DCamProf - a new camera profiling tool

[AlterEgo]

Just speculating, maybe they've changed the formula on newer CCSG targets, having made the black patches brighter? That would reduce the glare problem and make the target easier to use.

but at the moment I can't check - unless somebody with both CCSG can do this, I simply do not have anybody around with the old CCSG (not even new and not even with passport... but plenty of guns though - appalachia).

[AlterEgo]

Here goes X-Rite support :

Dear D....,
 
In an effort to resolve your support Case, the following comment has been added.  Please review this comment, and respond as indicated.

Comment:


There are two essential things to keep in mind here.

The first one is that you can't compare LAB readings from different models of spectrophotometers and expect to see exact matches. Your i1PRO2 is the newest one of the ones you've indicated you own, and will be using the current XRGA calibration standard. So please use that device for your measurements.

The second point that is relevant is that the target measurements done in ProfileMaker were done with older formulations of the ColorChecker targets, and were also done with a different spectrophotometer than any of the ones you are testing with.

I hope that this helps to explain.

We would like you to help us continuously improve the support we provide. Click on this Survey Link to provide your input (less than 1 minute to complete).


Thank you, 


B.... W....

Technical Support Rep - Level 2

so... "the target measurements done in ProfileMaker were done with older formulations of the ColorChecker targets"

anybody with any spectrophotometer and both old (old as in www.imaging-resource.com test shots) and shiny new CC SG out there willing to test ?

[Iliah]

Since you already have their ear, can you please ask them where we can find the reference for the new formulation of Digital ColorChecker SG?
This one http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?ID=938&Action=Support&SupportID=5158 from 2012 indicates low Lab values for the target.

[AlterEgo]

Since you already have their ear, can you please ask them where we can find the reference for the new formulation of Digital ColorChecker SG?

already did and CSR did an evasive maneuver suggesting me ColorChecker Classic data ("...Yes, we do post color values for the ColorChecker Classic 24 patch target...")... so I even asked if X-Rite 'd be so kind as to suggest the official/semi-official range for black patches only... waiting

[AlterEgo]

This one http://xritephoto.com/ph_product_overview.aspx?ID=938&Action=Support&SupportID=5158 from 2012 indicates low Lab values for the target.

Iliah - but this is __exactly__ the data from Profile Maker - just converted from Spectral to LAB and rounded... but I will use this in my next move (as it has the date = 2012 - so when did they allegedly change the formulation then ?).

[Iliah]

Iliah - but this is __exactly__ the data from Profile Maker - just converted from Spectral to LAB and rounded... but I will use this in my next move (as it has the date = 2012 - so when did they allegedly change the formulation then ?).

Yes, that data is the same as in PM5, I know that. I do not know of SG formulation ever being changed. XRGA was introduced in 2010, before the page with the link to the reference was edited. You have Spectrolino which is not XRGA-enabled by default (ColorPort 2.x may add an option to account for XRGA w/Spectrolino spectral measurements), and the measurements should conform to pre-XRGA era. I do not know of any newer official or semi-official references, but I know out-of-spec batches of targets may happen. In some regards it may be even beneficial to have higher black values (less flare), and now that you have Spectrolino and know to measure the targets in the dark environment you may take advantage of that.

[AlterEgo]

e2:e4

....On the back of your Digital Color SG there will be a date with the Edition month and year. What is your Edition information on this target...

January 2014 Edition

waiting for the next move

[AlterEgo]

ColorPort 2.x may add an option to account for XRGA w/Spectrolino spectral measurements

I never managed to get it working on my Windows 8.1 x 64.... i1pc.bin crashes

[Iliah]

I keep VMs Windows XP64 and Windows 7.

[AlterEgo]

I keep VMs Windows XP64 and Windows 7.

argyll does not use XRGA corrections right ? so if one uses argyll spotread/chartread for example then the reported (by the said utilities) data from old gear and new gear will be consistent - correct ?

[Iliah]

argyll does not use XRGA corrections right ? so if one uses argyll spotread/chartread for example then the reported (by the said utilities) data from old gear and new gear will be consistent - correct ?

