Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Down

Author Topic: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!  (Read 59658 times)

JaapD

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 303
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2015, 06:56:01 am »

Have you possibly looked at the Fuji X-T10? It's an APS-C camera with the size of an Olympus M43. Maybe best of both worlds? You decide......  ;)
Logged

BradSmith

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 773
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2015, 01:20:11 am »

Have you possibly looked at the Fuji X-T10? It's an APS-C camera with the size of an Olympus M43. Maybe best of both worlds? You decide......  ;)


I looked at the Fuji line and M4/3 from Olympus and Panasonic a few months ago when I wanted to downsize to a smaller, lighter system from Canon APS-c.  The Fuji bodies are close in size to the M4/3's.  But, and it is a big but, the lenses are still comparatively big, heavy APS-c lenses whereas the M4/3 lenses seem downright tiny by comparison.  Ultimately, the lenses determine the overall size and weight of what you're carrying in your bag or around your neck.

I went for M4/3 because of this fact.  I don't miss anything about my Canon except the comparative simplicity of the various buttons/menus/customization compared to the complex Oly E-M1 that I purchased. 
Brad
Logged

Peter_DL

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 544
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2015, 03:00:01 pm »

... I've been shooting Nikon APS-C for about 10+ years.  Travel weight for the Nikon system is becoming an issue (D7100+backup, F2.8 17-55, 10-20 and F2.8 70-200)-so I am now starting to seek input on a full switch to mirrorless...

...your guess on a successor to the OMD EM1 by, say, December ? What about the Sony system - would it's resolution/dynamic range capabilities be worth it over having the same EM1 bodies ? Panasonic instead of Olympus ?
Ignore the weight issue and go to full frame Nikon, to get the dynamic range, as I already have an investment in a few F2.8 FX lenses - or can the EM1 match that enough that the Nikon FX premium would not be worth it

I went through similar considerations and "headaches",
and finally decided to stay with Nikon APS-C for the time being:
/>  upgraded to the D7200
/>  my new 2.8-4.0/16-80 lens arrived just today :)
both together are reasonably smaller than e.g. the D750 + 24-120 lens
/>  the 4.0/70-200 was already mentioned to save some further weight vs. the 2.8 version.
With the APS-C D7200 in 1.3 crop mode it reaches nearly 400 mm eq.

The higher weight of the D7200 vs. the D5500 is not necessarily only a negative attribute.
It may play its role to eliminate the mirror slap / shutter shock issue which I found with the D5500. Noted here. Not so with the D7200. I wish Nikon would take the D5xxx series more serious, a kind of Nikon X-T2 could be nice. Anyway, mirrorless does not seem to be per se free of such effects, even without mirror, from what I read.

Regarding sensor performance and image quality, maybe I did not check intensively enough into the m4/3 format, however, one step smaller, with the 1"-type sensor of the Canon G7X my conclusion is not positive at all (it is actually the same 1" sensor as with the currently acclaimed G3X).  From what I can tell one Achilles' heel are tonal gradations such as with skin tones - which often look grainy and with harsh tonal transitions particularly when parts of e.g. a face are in the shadows. I think it is related to what DxO describes in the category "Tonal Range", and where the 1" sensor just receives a yellow-to-red rating, even at base ISO.

So based on these (my individual) experiences, I'll give it some further time until considering again to downsize.
YMMV.

Peter

--
Logged

Paulo Bizarro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 7407
    • http://www.paulobizarro.com
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #23 on: July 31, 2015, 03:54:31 am »

Micro 4/3 Oly EM1 or even Fuji XT1 are difficult to justify when the Sony A7's are about the same size. And the IQ on the Sony's is arguably superior.

