahamBy

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #100 on: November 11, 2015, 05:54:01 am »

But the truth is similar to whether you like your tea black or with milk or with sugar or without.

I think the point some of are trying to make is that if you claim not to like coffee because you've only tried it with 3 spoons of sugar, it may be that your decision was not based on reliable data... no matter how "obvious" it was to you that coffee is horribly sweet, compared to the tea that you normally drink unsweetened.
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Ray

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #101 on: November 11, 2015, 06:22:06 am »

I think the point some of are trying to make is that if you claim not to like coffee because you've only tried it with 3 spoons of sugar, it may be that your decision was not based on reliable data... no matter how "obvious" it was to you that coffee is horribly sweet, compared to the tea that you normally drink unsweetened.

Quite true! And, if you don't like chili sauce, that may because you applied too much of it, causing a burning sensation. And, if your TV or monitor is a cheap 6 or 8 bit type with inaccurate color rendition and poor contrast, don't blame the entire medium of electronic displays.  ;)
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Isaac

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #102 on: November 11, 2015, 10:36:18 am »

You should look into getting some  bias lighting.

Interesting, thanks.

It was easy enough to reposition a nearby lamp behind the TV, with the support of a cardboard box (painted black, of course).
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 04:53:59 pm by Isaac »
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stamper

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #103 on: November 12, 2015, 04:14:41 am »

These are false analogies. The question should be, 'Why stand up for hours in the dark with trays of bad-smelling chemicals, when you can sit in a pleasant environment in the daylight, and process images with far greater ease and greater flexibility than was ever possible in the darkroom?'

As for getting up early and being cold in order to shoot landscapes, that would only be necessary if one wanted to shoot a dawn scene in winter. Even then, if you have the option of sleeping in a heated room, and you have adequate, warm clothing, why should one feel cold, or why should one choose the more uncomfortable option of being cold when it's not necessary?

Ray, do you really process your images in daylight? A darkened room is what most photographers use.

Ray

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #104 on: November 12, 2015, 07:26:15 am »

Ray, do you really process your images in daylight? A darkened room is what most photographers use.

Yes, Stamper. I have a very vibrant and high-quality monitor, the 27" NEC PA272W. It boasts 99.3% of the Adobe RGB color gamut and uses 14 bit color processing. Resolution is 2560x1440.

When I click 'proof colors' in Photoshop (having selected my printer profile, and ticked 'simulate paper color' in 'Proof Setup/Custom') I find that my processed images now require very little further adjustment before sending them to the printer.

This was not the case with the lower quality monitors I'd used in the past. After selecting 'proof colors', the images would invariably dull quite significantly, requiring significant boosts to contrast and vibrancy, sometimes selectively to avoid out-of-gamut colors occurring.
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stamper

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #105 on: November 12, 2015, 07:52:25 am »

Yes, Stamper. I have a very vibrant and high-quality monitor, the 27" NEC PA272W. It boasts 99.3% of the Adobe RGB color gamut and uses 14 bit color processing. Resolution is 2560x1440.

When I click 'proof colors' in Photoshop (having selected my printer profile, and ticked 'simulate paper color' in 'Proof Setup/Custom') I find that my processed images now require very little further adjustment before sending them to the printer.

This was not the case with the lower quality monitors I'd used in the past. After selecting 'proof colors', the images would invariably dull quite significantly, requiring significant boosts to contrast and vibrancy, sometimes selectively to avoid out-of-gamut colors occurring.


Ray I wasn't talking about your monitor. You implied that you edited your images in a room that had daylight in it. Not a good idea, imo

Eric Myrvaagnes

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #106 on: November 12, 2015, 09:16:00 am »

Ray, do you really process your images in daylight? A darkened room is what most photographers use.
Stamper,

I distinctly remember processing prints outdoors, probably at least 60 years ago.

I took a negative, a sheet of cardboard, and a sheet of Printing-out Paper out into our backyard on a sunny day, with cardboard on top and negative in the middle. I set it down on a picnic table in bright sunlight and removed the cardboard for several minutes (I forget how long it took). And eventually there was an image on the P-O-Paper! No nasty chemicals at all. Unless, of course, you wanted your print to last for more than a day.   :D

Eric

P.S. Eventually I had a darkroom in my parents' basement, by covering up the windows. But it was always safer to do processing at night, when there was "free dark."

And now I still do most of my digital processing at night, for the "free dark."
« Last Edit: November 12, 2015, 09:19:08 am by Eric Myrvaagnes »
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-Eric Myrvaagnes (visit my website: http://myrvaagnes.com)

Ray

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #107 on: November 12, 2015, 10:07:06 am »

Ray I wasn't talking about your monitor. You implied that you edited your images in a room that had daylight in it. Not a good idea, imo

Why is it not a good idea? I enjoy sitting in daylight. I also sometimes process my images in artificial light. My purposes are fulfilled, and the prints I occasionally make match what I see on the monitor closely enough. Perhaps the AmbiBright ambient light sensor which automatically adjusts the display's brightness based on lighting conditions, has something to do with it.  ;)
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jjj

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #108 on: November 12, 2015, 06:53:46 pm »

Ray, do you really process your images in daylight? A darkened room is what most photographers use.
Never seen one do that. Those who know what they are doing in fact use a room with correct [day] lighting. Look at the link regarding bias lighting I posted above for how to make a more pleasant workspace for example and check out bulbs that are correctly balanced and have a good CRI - a full spectrum of light.
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jjj

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #109 on: November 12, 2015, 07:22:37 pm »

I thank everyone for their suggestions and the time taken to consider them. But the truth is similar to whether you like your tea black or with milk or with sugar or without. I don't want 3 spoonfuls of sugar in my tea because that is the way experience has taught me I respond. It's not a theory or some particular number but experience. It doesn't matter that other people like 3 spoonfuls or think I'm silly for prefering one (or none), that's just the way my body responds.
Poor analogy.
A bit like you tasted coffee at Starbucks and decided no coffee shops can make a nice coffee.
Maybe if you tried coffee from a shop that has fancy coffee beans eaten and then pooped out by a Civet cat [not made up that bit], you may change your mind. ;)

Most flat screen monitors I've seen people use are horrid and I wouldn't want to sit in front of them myself. However a good screen that is set up well and with the correct bias lighting is worlds apart. Screens that are glossy/relfective are also ghastly to use and hard on one's eyes.
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stamper

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Re: Is good good enough?
« Reply #110 on: November 13, 2015, 03:53:10 am »

Never seen one do that. Those who know what they are doing in fact use a room with correct [day] lighting. Look at the link regarding bias lighting I posted above for how to make a more pleasant workspace for example and check out bulbs that are correctly balanced and have a good CRI - a full spectrum of light.

Jeremy read this. A google search brought up a lot of similar articles about a darkened room. The only light in my room is the monitor.

http://www.tedsimages.com/text/calibrat.htm

and this.

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=79654.0

As usual no consensus of opinion but Jeff's post seems the best. What is the point of using balanced daylight bulbs when most of the time the viewing of an image on a wall will be with a light source other than daylight?
« Last Edit: November 13, 2015, 04:56:42 am by stamper »
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