Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Down

Author Topic: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.  (Read 24758 times)

Jeff Fenske

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.
« Reply #40 on: July 13, 2015, 04:55:56 am »

Hello!
Based upon DXO, which cites, they equate a correlation of color sensitivity and color depth. Certainly, Canon was stating that the new CFA would help in this regard, but from this particular metric no real change is seen.  “a much stronger CFA [color filter array] which will produce much greater color accuracy than anything currently in the Canon lineup.”

I was so excited when I read that. But did Canon ever really say that?

PetaPixel said they got it from Canon Rumors, who said:

The first thing people have noticed is the maximum ISO of 6400 for both the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R.

We’re told this is because of a much stronger CFA which will produce much greater color accuracy than anything currently in the Canon lineup.


But does anyone know if Canon ever said this?

It is strange that the 5Ds/5DsR have such low high-ISOs, and then end up having fairly good, low noise at high ISOs.

Did they initially plan on using stronger CFAs, and then change their mind?

Or are the CFAs stronger…?

Logged

dwswager

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1375
Re: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.
« Reply #41 on: July 13, 2015, 01:08:54 pm »

The Canon versus Sony sensors debate is getting a bit long in the tooth, right :)

With the really good HDR function in Lightroom this is become an almost non issue. However there is no excuse for the lower than average performance of the Canon sensor. Shooting both Canon and Nikon I prefer the Canon body design and the Canon lenses, so if Canon suddenly had winning sensors there would be no contest. But I would still shoot both.

Oddly enough, at the present time, I prefer Canon's lens lineup to that of Nikon even though I switched to Nikon years ago specifically for their lenses and flash system.  I do, however prefer Nikon's usability over Canon though neither wins any awards for human factors engineering, especially in the software side.

Bottom line is that you can make either work in almost every situation.  Each has it's strengths and limitations.  And, at the end of the day, their is more to making great images than just the tools.
Logged

shadowblade

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2794
Re: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.
« Reply #42 on: July 13, 2015, 02:06:31 pm »

Oddly enough, at the present time, I prefer Canon's lens lineup to that of Nikon even though I switched to Nikon years ago specifically for their lenses and flash system.  I do, however prefer Nikon's usability over Canon though neither wins any awards for human factors engineering, especially in the software side.

Bottom line is that you can make either work in almost every situation.  Each has it's strengths and limitations.  And, at the end of the day, their is more to making great images than just the tools.

That I prefer Canon lenses but Nikon bodies is precisely the reason I'm currently shooting Sony!
Logged

MatthewCromer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 505
Re: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.
« Reply #43 on: July 13, 2015, 03:49:23 pm »

After seeing this image from the 5DS, I realized why 15 stops of DR really matters for what I want to do with my photography:

http://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/3673531883/5DS-TulipSunrise-FullSize.jpeg

Logged

Wayne Fox

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4237
    • waynefox.com
Re: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.
« Reply #44 on: July 14, 2015, 12:52:37 pm »

Lee can't keep up with the demand for ND grads. Filters will remain important tools in the video industry for a while, at least for those not shooting full RAW.
Very true, I have a hard time keeping them in stock.  Demand over the past 3 years or so has increased dramatically.

I have found I use grads more than before, but I use them a little differently than before as well.  I’m no longer afraid of letting the grad affect some areas that I would prefer to be left alone, and find it’s often easier to fix this as a problem in post than dealing with an entire sky.
Logged

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2102
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.
« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2015, 11:20:33 am »

After seeing this image from the 5DS, I realized why 15 stops of DR really matters for what I want to do with my photography:

http://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/3673531883/5DS-TulipSunrise-FullSize.jpeg



A shot like this is easy to do with even less DR. Two methods: 1) Bracket 5 shots with only the sun clipped and the shadows exposed well. Then do an HDR merge in Lightroom and it looks the same as a single shot but with absolutely no shadow noise. 2) Again bracket like before and choose the exposure with only the sun clipped and one exposure about 3 tops higher with good exposure of the shadows and then blend the two in Photoshop.

For some shots of this type even the Nikon D810 does not have enough DR to show noiseless shadows.

Here is an example of a shot with the sun in the picture that was done by HDR merge in Lightroom 6 https://500px.com/photo/114240315/morning-light-at-castelluccio-by-hans-kruse?from=user_library and the look is exactly the same as a single RAW file edited photo.

The bracket sequence was shot within two seconds on continuous shooting in live view with EFCS on the Canon 5D III. The longest exposure was 1/25s at f/16. The entire photo completely noiseless.

Jeff Fenske

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.
« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2015, 12:02:43 pm »

A shot like this is easy to do with even less DR. Two methods: 1) Bracket 5 shots with only the sun clipped and the shadows exposed well. Then do an HDR merge in Lightroom and it looks the same as a single shot but with absolutely no shadow noise. 2) Again bracket like before and choose the exposure with only the sun clipped and one exposure about 3 tops higher with good exposure of the shadows and then blend the two in Photoshop.

For some shots of this type even the Nikon D810 does not have enough DR to show noiseless shadows.