As far as I know i1Pro XRGA support is in the driver, so it may depend on what driver is in use. I guess Graeme is the person to ask

[GWGill]

PS: what was the point to use D65 filter with Spectrolino to measure the target for him ?

Many industrial measurements standardize on D65 and the 10 degree observer. While you can compute this using reflectance data, you won't get quite the same results when there is fluorescence present, whereas the D65 filter will gives a more accurate result.
[ Interestingly one of my Spectrolino's came with a UV filter. I guess it was an option, since it isn't mentioned in the manual, nor did one come with the other Spectrolino I was given. ]

[GWGill]

argyll does not use XRGA corrections right ? so if one uses argyll spotread/chartread for example then the reported (by the said utilities) data from old gear and new gear will be consistent - correct ?

Yes, ArgyllCMS doesn't currently support XRGA conversion (X-Rite have never publicly revealed what that is, which is pretty poor service to their customers in my view), so you get whatever is native from the device. I believe in the case of the i1pro2, that is XRGA. My current understanding though, is that XRGA involved some massaging of the wavelength calibration and spectral reference values, so it is unlikely to have any significant  effect on the L* value.

[AlterEgo]

I believe in the case of the i1pro2, that is XRGA.

BabelColor Patchtool though gives an option to select one of 2 modes of operation for i1pro2 (XRGA = M0/M1/M2 and non-XRGA = M0 only) - so either the data comes non corrected from hardware to PC/MAC side software or there is a way to tell the device to switch back to non XRGA mode...

[GWGill]

BabelColor Patchtool though gives an option to select one of 2 modes of operation for i1pro2 (XRGA = M0/M1/M2 and non-XRGA = M0 only) - so either the data comes non corrected from hardware to PC/MAC side software or there is a way to tell the device to switch back to non XRGA mode...

There is a dll that comes with the X-Rite driver & other programs that does is used for the conversions to/from XRGA.

[AlterEgo]

I keep VMs Windows XP64 and Windows 7.

Iliah how do you manager to get the instrument connected in a virtual machine ?

[Iliah]

Iliah how do you manager to get the instrument connected in a virtual machine ?

That probably depends on the VM you are using. For Fusion (VMWare) it is automatic, when an instrument is plugged in, it pops up with a question 'what to do' - to connect to host or to VM. This question can be switched off, too, if one of those two actions is set as default in menu item "Virtual Machine" -> USB and Bluetooth -> Advanced USB options. I also set USB 2.0 there for the guest.

[AlterEgo]

That probably depends on the VM you are using. For Fusion (VMWare) it is automatic, when an instrument is plugged in, it pops up with a question 'what to do' - to connect to host or to VM. This question can be switched off, too, if one of those two actions is set as default in menu item "Virtual Machine" -> USB and Bluetooth -> Advanced USB options. I also set USB 2.0 there for the guest.

may be USB settings were the issue, I put USB 1.1 compatibility now in VMWare and can connect to i1pro2... however with Spectrolino the ColorPort v2.0.5 software only shows SpectroScan as an option - which is Spectrolino with an automated measuring table, which I don't have... does it work with Spectrolino alone ?

[Iliah]

may be USB settings were the issue, I put USB 1.1 compatibility now in VMWare and can connect to i1pro2... however with Spectrolino the ColorPort v2.0.5 software only shows SpectroScan as an option - which is Spectrolino with an automated measuring table, which I don't have... does it work with Spectrolino alone ?

I tried and - no, it does not work for me, sorry. Only with Spectroscan, seems only because of the automatic positioning on the calibration tile. All the rest I was able to do manually.

[AlterEgo]

I tried and - no, it does not work for me, sorry. Only with Spectroscan, seems only because of the automatic positioning on the calibration tile. All the rest I was able to do manually.

OK, N/A... on the other subject - I compared a new black velvet sample measuring with i1pro2 and spectrolino : i1pro2 gives L* = ~2.9-~4.0 on various spots and spectrolino ~2.9-~3.5 on various spots... so I guess if both of them do measure noticeably lighter black patches on SG and their data is similar then so it is... new targets do have the black patches lighter... I did not hear back from X-Rite so far... so will be trying to remind them again, albeit w/o big hope.