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Author Topic: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?  (Read 20562 times)

billy

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Forgive me if this has been discussed elsewhere but a friend told me that the new paypal agreement would actually give paypal the rights to all of my photos that are on my website. I thought he was crazy, but found this article, can this really be true?

http://anonhq.com/paypal-intends-take-content-new-terms-service/
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jeffreybehr

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2015, 01:32:05 am »

How about doing your own reading and learning?  Here's the text of the apparently appropriate section of the new PP user agreement.  The full agreement to be effective 2015 July 01 is available here...
https://www.paypalobjects.com/webstatic/ua/pdf/US/ints/ua.pdf

"15.6 License Grant from Merchants to PayPal. Section 15.5 notwithstanding, if you are a Merchant using PayPal Merchant
services, you hereby grant us a worldwide, non-exclusive, transferable, sublicensable (through multiple tiers), and royalty-free right
to use and display publicly, during the term of this Agreement, your trademark(s) (including but not limited to registered and
unregistered trademarks, trade names, service marks, logos, domain names and other designations owned, licensed to or used by
you) for the purpose of (1) identifying you as a merchant that accepts a PayPal service as a payment form, and (2) any other use to
which you specifically consent."

So if you're a merchant using "PayPal Merchant services", you grant PP a license to use and display your trademarks ... "used by
you for the purpose of (1) identifying you as a merchant that accepts a PayPal service as a payment form, and (2) any other use to
which you specifically consent."

How is that taking your intellectual property and content?  I'd really like to know, because if this language grants PP a license to use my intellectual property without restriction or fees, then I'm closing my PP account.

How 'bout it, boys and girls?  READ the agreement and show me and billy.
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MarkM

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2015, 03:43:49 am »

Jeffrey, the article is referring to a section one paragraph above the one you quoted:

Quote
5.5 License Grant from You to PayPal; IP Warranties. Subject to section 15.6, when providing PayPal with content or posting content using PayPal Services, you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, transferable, and sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any and all copyright, publicity, trademarks, database rights and intellectual property rights you have in the content, in any media known now or in the future. Further, to the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, you waive your moral rights and promise not to assert such rights against PayPal, its sublicensees or its assignees. You represent and warrant that none of the following infringe any intellectual property or publicity right: your provision of content to PayPal, your posting of content using the PayPal Services, and PayPalís use of such content (including of works derived from it) in connection with the PayPal Services.Ē


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jeffreybehr

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2015, 04:03:31 am »

Jeffrey, the article is referring to a section one paragraph above the one you quoted:


Mark, I believe that section 15.5's "...providing PayPal with content or posting content using PayPal Services..." is NOT the same as selling intangible property as a PayPal merchant and especially is not the same as selling intangible property as an individual who is not a PayPal merchant.

Can some attorney enlighten us, pls?
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fdisilvestro

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2015, 04:08:07 am »

Quote
when providing PayPal with content or posting content using PayPal Services

As I understand, this applies to content you provide them or post using paypal services (e.g. your logo or an image in an invoice, etc) so you cannot then claim damages to paypal because they published it. It should not apply to the content in your site (photos, text, etc.)

Having said that, those terms and conditions are location-based, so every country where paypal has business with, may have different terms. In the case of Australia, the clause is different and I find it confusing

Quote
19.3 You grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable,
sublicensable right to exercise your copyright, publicity and database rights so we may
adequately provide our Services to you.

Full document here
https://www.paypalobjects.com/webstatic/ua/pdf/AU/ints/ua.pdf

fdisilvestro

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2015, 04:30:10 am »

I have checked the existing agreement (in effect until June 30) and those paragraphs have exactly the same wording, so nothing new here.

Current policy in the Australia Site:

Quote
19.3 You grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, sublicencable right to exercise your copyright, publicity and database rights so we may adequately provide our Services to you.

https://www.paypal.com/au/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#19_Our_intellectual_property

The same for US

Quote
15.5 License Grant from You to PayPal; IP Warranties. Subject to section 15.6, when providing PayPal with content or posting content using PayPal Services, you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, transferable, and sublicensable (through multiple tiers) right to exercise any and all copyright, publicity, trademarks, database rights and intellectual property rights you have in the content, in any media known now or in the future. Further, to the fullest extent permitted under applicable law, you waive your moral rights and promise not to assert such rights against PayPal, its sublicensees or its assignees. You represent and warrant that none of the following infringe any intellectual property or publicity right: your provision of content to PayPal, your posting of content using the PayPal Services, and PayPalís use of such content (including of works derived from it) in connection with the PayPal Services.Ē

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#15

jferrari

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2015, 08:08:59 am »

I hope Jeremy will weigh in on this subject. It could potentially be huge or benign, I'm not sure.
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billy

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2015, 12:46:37 am »

How about doing your own reading and learning?  Here's the text of the apparently appropriate section of the new PP user agreement.  The full agreement to be effective 2015 July 01 is available here...
https://www.paypalobjects.com/webstatic/ua/pdf/US/ints/ua.pdf

"15.6 License Grant from Merchants to PayPal. Section 15.5 notwithstanding, if you are a Merchant using PayPal Merchant
services, you hereby grant us a worldwide, non-exclusive, transferable, sublicensable (through multiple tiers), and royalty-free right
to use and display publicly, during the term of this Agreement, your trademark(s) (including but not limited to registered and
unregistered trademarks, trade names, service marks, logos, domain names and other designations owned, licensed to or used by
you) for the purpose of (1) identifying you as a merchant that accepts a PayPal service as a payment form, and (2) any other use to
which you specifically consent."

