Sony announces the new 42 MP A7rII, and this might be good for the MF market

[Steve Hendrix]

It is well documented that the IQ180 and the IQ280 has less dynamic range than a 3-year old Nikon D800E (Sony IMX094 CMOS sensor). At getdpi I have posted RAW files taken by me, as well as quantatitive data measured by different websites. If you believe in a miracle that the IQ380 has an improvement over the IQ280 then feel free to go ahead with an IQ380 and compare it against a Nikon D800E/Sony A7R and post the RAW files so I can teach you why Dalsa CCD sensors have inferior dynamic range than Sony CMOS. (Hint: try to cool down the IQ380 so you can slap in my face.)

Oh well, you need me to show you how gear performance makes a difference when capturing an image? What is your definition of good photography?

VS -

I think the issue that pokes at most is when you describe excellent products as having "poor dynamic range". You've made plenty of reasonable arguments and examples that show the benefit of (Sony) CMOS sensors for dynamic range and especially push-ability. Perhaps it's just a matter of semantics, but if you framed your argument and examples as *Sony CMOS having better dynamic range*, rather than *anything else being poor or insufficient*, you might actually become someone who is looked to for beneficial information, rather than someone who seems intent on distortion to pursue some sort of agenda.

There would be nothing wrong with making that subtle change in delivery, that I can see.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

[eronald]

VS -

I think the issue that pokes at most is when you describe excellent products as having "poor dynamic range". You've made plenty of reasonable arguments and examples that show the benefit of (Sony) CMOS sensors for dynamic range and especially push-ability. Perhaps it's just a matter of semantics, but if you framed your argument and examples as *Sony CMOS having better dynamic range*, rather than *anything else being poor or insufficient*, you might actually become someone who is looked to for beneficial information, rather than someone who seems intent on distortion to pursue some sort of agenda.

There would be nothing wrong with making that subtle change in delivery, that I can see.


Steve Hendrix
Capture Integration

In case anyone wishes to recycle an IQ280, I would be willing to transport it to the landfill free of charge

Edmund

[synn]

Somebody please write to Bruce Percy informing him of the "Poor" dynamic range of all the Velvia he has been using!

[eronald]

Somebody please write to Bruce Percy informing him of the "Poor" dynamic range of all the Velvia he has been using!

+1

Edmund

[BernardLanguillier]

Somebody please write to Bruce Percy informing him of the "Poor" dynamic range of all the Velvia he has been using!

Right. A brand new Tata GenX Nano XTA (costing the same as a Zeiss Otus 85mm f1.4 btw) bought in Margao is able to bring a person from point A to point B so the owners of larger/faster/more comfortable cars are just imagining that those aspects are important to them.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Joe Towner]

I challenge someone to shoot a sharper, larger, single image than the IQ280 puts out.  You'd be pulling out sheet film, and oh yea, you don't get a second chance with it.  There are times when there is no option, the 80mp shot is what I want.  Like today, helicopter flight would have loved the IQ380 on a XF body for iso200+ 1/1200th shots, but alas I was shooting my H4 and was at ISO50/100 limited to 1/800th.

I like that Sony is doing lots with their CMOS, more so because that tech will end up in the follow on chip used in the IQ250/-50c/645z.  Ditto for Canon, though I personally am more interested in the 5DsR due to the AF and great white supertele lens.  Since both should be supported by CaptureOne for tethering, there is all types of fun possible

The upside for the MF market, and more specifically the pro, folks will see what higher resolution looks like, but due to end user not being knowledgeable about how to extract the best image from it, I can come in and charge accordingly. 

-Joe

[eronald]

I challenge someone to shoot a sharper, larger, single image than the IQ280 puts out.  You'd be pulling out sheet film, and oh yea, you don't get a second chance with it.  There are times when there is no option, the 80mp shot is what I want.  Like today, helicopter flight would have loved the IQ380 on a XF body for iso200+ 1/1200th shots, but alas I was shooting my H4 and was at ISO50/100 limited to 1/800th.

I like that Sony is doing lots with their CMOS, more so because that tech will end up in the follow on chip used in the IQ250/-50c/645z.  Ditto for Canon, though I personally am more interested in the 5DsR due to the AF and great white supertele lens.  Since both should be supported by CaptureOne for tethering, there is all types of fun possible

The upside for the MF market, and more specifically the pro, folks will see what higher resolution looks like, but due to end user not being knowledgeable about how to extract the best image from it, I can come in and charge accordingly. 

-Joe

It looks like the new A7RII can AF the Canon lenses with a really simple adapter.

Edmund

[larkis]

They are not mentioning if the A7R II has an improved raw file format (uncompressed). The current models pre cook the files and show compression artifacts in certain situations. Besides that, I'm quite excited to replace by two existing A7R bodies with the new ones. I wonder what the old ones can be sold for….

[EricWHiss]

I have felt that the MF look is still different from the smaller formats, but I'll be very interested to see what this new Sony can do.  The 5 axis on sensor stabilization, new sensor and other refinements do sound really excellent.  I'm sure they will sell a lot of these.   I'd like to see the sensor stabilization find its way into MFDB.

[Chris Livsey]

I wonder what the old ones can be sold for….

Less tomorrow than yesterday 

But then for all digital gear that holds true, the rate of descent may vary.

[Chris Livsey]

Somebody please write to Bruce Percy informing him of the "Poor" dynamic range of all the Velvia he has been using!

