Silverfast printer profiling with Scanner

[Wayne Fox]

Interesting idea.  Would be curious to hear about real world results if anyone tries it ....

http://www.silverfast.com/highlights/printer-calibration/en.html

[digitaldog]

Not at all a new concept. I recall a product or two many, many years ago that used a scanner to build a printer profile. Can't even remember the name. Didn't work very well. Not that this new product doesn't, I have no idea. In theory, using a colorimeter or a device that doesn't really measure spectral data for a profile is iffy. Maybe Mark Segal has tried it.
Let's put it this way, if you own a Spectrophotometer, you'll probably want to use that device.

[Johnny_Johnson]

Mike Chaney (Qimage) released one of the scanner based programs - Profile Prism.

Later,
Johnny

[Mark D Segal]

Maybe Mark Segal has tried it.

Not interested.

[aderickson]

My Epson V750 pro scanner came with a program called Monaco EZColor by X-Rite. It was an all-in-one profiling solution. You could profile your monitor, printer and scanner with it. I built a printer profile with it that was satisfactory but not as good as the one I just built with Argyll and a Colormunki.

Allan

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

I have used it, and I think it is a dead end. Why, because spectrum measurements are needed for proper printer profiles. A scanner is an RGB device with not very well defined characteristics, just like a camera.

Best regards
Erik

Mike Chaney (Qimage) released one of the scanner based programs - Profile Prism.

Later,
Johnny

[aaronchan]

I had tried this product before
http://www.qualux.com/ven.html
I believe u can use this with a scanner as well
pretty good, not the best
but it is very convenient

aaron

[Iliah]

Look at this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Gretag-MacBeth-Spectroscan-3-273-Spectrophotometer-P-N-36-55-53-jy-0-C22-/141718904253?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20ff1addbd

[WayneLarmon]

What Iliah said.  In addition, scanners use spiky LEDs.  I'm attaching a spectrum plot of my Epson V600 flatbed scanner's illuminant LED.  It has a sharp spike in the blues, similar to the LEDs in cheap LED flashlights.  It also has a CRI of 64, which is pretty low.

Proper spectrometers usually use a tungsten illuminant which illuminates the visible spectrum much smoother than a spiky LED can.   If you don't want to go for the Spectroscan that Iliah recommended, consider either a ColorMunki Design or a ColorMunki Photo.  The ColorMunki Photo is a bit more expensive but comes with a ColorChecker mini target.  ColorMunki Design doesn't come with a target.

You can either use the bundled XRite software, or use ArgyllCMS (that is currently being discussed in several threads in this forum.)  Both of these ColorMunkis are real spectrometers.  Beware though: X-Rite sells other ColorMunkis that are only colorimeters and can't be used to profile printers.   Stick to either ColorMunki Design or ColorMunki Photo.

Wayne

(Click on the image to make it large enough to see the spectral plot.)

[RHPS]

What Iliah said.  In addition, scanners use spiky LEDs.  I'm attaching a spectrum plot of my Epson V600 flatbed scanner's illuminant LED.  It has a sharp spike in the blues, similar to the LEDs in cheap LED flashlights.  It also has a CRI of 64, which is pretty low.

Proper spectrometers usually use a tungsten illuminant which illuminates the visible spectrum much smoother than a spiky LED can.

I thought the ColorMunki used a white LED similar to the one in your scanner.....

[Rhossydd]

Mike Chaney (Qimage) released one of the scanner based programs - Profile Prism.

Dreadful. I once wasted a lot of time trying to get acceptable results from that with no luck at all.

[Iliah]

I thought the ColorMunki used a white LED similar to the one in your scanner.....

But the method is different, for each colour patch Munki performs a reading of spectrum power distribution (30 readings, spectrally separated separated through a diffraction grid) vs. 3-band reading with a scanner / colorimeter.

[RHPS]

But the method is different, for each colour patch Munki performs a reading of spectrum power distribution (30 readings, spectrally separated separated through a diffraction grid) vs. 3-band reading with a scanner / colorimeter.

Yes. My point was that a spectrophotometer doesn't have to use a filamant lamp.

[WayneLarmon]

But the method is different, for each colour patch Munki performs a reading of spectrum power distribution (30 readings, spectrally separated separated through a diffraction grid) vs. 3-band reading with a scanner / colorimeter.

So ColorMunkis do use white LEDs?  Does this affect accuracy?  Compared to spectrometers that use tungsten?  (Like the i1Pros do AFAIK.)

Wayne

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

It shouldn't matter! You measure spectral reflectance and the illuminant spectrum and the target is well known.

Best regards
Erik

So ColorMunkis do use white LEDs?  Does this affect accuracy?  Compared to spectrometers that use tungsten?  (Like the i1Pros do AFAIK.)

Wayne

[WayneLarmon]

It shouldn't matter! You measure spectral reflectance and the illuminant spectrum and the target is well known.

But it seems to matter when using, for example, lumpy low CRI LED lighting for photography and attempting to compensate with a custom camera profile.  The spectral reflectance and the illuminant spectrum and the target are also well known.   But nobody wants to use low CRI LED lighting for photography.

Wayne