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Author Topic: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)  (Read 24839 times)

Guillermo Luijk

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Only in dynamic range (base ISO), the Nikon D810 beats the Sony. The A7R II beats the Canon 5DS in every aspect:

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7R-II-versus-Nikon-D810-versus-Canon-EOS-5DS-R___1035_963_1009


Regarding ISO, it is more balanced than the genuine ISOless Sony sensors. That is why it beats the A7S (another non ISOless sensor) up to ISO6400:

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7R-II-versus-Sony-A7R-versus-Sony-A7S___1035_917_949

I wonder how the rumored RAW noise reduction applied by Sony can affect these figures.

Regards

spidermike

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2015, 04:44:48 pm »

There are two parts to any technology: what it is capable of and how it is implanted. As an example Nikon was able seemingly able to get more out of a Sony sensor that were Sony themselves. Is that is what is being measured here? I ask only because DxO is open to so much criticism and its technicalities are way beyond my understanding.
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Jim Kasson

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2015, 04:58:09 pm »

Only in dynamic range (base ISO), the Nikon D810 beats the Sony. The A7R II beats the Canon 5DS in every aspect:

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7R-II-versus-Nikon-D810-versus-Canon-EOS-5DS-R___1035_963_1009


Regarding ISO, it is more balanced than the genuine ISOless Sony sensors. That is why it beats the A7S (another non ISOless sensor) up to ISO6400:

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Sony-A7R-II-versus-Sony-A7R-versus-Sony-A7S___1035_917_949

I wonder how the rumored RAW noise reduction applied by Sony can affect these figures.

From the numbers, these look like single shot (SS) shutter mode results.

While I see evidence  of spatial filtering in bulb shutter modes, I don't see any for camera-timed SS shots. Can you think of a raw noise reduction method that wouldn't show up an a departure from flatness for dark-field spectra?

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11180

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11192

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11542

Jim

eronald

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2015, 05:59:31 pm »

From the numbers, these look like single shot (SS) shutter mode results.

While I see evidence  of spatial filtering in bulb shutter modes, I don't see any for camera-timed SS shots. Can you think of a raw noise reduction method that wouldn't show up an a departure from flatness for dark-field spectra?


A hard offset by some computed noise floor?

Edmund
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Jim Kasson

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2015, 06:46:23 pm »

A hard offset by some computed noise floor?

Edmund

Ah, Edmund, the old M240 trick.

I don't see how that can be the case in the a7RII, since the camera doesn't subtract the black point (nominally 512 in 14-bit representation) before writing the data to the raw file.

There are some typical dark-field histograms in the following post:

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11142

Jim

Paul2660

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2015, 09:17:38 pm »

Looking at the scores, the two are pretty close, within 1 point, and on the individual testing only the low light sports seemed to score better for the Sony.  I had expected the Sony to break 100 or so. 

Paul
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Paul Caldwell
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chez

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2015, 09:44:45 pm »

From the numbers, these look like single shot (SS) shutter mode results.

While I see evidence  of spatial filtering in bulb shutter modes, I don't see any for camera-timed SS shots. Can you think of a raw noise reduction method that wouldn't show up an a departure from flatness for dark-field spectra?

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11180

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11192

http://blog.kasson.com/?p=11542

Jim



Geez...and I thought I clicked on a photography forum. Guess I'll carry on and make photos.
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2015, 01:45:57 am »

Hi,

It seems that Nikon (and Pentax) always make better use of Sony's sensors than Sony themselves. I actually suspect that 100 points are already, not only by RED One but also all Sony based MFD sensors, but DxO has not tested them, unfortunately.

On the other hand, it also shows how much development it takes to get a few DxO points more.

Now, the new Sony sensor was meant to work well with video, having high readout rates, on sensor PDAF and so on. It needed to meet many design targets.

Best regards
Erik

Looking at the scores, the two are pretty close, within 1 point, and on the individual testing only the low light sports seemed to score better for the Sony.  I had expected the Sony to break 100 or so. 

Paul

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Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2015, 03:37:07 am »

Geez...and I thought I clicked on a photography forum. Guess I'll carry on and make photos.

Yes, probably better than reading an "Equipment & Techniques" forum, with a thread that's discussing sensor specifications, and expecting to see pretty pictures of e.g. cats ...

Cheers,
Bart
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2015, 05:06:29 am »

Those results confirm the a7rII as a very talented all rounder.

This being said, the pace of improvement in sensors tech seems to be decreasing significantly even at Sony. The value over a one year old D810 in terms of image quality is questionable.

There are of course other aspects where the a7rII shines.

Cheers,
Bernard

uaiomex

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2015, 05:35:09 am »

Kind of disagree. Then which camera enjoys a non questionable value?