The only caveat: long lenses, if you need them. I think there is a Sigma 100-500 that comes with Sony mount (I think it has even been reviewed here). The longest native FE lens is the Sony SEL 70-200 f4. Of course you can also mount Sony SAL lenses via appropriate adaptors.

spidermike

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 535
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #24 on: July 31, 2015, 05:17:38 am »

Body only, I agree, but you can't take a photo without a lens attached to it and don't forget the impact of having additional lenses in your bag.


http://camerasize.com/compact/#482.412,624.393,440.327,ha,t

(12-40 lens on the E-M1, 24-70 on the Sony and Nikon)


Quote
Micro 4/3 Oly EM1 or even Fuji XT1 are difficult to justify when the Sony A7's are about the same size.

Whether the size difference is worth the cost in quality only the user can decide but printing up to A3 I doubt anyone could tell the difference. But you have the 12-40 with three primes in your bag and/or a longer zoom and the weight/bulk saving will be considerable.
Logged

Bob Rockefeller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 548
  • macOS, iOS, OM Systems, Epson P800
    • Bob Rockefeller
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2015, 06:09:06 am »

Micro 4/3 Oly EM1 or even Fuji XT1 are difficult to justify when the Sony A7's are about the same size. And the IQ on the Sony's is arguably superior.

As has been said elsewhere, it's not so much the body as the lenses. A full frame sensor is going to require a larger lens, at constant aperture, than a smaller sensor. The lack of a mirror helps some, but it helps them all. It's the size of the m4/3 sensor that allows the fine quality M.Zuiko PRO lenses to be as small as they are.
Logged
Bob Rockefeller
Midway, GA   www.bobrockefeller.com

Paulo Bizarro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 7407
    • http://www.paulobizarro.com
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #26 on: July 31, 2015, 11:45:52 am »

As has been said elsewhere, it's not so much the body as the lenses. A full frame sensor is going to require a larger lens, at constant aperture, than a smaller sensor. The lack of a mirror helps some, but it helps them all. It's the size of the m4/3 sensor that allows the fine quality M.Zuiko PRO lenses to be as small as they are.


Well, lets look at actual figures (dimensions in mm, weight in g):

   O12-40   O40-150   S24-70   S70-200
Length   84    160              95                175
Diameter   70     79              73                  80
Weight   382     880             426                 840

I would argue that the increase in size from the Oly to the Sony lenses is not that big; and as for any weight gain in the 4/3 system, well, it is hardly noticeable.

As for the gain in IQ, there is no comparison. I know it well, I have used the EM1 with fine lenses for a while, the noise in long exposure landscape work was just too much.

The Sony A7 system is for all intents and purposes the same size and weight as a micro 4/3 system. And it is FF.
    

Paulo Bizarro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 7407
    • http://www.paulobizarro.com
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2015, 11:49:49 am »

Body only, I agree, but you can't take a photo without a lens attached to it and don't forget the impact of having additional lenses in your bag.


http://camerasize.com/compact/#482.412,624.393,440.327,ha,t

(12-40 lens on the E-M1, 24-70 on the Sony and Nikon)


Whether the size difference is worth the cost in quality only the user can decide but printing up to A3 I doubt anyone could tell the difference. But you have the 12-40 with three primes in your bag and/or a longer zoom and the weight/bulk saving will be considerable.

I was not comparing to DSLR systems. All I was saying is that the Sony A7 system offers a much better sensor compared to micro 4/3. When you look at your pic above for comparison, the EM1 with 12-40 vs. A7 with 24-70, yes, the Sony lens is a little bigger, but the difference is quite small (see my previous post for size and weight comparisons).

All I am saying is that the Sony A7 is FF, and it is about the same size and weight (with similar lenses) to a micro 4/3 EM1-based system. While providing much better sensor.

Bob Rockefeller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 548
  • macOS, iOS, OM Systems, Epson P800
    • Bob Rockefeller
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2015, 01:20:33 pm »

Well, lets look at actual figures (dimensions in mm, weight in g):

   O12-40   O40-150   S24-70   S70-200
Length   84    160              95                175
Diameter   70     79              73                  80
Weight   382     880             426                 840


I'm learning more about the Sony. It looks like both Sonys are F4.0 while the M.Zuiko PROs are F2.8. If so, the weights are not "apples-to-apples."


« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 03:14:22 pm by Bob Rockefeller »
Logged
Bob Rockefeller
Midway, GA   www.bobrockefeller.com

spidermike

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 535
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2015, 02:31:26 pm »

I was not comparing to DSLR systems. All I was saying is that the Sony A7 system offers a much better sensor compared to micro 4/3. When you look at your pic above for comparison, the EM1 with 12-40 vs. A7 with 24-70, yes, the Sony lens is a little bigger, but the difference is quite small (see my previous post for size and weight comparisons).

All I am saying is that the Sony A7 is FF, and it is about the same size and weight (with similar lenses) to a micro 4/3 EM1-based system. While providing much better sensor.

Point taken, Paulo but when recommending a system to someone it is necessary to know that is important to that person, and obviously for you the ISO in long exposure is important, but that is not the case for everyone - for example the Sony is nearly three times the price of the E-M1 and if all your shots are in pretty good light, who ares about long exposure noise?.
Logged

Telecaster

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3686
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2015, 05:26:55 pm »

I own an A7r and various m43 cameras. Looking at stats is IMO not that useful when comparing the two. You have to use 'em both in action to appreciate their differences. Let's just say my m43 gear isn't going anywhere. The A7r…jury's still out despite recent lens purchases. YMMV.

-Dave-
Logged

John Camp

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2171
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2015, 07:44:41 pm »

As a Nikon and Panasonic shooter, I just saw the Sony A7 a few days ago and was quite surprised by the small size of it. I haven't done a lot of numbers on size and length of the lenses, but to tell the truth, the Sony lenses on display were not significantly different than those on my Nikon system (not much smaller) and quite a bit larger than my m4/3 lenses. I agree that the size /numbers given by Paul would suggest that there isn't much difference, but from what I saw, there certainly is. I just looked quickly at B&H and Panasonic zooms to find two comparable lenses. The closest I could get was the Panasonic 14-140 (equiv. 28-280) f3.5-5.6 and the Sony 24-240 f3.5-6.3. The Panny is 2.64 inches (67mm) in diameter and 2.95 inches (75mm) long. It weights 265 grams. The Sony is 3.17 inches (80.5mm) in diameter and and 4.67 inches (118.5mm) long. It weighs 780 grams.

So the Sony is wider, not quite twice as long, and weighs almost three times as much. None of this, of course, says anything about build or use of plastics vs. metals, although I have not been unhappy with my Panasonic lenses. Also, I'm not sure that B&H shows all the Sony lens offerings, but they appear to have no zooms faster than f4, and the lens selection appears to be much more limited. I could be mistaken about this, and might not have seen all the lens offerings.

I also suspect that the difference between f2.8 and f4 has become a lot less important than it was in the film days, because high-ISO quality is so much better. For most people, that one-stop difference in lens speed may not be as important as the reduction in weight. 
Logged

LesPalenik

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5339
    • advantica blog
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2015, 09:15:06 pm »

Quote
I also suspect that the difference between f2.8 and f4 has become a lot less important than it was in the film days, because high-ISO quality is so much better. For most people, that one-stop difference in lens speed may not be as important as the reduction in weight.

Very true. Especially for the landscape shooters, who typically need greater DOF rather than a creamy bokeh.
Logged

Mjollnir

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 547
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #33 on: August 01, 2015, 11:28:42 am »

I also suspect that the difference between f2.8 and f4 has become a lot less important than it was in the film days, because high-ISO quality is so much better. For most people, that one-stop difference in lens speed may not be as important as the reduction in weight. 

^^^ Ding!  We have a winner!
Logged

Bob Rockefeller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 548
  • macOS, iOS, OM Systems, Epson P800
    • Bob Rockefeller
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #34 on: August 01, 2015, 11:35:42 am »

^^^ Ding!  We have a winner!

