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Author Topic: Impressive dmax for P800 vs 11800  (Read 3586 times)

nihil

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Impressive dmax for P800 vs 11800
« on: July 30, 2015, 09:02:07 AM »

DMAXP800 ICC    11880 ICC    Difference      P800 ABW    11880 ABW    Difference   
Permajet Oyster2,632,210,422,812,530,28
Ilford Smooth Pearl2,652,190,462,822,580,24
Hahnemühle Photo Rag Baryta   2,642,220,422,762,570,19
Permajet Fibre Base Royal2,612,180,432,772,540,23
Permajet Photo Art Pearl2,431,980,452,582,280,30
Epson Archival Matte1,721,680,041,731,710,02
Permajet Portrait Classic1,691,600,091,691,610,08

As you can see from the numbers, the new black ink in the P800 is a huge upgrade, particularly for glossy media.
The measurements were done in BabelColor, averaged 5-10 times for each printer/paper combination. The ICC profiles were custom made in i1Profiler. Also there is a comparison for Advanced Black and White mode.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2015, 09:55:26 AM by nihil »
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Erlend Mørk
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nihil

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Re: Impressive dmax for P800 vs 11800
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2015, 09:31:05 AM »

I can't wait for the 24/44/64" versions for these new inks.

By the way. Why are the blacks that much deeper with Advanced Black and White compared to ICC-managed color prints? Even a non-color-managed black patch is not nearly as black as with ABW-mode, when comparing the same paper, the same media setting (Luster) and the same color density (0). What kind of magic is going on with ABW? The P800 is "good enough" across the board, but the 11880 could definitely profit if you could achieve the ABW-blacks for color prints too.
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Ernst Dinkla

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Re: Impressive dmax for P800 vs 11800
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2015, 10:50:41 AM »

It is either a result of different ink limits between the two driver modes or in the printer profile CM going on the black is pulled back to get its color hue controlled or the BPC is not working correctly. The last should not happen and hue control of black is a lost battle in my opinion.

You mention two driver modes, try printer managed CM for black Dmax too. I do not recommend it for its color fidelity but I see better Dmax in color prints that way with the HP Z drivers than with application color management.

Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
December 2014 update, 700+ inkjet media white spectral plots



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Jager

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Re: Impressive dmax for P800 vs 11800
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2015, 01:28:48 PM »

I agree.  The blacks of the P800 are notably improved over the previous-generation inksets.  I'm especially impressed with matte papers, where blacks have historically been a weak point.

My initial conclusion with the P800 was that the image quality improvements were subtle enough that if one had a properly operating 3880, there wasn't much in an upgrade.

Now, after six weeks of heavy use, I've changed that view.  For those who want a bump in print quality, the P800 warrants an upgrade
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aaronchan

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Re: Impressive dmax for P800 vs 11800
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2015, 02:16:37 PM »

As I remember, some of us had discuss this "deep black" topic before.
If you still have ProfileMaker 5, you can build an icc profile with the same measurement from i1P.
And you can compare both with your BabelColor.
You should see the PM5 will produce a deeper black than the i1P profile.

i1P produce much smoother gamut but the draw back is it will pull back the black point by somehow.

aaron

nihil

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Re: Impressive dmax for P800 vs 11800
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2015, 04:50:55 PM »

As I remember, some of us had discuss this "deep black" topic before.
If you still have ProfileMaker 5, you can build an icc profile with the same measurement from i1P.

I guess you're referring to the thread I started some years ago: http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=61006.0 It still shows up first in google searches every time I check to see if there's new advice on the subject. I have seen some *tiny* improvements in recent versions of i1Profiler though, cooking new profiles with the same old measurement data. Tiny tiny. But if X-Rite won't *improve* their software, at least the new generation of Epsons renders the issue moot (sort of).
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Erlend Mørk
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John Grennen

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Re: Impressive dmax for P800 vs 11800
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2015, 07:14:55 AM »

Looks like Tomoyuki has spilled the beans on "development secret story" ...

https://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://www.epson.jp/products/pro/kaihatsu/okuyama_2014.htm

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