Those results confirm the a7rII as a very talented all rounder.

This being said, the pace of improvement in sensors tech seems to be decreasing significantly even at Sony. The value over a one year old D810 in terms of image quality is questionable.

There are of course other aspects where the a7rII shines.

Cheers,
Bernard

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BernardLanguillier

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2015, 06:11:32 am »

Kind of disagree. Then which camera enjoys a non questionable value?

From an image quality standpoint in terms of delta relative to a D810? None in the 35mm world I believe if you consider overall metrics.

Cheers,
Bernard

ErikKaffehr

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #12 on: August 30, 2015, 12:21:04 pm »

Hi,

That is the essence, there are ares where each system shines. There is no nirvana on earth Some systems excel in one area and some in some others. Select one and live with it…

Best regards
Erik

Those results confirm the a7rII as a very talented all rounder.

This being said, the pace of improvement in sensors tech seems to be decreasing significantly even at Sony. The value over a one year old D810 in terms of image quality is questionable.

There are of course other aspects where the a7rII shines.

Cheers,
Bernard

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scooby70

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #13 on: August 30, 2015, 04:54:49 pm »

Those results confirm the a7rII as a very talented all rounder.

This being said, the pace of improvement in sensors tech seems to be decreasing significantly even at Sony. The value over a one year old D810 in terms of image quality is questionable.

There are of course other aspects where the a7rII shines.

Cheers,
Bernard


To me the point of A7 series cameras is not that they're significantly better than a DSLR but that they're this good in a small form CSC body.

Since going digital what I've wanted is a DSLR of about the same bulk and weight as my 35mm SLR's and a more compact digital to replace the RF's and compact 35mm cameras I used to own and with the A7 series and MFT I now have them bulk wise but weight wise the modern electronic kit is still heavier but they're much more acceptable to me than a heavier and bulkier Canon or Nikon DSLR and lens.  

So, my question isn't "is the A7rII better than a D810" it's "is there anything better in this small a form factor."
« Last Edit: August 30, 2015, 04:58:04 pm by scooby70 »
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eronald

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2015, 04:56:22 pm »

Those results confirm the a7rII as a very talented all rounder.

This being said, the pace of improvement in sensors tech seems to be decreasing significantly even at Sony. The value over a one year old D810 in terms of image quality is questionable.

There are of course other aspects where the a7rII shines.

Cheers,
Bernard


Many people will take 5 axis stab and internal 4K every day.

Edmund
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BernardLanguillier

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2015, 05:54:16 pm »

Many people will take 5 axis stab and internal 4K every day.

Yes, indeed but that isn't something DxO's results cast any new light on.

Cheers,
Bernard

eronald

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2015, 01:46:30 pm »

Yes, indeed but that isn't something DxO's results cast any new light on.

Cheers,
Bernard


If DxO measurements translated directly into sales numbers ... market research and forum disagreements would be a thing of the past :)

Edmund
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ErikKaffehr

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2015, 03:00:37 pm »

Hi,

My take is that wonderful images can be made with almost any camera. Well, I guess that any camera can make great pictures, but some cameras may be more limited than others. Just think interchangeable vs. fixed lens.

After a couple of hundreds of pictures with my new A7rII I would say that it is a great picture making machine. But it is also a complex machine. Takes time to learn.

Just had the camera for 4.5 days, so I don't think I made any great images yet.

Best regards
Erik


If DxO measurements translated directly into wonderful images I'd throw the towel in.
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Guillermo Luijk

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2015, 04:05:10 pm »

There is some explanation for the so close DxO scoring of the A7RII vs Nikon D810, while the real sensor improvement is a bit higher IMO:

- Nikon managed to implement real ISO64 boosting maximum dynamic range
- The A7RII on the other side has increased robustness at high ISOs, probably because it is more video oriented. In fact the behaviour of the A7RII is in the middle point between the A7S and a genuine "ISOless" sensor
- DxO final scoring weights dynamic range a lot. This is the reason why Canon scores unfairly low in the DxO benchmark. I never look at those figures but go straight into the detailed plots.

In brief, while the D810 is still the best performer when set on a tripod, the A7RII is a more balanced camera with outstanding resolution, dynamic range and low light capabilities. More than that single point score could reveal at a first glance.

Regards
« Last Edit: August 31, 2015, 04:14:55 pm by Guillermo Luijk »
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eronald

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Re: DxOMark's verdict: the Sony A7R II's sensor is the new Queen (or King)
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2015, 05:28:35 pm »

As a painter I believe wonderful paintings are created by wonderful people rather than wonderful brushes.

Were your pix published in french camera magazines some 30 years ago?

E.
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