Here is an example of a shot with the sun in the picture that was done by HDR merge in Lightroom 6 https://500px.com/photo/114240315/morning-light-at-castelluccio-by-hans-kruse?from=user_library and the look is exactly the same as a single RAW file edited photo.

The bracket sequence was shot within two seconds on continuous shooting in live view with EFCS on the Canon 5D III. The longest exposure was 1/25s at f/16. The entire photo completely noiseless.

Very nice! But look at what happens to the rays of the sun multiplying, and being bunched up, because of the stacking of images together. Maybe some don't mind, but this is one of the problems of HDR that looks artificial to me.

When there is movement, which so often is the case, a single shot is often preferable.

And a single shot allows smart objects to be used in PS with Nik, so the settings in ACR can be changed at any time throughout the editing process, instead of having to start all over.

I was hoping Nik would add a feature to their HDR program that would allow us to select which image would be used in areas where details overlap.

For example, it would be nice to select this sunbeam area and be able to delete the bright rays from all of the images but the best one.

I don't know if software developers can make this happen (like Adobe with LR), but since Google bought Nik, they haven't been developing any of the existing programs further. Which is kind of sad, because they own the patent for U-point technology, and are now just sitting on it.
Logged

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2102
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2015, 12:20:11 pm »

Very nice! But look at what happens to the rays of the sun multiplying, and being bunched up, because of the stacking of images together. Maybe some don't mind, but this is one of the problems of HDR that looks artificial to me.

When there is movement, which so often is the case, a single shot is often preferable.

And a single shot allows smart objects to be used in PS with Nik, so the settings in ACR can be changed at any time throughout the editing process, instead of having to start all over.

I was hoping Nik would add a feature to their HDR program that would allow us to select which image would be used in areas where details overlap.

For example, it would be nice to select this sunbeam area and be able to delete the bright rays from all of the images but the best one.

I don't know if software developers can make this happen (like Adobe with LR), but since Google bought Nik, they haven't been developing any of the existing programs further. Which is kind of sad, because they own the patent for U-point technology, and are now just sitting on it.

I have attached a screen shot from Lightroom showing the sun beams. The left hand side is from the DNG file which is the merged file and the right hand side is from the -3EV bracket shot. The beams are not merged to multiply as far as I can see. It's the lens that made the starburst like this, like it or not :) Usually in landscape photography I do not have movement that is a problem, but I prefer a single shot, of course, which is the case almost always. If there is a problem I will blend the images together in Photoshop as mentioned.

I find Lightroom HDR har superior to any of the traditional HDR programs although I must admit I have not used any of them for a couple of years now after 32bit TIFF support came in Lightroom. Since LR 6 I have not used that either. I usually do not need to re-merge the shots as I do all the editing on the resulting DNG file so there is no need for smart objects in Photoshop in my view. If a single shot is ok then I will choose the single shot from the bracket sequence that has the acceptable compromise between clipped highlights and noise in the shadows.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2015, 12:25:37 pm by Hans Kruse »
Logged

Jeff Fenske

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7
Re: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2015, 02:04:22 pm »

I have attached a screen shot from Lightroom showing the sun beams. The left hand side is from the DNG file which is the merged file and the right hand side is from the -3EV bracket shot. The beams are not merged to multiply as far as I can see. It's the lens that made the starburst like this, like it or not :) Usually in landscape photography I do not have movement that is a problem, but I prefer a single shot, of course, which is the case almost always. If there is a problem I will blend the images together in Photoshop as mentioned.

I find Lightroom HDR har superior to any of the traditional HDR programs although I must admit I have not used any of them for a couple of years now after 32bit TIFF support came in Lightroom. Since LR 6 I have not used that either. I usually do not need to re-merge the shots as I do all the editing on the resulting DNG file so there is no need for smart objects in Photoshop in my view. If a single shot is ok then I will choose the single shot from the bracket sequence that has the acceptable compromise between clipped highlights and noise in the shadows.


WoW! I don't recall ever noticing a lens do that before. Thanks for explaining. LR did a good job then.

I had a situation where I tried to do a HDR in Nik, with the shots being seconds apart, because I did the exposure changes manually. I think the sun actually even moved position, slightly. The HDR blend multiplied all of the suns rays, so I never did finish the image.
Logged

Hans Kruse

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2102
    • Hans Kruse Photography
Re: DXO Mark - 5DS / R - Best Canon Sensor Yet.
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2015, 06:05:28 pm »

WoW! I don't recall ever noticing a lens do that before. Thanks for explaining. LR did a good job then.

I had a situation where I tried to do a HDR in Nik, with the shots being seconds apart, because I did the exposure changes manually. I think the sun actually even moved position, slightly. The HDR blend multiplied all of the suns rays, so I never did finish the image.

I prefer the sun burst that this lens gives (the Canon 24-70 f/2.8L II) at f/8 rather than f/16, but in this shot I felt that f/16 would be the right aperture to get the foreground sharp.

I shoot the Canon in live view in continous mode which means that the EFCS gives no shutter shake as at shorter focal lengths as the 24-70 and the bracketing is done within 2 seconds at the most. I shoot the Nikon D810 in the same way btw. Only for longer focal lengths as the 70-200 I use the EFCS in MUP mode in live view.
Pages: 1 2 [3]   Go Up