Well....

Like most things in photography, it depends.

It depends on what kind of depth of field you're after, for one thing. That one stop difference might be important. Or it might not.
Logged
Bob Rockefeller
Midway, GA   www.bobrockefeller.com

spidermike

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 535
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2015, 03:32:14 pm »

And the Olympus is £400 cheaper (in UK = approx 600USD)

Again, priorities....
Logged

Bob Rockefeller

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 548
  • macOS, iOS, OM Systems, Epson P800
    • Bob Rockefeller
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2015, 04:23:21 pm »

The bodies are "only" $200 different on the US Amazon.

But what's more important is what the costs are for the kit you need to do what you do.
Logged
Bob Rockefeller
Midway, GA   www.bobrockefeller.com

Paulo Bizarro

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Online Online
  • Posts: 7407
    • http://www.paulobizarro.com
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #37 on: August 03, 2015, 04:43:20 am »

I was trying to compare the "pro" 24-70 and 70-200 sort of zoom offers from both systems. And they are not that different in terms of size and weight. Of course the Oly is equiv. to 80-300mm.

As for comparing apertures, well, that is a wasps nest, as m4/3 f2.8 is equivalent, DOF wise, to f5.6. Whereas the Sony FF f4 is a true f4.

Indeed, there is nothing like trying them out, and choose according to one's needs. All I was trying to do was to introduce a third variable from a mirrorless system that is not that big compared to m4/3, and has a very palpable advantage regarding sensor size.

Ntex

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2015, 05:35:43 pm »

I have the exact same question as the OP...I am going to Antarctica with Lindblad this winter and need to upgrade my camera gear.  Weight is a serious/ growing concern  as I get older, and I am not a professional photographer, and don't print big.  However, I want a system that I can use to react quickly to what is around me.  I am so familiar with my Nikon D7000 that upgrading to the 7200 and upgrading to a better lens at the long end has a lot of appeal.  I could take along the D7000 as backup.  But this is going to be a big camera kit compared to the Olympus system. The size/weight reduction and quality of the available lens set for the Olympus holds huge appeal.  However, one of my concerns about the Olympus is the AF system.  I have read that it can be slow and I dont want to miss a shot while it is searching for focus. In fact, wasnt this mentioned as. A problem in one of the Antarctica trip reports?
Logged

nma

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 312
Re: 4/3 vs Nikon APS-C - System Switch ? Looking for your opinions!
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2015, 11:33:14 pm »

I have the exact same question as the OP...I am going to Antarctica with Lindblad this winter and need to upgrade my camera gear.  Weight is a serious/ growing concern  as I get older, and I am not a professional photographer, and don't print big.  However, I want a system that I can use to react quickly to what is around me.  I am so familiar with my Nikon D7000 that upgrading to the 7200 and upgrading to a better lens at the long end has a lot of appeal.  I could take along the D7000 as backup.  But this is going to be a big camera kit compared to the Olympus system. The size/weight reduction and quality of the available lens set for the Olympus holds huge appeal.  However, one of my concerns about the Olympus is the AF system.  I have read that it can be slow and I dont want to miss a shot while it is searching for focus. In fact, wasnt this mentioned as. A problem in one of the Antarctica trip reports?

You should have no concern whatsoever regarding Olympus autofocus on E-M1, E-M5 for landscape and nature photography, providing you are using m43 lenses such as the 12-40, 40-150 and 7-14 pro zooms (waterproof and freeze proof, too).  These zooms and the m43 primes focus very rapidly and the focus is dead-on accurate. The issues of searching for focus mainly refers to the use of the older four thirds lenses that require adapters. The other issue with m43 focusing is tracking fast moving subjects, not of concern in landscape photography. This is also not any concern for m43 lenses if you want to picture a penguin or seal.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3   Go Up