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Author Topic: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon  (Read 13993 times)

Zachary Goulko

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A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« on: September 15, 2015, 08:28:37 am »

It's been confirmed that the A7RII will actually be getting uncompressed RAW via firmware update soon

https://alphauniverse.com/stories/sony-announces-addition-of-uncompressed-14-bit-raw-still-image-capture-for-new---cameras/

« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 08:30:56 am by zachary_goulko »
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uaiomex

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2015, 10:12:31 am »

The page is gone. I sense a great disturbance in the force.
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Herbc

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2015, 11:34:11 am »

I got the page ok???
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Kevin Raber

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2015, 11:38:53 am »

Sony Announces Addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW Still Image Capture for New α Cameras
New α7S II to Feature Selectable Compressed and Uncompressed 14 Bit RAW at Launch; Free Firmware Updates Coming for Additional Models Beginning withα7R II

NEW YORK, Sept. 15, 2015 – Sony Electronics, a worldwide leader in digital imaging and the world’s largest image sensor manufacturer, has today announced user selectable Compressed and Uncompressed  14-Bit RAW image capture will be featured in the new α7S II once it arrives in stores this October. 
Additionally, they have announced plans to add user selectable compressed or uncompressed 14-Bit RAW still image capture via firmware update to additional cameras beginning with the recently introduced α7R II full-frame mirrorless model.

“The voice of our α community remains the most important guiding force of our product development plans,” said Neal Manowitz, Deputy Vice President for Digital Imaging at Sony Electronics.  “The addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW processing is a direct result of customer feedback.  Widely requested by photo and video enthusiasts, we believe the choice of RAW processing types will further elevate the performance of these extraordinary cameras.”

The α7S II and α7R II are compatible with Sony’s growing lineup of α -mount lenses, which now totals 64 different models including 13 native ‘FE’ full frame lenses.  By early 2016, Sony will add an additional 8 new lenses to its FE full frame lineup, bringing the FE total to 21 lenses and the overall α -mount assortment to over 70 different models.
A variety of exclusive stories and exciting new content shot with the new α7S II and a7R II cameras plus other Sony α products can be found at www.alphauniverse.com, Sony’s new community site built to educate, inspire and showcase all fans and customers of the Sony α brand.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 11:44:11 am by Jacob Wise »
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Kevin Raber
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uaiomex

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2015, 11:48:27 am »

It's back now.
I think it was pulled because an error. It says now 13 lenses for a total of 21 lenses.
But I still sense a disturbance.   ;D

The page is gone. I sense a great disturbance in the force.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 11:54:12 am by uaiomex »
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2015, 12:07:26 pm »

But I still sense a disturbance.   ;D

Maybe it's FUD ;)

Cheers,
Bart
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Hans Kruse

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2015, 12:18:39 pm »

Maybe it's FUD ;)

Cheers,
Bart

No no, Sony don't need to  ;D

Kevin Raber

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2015, 01:21:05 pm »

BC . . .  Just republished the Sony Press Release to clear up any confusion there was.  We don't as you know print on the home page press releases etc..  I was just passing info along.  And, it's not your imagination.  Sony is the hot topic right now.  We have a lot of other info coming.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2015, 01:44:23 pm »

Hi,

What I would ask myself is if it is fake or real? They just remove the Delta compression and expand 13 bit coding to 14 bit and add a bit of noise? Just to keep Lloyd Chambers happy?

Earlier Sony used to have RAW and cRAW. They perhaps reintroduce that distinction?

Best regards
Erik


Maybe it's FUD ;)

Cheers,
Bart
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photodan

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2015, 03:29:38 pm »

"Uncompressed" ? What Sony is adding (the only thing they are adding as far as I can tell from the press release is) is "The addition of Uncompressed 14-Bit RAW processing is a direct result of customer feedback.", i.e. they don't say they are changing their compressed option or adding anything else.

What the heck...

Personally, I was hoping all these years for LOSSLESSLY COMPRESSED

I hope that the press release from Sony is just using 'uncompressed' as kind of a short hand notation for losslessly compressed.  If not then maybe my evil twin might say that this is Sony's way of teaching us complainers a lesson - "so they don't like our psuedo 14-bit and lossy compression, and some complain bitterly about it,well, let's teach 'em a lesson.  And have to buy larger faster cards to boot, hopefully from us".  Well, no, that's not it, hopefully...

In any case, even if truly uncompressed, with no gimmicks and true 14-bit, then that's good.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2015, 03:36:22 pm by photodan »
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PeterAit

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2015, 04:23:58 pm »

Has anyone produced even the tiniest shred of evidence that this "uncompressed raw" results in better photos? I don't mean the theoretical clap-trap that is all too common on LuLa, but actual visual and artistically relevant evidence.