So if you're a merchant using "PayPal Merchant services", you grant PP a license to use and display your trademarks ... "used by
you for the purpose of (1) identifying you as a merchant that accepts a PayPal service as a payment form, and (2) any other use to
which you specifically consent."

How is that taking your intellectual property and content?  I'd really like to know, because if this language grants PP a license to use my intellectual property without restriction or fees, then I'm closing my PP account.

How 'bout it, boys and girls?  READ the agreement and show me and billy.

I was just asking for some advice. you are rude.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2015, 01:02:04 am by billy »
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jeffreybehr

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2015, 02:29:56 am »

I was just asking for some advice. you are rude.

No, you were asking us to do your work.  It's YOUR question; why not research it by finding and reading the agreement and searching for other discussions about it?

Rude, maybe; perhaps just frank.
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billy

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2015, 01:34:17 am »

No, you were asking us to do your work.  It's YOUR question; why not research it by finding and reading the agreement and searching for other discussions about it?

Rude, maybe; perhaps just frank.

I wish you we were in a pub together right now, I would ask you to step outside. The problem with the internet is people like you spout off without having any repercussions. If you do not have anything constructive to add to a thread just keep your mouth shut.
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jeffreybehr

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2015, 04:08:19 am »

I wish you we were in a pub together right now, I would ask you to step outside. The problem with the internet is people like you spout off without having any repercussions. If you do not have anything constructive to add to a thread just keep your mouth shut.

Oh my, control your temper, billy.  ONE problem with the internet is people like you who are too lazy to do their own research and then bitch when someone calls them on it.  If you have a question, do at least some research yourself; don't ask someone else to do it.

And I wouldn't be nearly so stupid enough to 'step outside' with you or anyone else.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2015, 01:45:01 pm »

I hope Jeremy will weigh in on this subject. It could potentially be huge or benign, I'm not sure.

I'm cautious about being seen to pontificate about this because it's really not my area of law, and of course I know nothing about any kind of US law; standard disclaimer applies, of course.

However, I think it's a storm in a teacup. As far as I can interpret the wording, which seems to be needlessly overlong, what it means is this.

15.5 gives PayPal a licence to use everything you post using their services. I can't see that this could possibly be read to include copyright vesting in stuff you have sold where the only connection to PayPal being that they facilitate the transfer of funds. I don't use PayPal myself, so I'm not sure what "content" they could be referring to. Do people who use PayPal have their own pages in PayPal's site, perhaps, with photos or logos displayed on it?

15.6 is a more limited agreement, allowing PayPal to produce material including merchant's trademarks during the term of the agreement. It doesn't seem unreasonable that if a merchant accepts payments mediated via PayPal, PayPal should be able to use the merchant's logo on their site; in fact, it's probably beneficial to the merchant, giving the user a reassurance of continuity from his site through PayPal's.

In other words, Francisco seems to me to be right.

Jeremy
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jferrari

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2015, 09:24:45 pm »

Thank you Jeremy for your time spent giving this a look-over. I, for one, value your opinion.    - Jim
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Gilgamesh

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2015, 04:51:04 am »

"How about doing your own reading and learning?  "

I too think you're bl££dy rude.

He came here asking for clarification, not your scorn and unnecessarily vindictive reply, it was a perfectly legitimate, honest question and you jumped down his throat, you unpleasant little man.

If you have nothing pleasant to say - say nothing.
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Ellis Vener

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2015, 11:22:54 am »


If you have nothing pleasant to say - say nothing.

My experience in life is that people who say only pleasant things  generally have nothing to say.  Also that it is far too easy when viewing the written word it is very easy to misconstrue the real meaning of a person's words.
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Jeremy Roussak

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Re: new Paypal Agreement takes your intellectual property and content?
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2015, 11:30:23 am »

"How about doing your own reading and learning?  "

I too think you're bl££dy rude.

Oh, how twee.

He came here asking for clarification, not your scorn and unnecessarily vindictive reply, it was a perfectly legitimate, honest question and you jumped down his throat, you unpleasant little man.

This thread has been quiescent for a month. What do you imagine this petulant, vituperative little rant contributes? Other than seeing your name in glory for the 20th time, of course.

If you have nothing pleasant to say - say nothing.

Perhaps you should change "pleasant" to "useful" and follow your own advice.

Jeremy
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