QUOTE
Which brings me on to the subject of dynamic range. My film only has around 3 to 4 stops, but it turns out that most of the beautiful light we are seeking tends to happen within this small dynamic range anyway. I'm never too sure why there is such a desire at the moment to get more and more dynamic range, as I feel that one of the skills of a photographer is to learn to work with the confines of what we're given. END QUOTE
http://www.brucepercy.co.uk/blog/
May 9th 2015

[torger]

QUOTE
Which brings me on to the subject of dynamic range. My film only has around 3 to 4 stops, but it turns out that most of the beautiful light we are seeking tends to happen within this small dynamic range anyway. I'm never too sure why there is such a desire at the moment to get more and more dynamic range, as I feel that one of the skills of a photographer is to learn to work with the confines of what we're given. END QUOTE
http://www.brucepercy.co.uk/blog/
May 9th 2015

In general photographers like to talk about their own shooting style and assume that everyone else should shoot the same way. The need of dynamic range is much related to the shooting style and post-processing style. Personally I don't need that much, my images are more often shot in overcast weather and without sky visible than otherwise. Not all shoot that kind of images and I don't expect others should. In fact I hope that few do as it makes my style more personal

When it comes to light I can agree with Bruce that the light I like the most fits in a relatively small dynamic range. But, there are many other styles of photography and it's not hard to find those that make extensive use of the new possibilities through very high dynamic range, especially in the more broadly popular styles.

But BSI coming to large sensors... oh boy! Can't wait to see how it performs with say an SK35 or SK28 with 15mm shift! It's hard to predict how well it will perform though, in the best of worlds it's a real new start for tech cams, and just imagine if Hassy make a CFV-50c II with similar pricing as the current.

[eronald]

Wonderful texture in this image. I like it.

Edmund.

In general photographers like to talk about their own shooting style and assume that everyone else should shoot the same way. The need of dynamic range is much related to the shooting style and post-processing style. Personally I don't need that much, my images are more often shot in overcast weather and without sky visible than otherwise. Not all shoot that kind of images and I don't expect others should. In fact I hope that few do as it makes my style more personal

When it comes to light I can agree with Bruce that the light I like the most fits in a relatively small dynamic range. But, there are many other styles of photography and it's not hard to find those that make extensive use of the new possibilities through very high dynamic range, especially in the more broadly popular styles.

But BSI coming to large sensors... oh boy! Can't wait to see how it performs with say an SK35 or SK28 with 15mm shift! It's hard to predict how well it will perform though, in the best of worlds it's a real new start for tech cams, and just imagine if Hassy make a CFV-50c II with similar pricing as the current.

[torger]

Wonderful texture in this image. I like it.

Thank you.

It's a willow tree partially broke in pieces after a record winter in terms of snow depth. Many trees around here did not stand up for the pressure of all snow.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

This is sort of limiting our vision to what or equipment can handle.

I have been shooting Velvia since it's inception, as I was looking for a replacement for Kodachrome when I felt processing times were no more acceptable.

What I can say is that it is difficult to scan. I would say drum scanning may be needed to scan in properly, even if it may be as good to dupe it with a sensor having high DR. Density range on that film is around 4.0 some something like 13 EV is needed to handle it properly.

Even if the subject just covers 4-5 EV, I still would suggest that a sensor having a wide DR will be able to reproduce darks better than a 5EV sensor.

Cell phone sensors have a significant limitation in DR.

Zacuto demonstrated that movie quality motion picture can be made with an iPhone 4S, if illumination was adjusted to match the capabilities of the sensor. Most DPs seem not to regard a a low DR as a virtue and use more expensive gear.

Best regards
Erik

QUOTE
Which brings me on to the subject of dynamic range. My film only has around 3 to 4 stops, but it turns out that most of the beautiful light we are seeking tends to happen within this small dynamic range anyway. I'm never too sure why there is such a desire at the moment to get more and more dynamic range, as I feel that one of the skills of a photographer is to learn to work with the confines of what we're given. END QUOTE
http://www.brucepercy.co.uk/blog/
May 9th 2015

[Chris Livsey]

"I feel that one of the skills of a photographer is to learn to work with the confines of what we're given"

What we are being given is an opportunity now to capture, successfully, a larger DR. Learning to work with that to produce images that "work" is the challenge.
As usual the limitation is not the equipment, it's knowing how to use it to best advantage to serve your vision. Some work better, produce better work, and are comfortable in a more restricted zone that they have mastered and moving out of that zone can be disruptive to their disadvantage. If it's not broken don't fix it. Others will relish the opportunity and challenge of the new, in this case sensor.
I agree that many find their personal style and can't understand why everyone doesn't shoot like that (if they did they would loose their individuality but they don't seem to see that, even running workshops that tend to produce mini me shooters).
This is at the heart of many of the threads here where some, sincerely, can't understand why anyone would want to shoot: CCD, film, MF etc etc and make it their mission to point out the error of their ways.

[ihv]

Canon is getting ready to pump up TS glass production!  
Eduardo

A comment from DPR:

"If PDAF works well with metabones adapters, Canon has officially become Sony's third party lens maker."

[Kolor-Pikker]

A comment from DPR:

"If PDAF works well with metabones adapters, Canon has officially become Sony's third party lens maker."

Ouch, with a scathing comment like that from a mainstream photography portal, Canon is not going to go well over this.

The only hold Canon has left right now is in the high-speed pro DSLR market with the 1DX, but the ice is getting thinner day by day.

[ciccio]

is getting very thinner to phase one too !!!!
untill sony give to them the full sensor cmos...
les carottes sont cuites !
best.

[Gel]

As a Canon 5D3 and 1Dx user this year I bought a 645z and a A7ii.

I'm losing my love for Canon, fast. Lot of loyalty but for the love of all that's holy:

Silent shutter
42mp
Huge dynamic range
5 axis stabilisation.

That's the big thing for me. Size, weight, lens options mean nothing as I love the Canon glass... but dammit I'm close to saying I'm all but done with Canon because I'm being forced to choose, I can't carry four bodies to every wedding.