QTR and 2x 3 different blacks.

[Erland]

Hey!
I'm about to convert my Epson 1400 to black and white inksets.
I have inkjets at my customers, that I can get free black pigment inks, and am willing to try it in 3 carts in my printer, using QTR and a 3MK method.

And I also want to buy 3 inks from farbenwerk, (K, LK and LLK) and use in the other 3 available carts. Using QTR, can I use whatever cart positions I want, and still get the same result? I am guessing so, just want to make sure before I do it.

Kind regards

[Jeff-Grant]

You may be better off asking on the Yahoo QTR forum.

[richardboutwell]

The 1400/1430/1500 printers is a good economical way of testing these kinds of things out.

Are you going to use color inks in the remaining three channels (for toning), or were you going to try to set up a dual tritone printer (three shades of different colored gray inks)? One advantage of the 7 ink printers is that would allow you to make dual quadtone profiles rather than being limited to dual tritone in the 6 ink printers.

If you are going to set it up for dual tritone you need to make sure the ink limits for each of the different sets are defined to produce the same density at the 100% patch on the ink separation page. Depending on which inks you use, the dmax for each shade might be different for each of the two sets of gray dilutions. The reason I mention it is because this can cause problems or might not blend well with the split toning options in QTR.

Richard Boutwell

[Paul Roark]

It usually does not matter which position you use; they are the same.

You might be able to find some 3MK QTR profiles in one of my Eboni-6 or other "Profiles" Zip files.  I tested the 1400 with that approach and probably posted something, but you're using Google to find my various postings will be as good as my trying to do it.

If you don't find the 1400 3MK profiles, adapt the 1800 3MK versions, but adjusting the ink limits.

Good luck.  It will be interesting to hear how the various MKs print. 

BTW, Epson entered the bulk carbon MK market with one of its Eco Tank blacks.  Most are dyes, but one is a true carbon ink -- and very cheap.  It's a little warmer than the MIS Eboni MK I prefer, and the Eboni (v. 1.1) actually and surprisingly did better in my centrifuge test than the Epson Eco Tank MK when they were both diluted to the same density.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Erland]

I am today using my printer as intended with CcMmYK inks. Though i am more and more mainly interested in black and white prints, and I love the samples I have seen from true black and white intended printers, especially considering metamerism. The dyes in the Epson is nice on my metallic lustre paper, but the more I print on the Canon 8300S with that paper, and also matte uncoated paper, I tend to prefer the latter. So I decided to convert the 1400 to a black and white printer, and keep printing the color on the canon instead.

So Farbenwerk sells 6 shades of black and white, where I can choose between carbon inks, or those blended with pigment so keep the warmth down, and also be able to choose K for glossy prints. And while I will start with 3 carbon inks (I know it might not be the best to only use three shades, but I hope it will suffice for me on my only-printing-for-myself-budget) I can later also either buy the glossy inks, or get the free K pigments from work. Hence the question before doing this. And thanks for your answers! Will get back to you later on.

[Erland]

It usually does not matter which position you use; they are the same.

You might be able to find some 3MK QTR profiles in one of my Eboni-6 or other "Profiles" Zip files.  I tested the 1400 with that approach and probably posted something, but you're using Google to find my various postings will be as good as my trying to do it.

If you don't find the 1400 3MK profiles, adapt the 1800 3MK versions, but adjusting the ink limits.

Good luck.  It will be interesting to hear how the various MKs print. 

BTW, Epson entered the bulk carbon MK market with one of its Eco Tank blacks.  Most are dyes, but one is a true carbon ink -- and very cheap.  It's a little warmer than the MIS Eboni MK I prefer, and the Eboni (v. 1.1) actually and surprisingly did better in my centrifuge test than the Epson Eco Tank MK when they were both diluted to the same density.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Paul. I have just required the ink for the 3MK test. how do I linearize such a setup?
I'm at work still, so haven't looked properly for the curves. Where do you find those Epson bulk inks? Haven't seen any in Sweden.

[Paul Roark]

For the 1400 3MK QTR curves, go to http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/1400-3MK-Eb4.zip .

The Yahoo Digital B&W Print forum thread on this is at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/messages/106200 .

My note on the Epson Eco Tank carbon is at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/messages/108674

For linearization, if you don't have a spectro, the QTR StepWedge Tool approach using a flatbed is probably the best.  See the QTR download page.  The Readme there is quite clear.

I'll be able to provide more detail if you need it later today.

Good luck.  Keep in mind that for smooth skies, etc., the use of 100% MK ink only (no dilute inks) will show some graininess.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Erland]

thanks Paul for the curves! Helpful indeed!

I tried printing last night, using the R1800 3MK curves, and while those curves are not optimal for my paper, I must say they are insanely sharp. I use the K, C, LC positions, as they are more apart on the printhead, and I have calibrated my 1400 with the Epson service software very, very precisely. So even tones and lighter shades aren't all that grainy. Overall I am very satisfied, just I got to make linearize and make the curves better.

Will try your 3MK for the 1400 today.

[Erland]

Using my 3MK setup on uncoated 250gsm paper, the results are good. Not great dmax, but really a pleasing image.
Paul, do you happen to have the dmax of the Epson ecotank ink? Thinking of buying one to try and compare to my free ink, since it is so cheap.

I was linearizing, or trying to the other day. I used Keith Coopers B&W test image, but the mac workflow is quite cumbersome and the info on the net is scattered and incomplete.
Tried printing the image untagged, selecting ps handles color with the qtr matt paper profile, the same but gg2.2 on the image, and also with the qtr lab profile on the image. all three gave a slight different result and I don't know which one is correct...

[Paul Roark]

...
Paul, do you happen to have the dmax of the Epson ecotank ink? ...

I have put my EcoTank 4550 black ink specto reads at http://www.paulroark.com/BW-Info/Epson%20EcoTank%20Black.zip

On Epson Hot Press Natural with QTR I was getting about Lab L = 13.2.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Paul Roark]

My initial summary of my findings regarding the EcoTank pigment black are here: 

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/conversations/messages/108674

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Erland]

Thank you! Looks like a pretty good ink overall! Will compare it to my ink I'm using right now, though I don't have the exact same paper at the moment.
 Kind Regards!

[Erland]

Update!

I've now bought the Epson ink, and loaded it in my 1400 in 3 cartridges, and it is just great! Really an overall nice warmth and great D-max on my Tecco paper.
I initially had problems with my curves, but realized my yellow channel was completly gone. Moved the ink to the next position and my prints came out wonderful.
2 channels are left for other experiments, perhaps I will try some toning.

[Paul Roark]

I'm glad that's working out for you.

You might want to put a cart full of the generic dilution base or a commercial cleaning fluid in that Y position that is clogged.  It might be able to slowly break through.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

[Erland]

I'm glad that's working out for you.

You might want to put a cart full of the generic dilution base or a commercial cleaning fluid in that Y position that is clogged.  It might be able to slowly break through.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Will try it! Thanks! Did a couple of cleanings and purge prints yesterday, haven't tried since.