No.

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Hywel

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2015, 04:49:34 pm »

Has anyone produced even the tiniest shred of evidence that this "uncompressed raw" results in better photos? I don't mean the theoretical clap-trap that is all too common on LuLa, but actual visual and artistically relevant evidence.

I've seen some odd artefacts around high-contrast edges in evening shots and star trail shots especially where I've pulled up the shadows. I haven't had the camera long enough to figure out if the compression scheme is really to blame, maybe it is my post processing. It is consistent with what others have seen and blamed on the lossy compression scheme.

Is it a deal breaker? Far from it.

Would it be nice to have 14 bit lossless compression, or uncompressed if that's the only way they can do it? Yes.

Why wouldn't one want to be able to get a true RAW off the sensor? Then we can see if it actually does make any difference. Until then, no-one knows. It's especially true when one has such a high resolution, high dynamic range, low noise sensor in the camera in the first place. One wants to be able to get the most out if it.

I remember very similar discussions around RAW and JPEG back in the days of the first dSLR's. Back then, it didn't honestly make all that much difference which you shot, because there wasn't much more in the RAW file to extract.But once the sensors improved, the RAW contains much more than the in-camera JPEG. You can still get 90% of the result most of the time if you get your settings spot on and shoot JPEG, but unless you're delivering on a deadline, why would anyone shoot JPEG instead of RAW?

Now the Sony lossy RAW scheme clearly retains much more data than JPEG does... but why not retain all the data, if you can? At least then you can tell if it makes any difference for your own use cases.

Cheers, Hywel


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photodan

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2015, 05:19:32 pm »

Has anyone produced even the tiniest shred of evidence that this "uncompressed raw" results in better photos? I don't mean the theoretical clap-trap that is all too common on LuLa, but actual visual and artistically relevant evidence.
No.

Peter - you may want to check out some of the more techie web sites, of which one is the diglloyd site (Lloyd Chambers; you might have to subscribe to see the review articles which have a photo or two showing the artifacts. I've seen them). But there are others. Also, I  saw it in a couple of my photos with an a7r (I didn't keep them to prove it to anyone as I had seen the technical tests already). So it's not clap-trap. It affects hardly any photos in an obvious way, but it's there.  It is probably not artistically relevant unless you print one of the affected photos really large.  OTOH if you do astrophotography then it might be more of an issue. Michael ('The' Michael) does astrophotography, but then he has his nice Pentax 645Z for that type of work.

Dan
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2015, 11:15:13 am »

Hi,

I don't think Diglloyd's observations correlate with reality on that issue. Delta compression may show some artefacts in rear cases, but I don't think the orange peel artefacts Diglloyd writes about are a result Sony's compression artefacts. To me it may look as over sharpened shot noise.

Best regards
Erik



Peter - you may want to check out some of the more techie web sites, of which one is the diglloyd site (Lloyd Chambers; you might have to subscribe to see the review articles which have a photo or two showing the artifacts. I've seen them). But there are others. Also, I  saw it in a couple of my photos with an a7r (I didn't keep them to prove it to anyone as I had seen the technical tests already). So it's not clap-trap. It affects hardly any photos in an obvious way, but it's there.  It is probably not artistically relevant unless you print one of the affected photos really large.  OTOH if you do astrophotography then it might be more of an issue. Michael ('The' Michael) does astrophotography, but then he has his nice Pentax 645Z for that type of work.

Dan
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2015, 01:04:11 pm »

So how long before its out?

Should I hold off renting one and have the shops update the camera with the uncompressed version before I run my side by side comparison  ?
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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2015, 01:17:25 pm »

Has anyone produced even the tiniest shred of evidence that this "uncompressed raw" results in better photos? I don't mean the theoretical clap-trap that is all too common on LuLa, but actual visual and artistically relevant evidence.

No.

patience grashopper, patience ...

Cheers,
Bart
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Phil Indeblanc

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2015, 01:42:17 pm »

Thanks:-) 

I'm liking the new avatar!

after reading this link belwo, I am more so ready to just get it. Although Torger makes a point about the cost being close to a used MF dB.

http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=104076.msg854631#msg854631
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2015, 02:21:00 am »

There you are. Artifacts in extreme situations are gone. RAW files in all situations double their size:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/6144418951/what-difference-does-it-make-sony-uncompressed-raw




Cheers

Phil Indeblanc

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #18 on: September 24, 2015, 03:06:22 am »

That is great!
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Zachary Goulko

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Re: A7RII - uncompressed RAW coming soon
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2015, 03:38:23 pm »

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Zachary Goulko
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