H4D: tethered connection lost

[evgeny]

Thanks everyone for comments in the "lens error" topic.
Here is another question about H4D.

I do as following to shoot tethered:
1. Connect FireWire cable provided with the camera to digital back and Macbook Pro (2009 aluminum, Rel5.2).
2. Run Phocus.
3. Phocus not always able to connect to the camera. All controls in the Camera tab in Phocus are disabled. Same time the digital back show a message that Phocus will control the camera.

One could say, it's a cable (which is new) or a power from Mackbook Pro. But I had no such a problem with latest software for Sinar and Leaf backs connected to the same Mackbook Pro computer.

Please advice.

Thanks
EVgeny

[design_freak]

Thanks everyone for comments in the "lens error" topic.
Here is another question about H4D.

I do as following to shoot tethered:
1. Connect FireWire cable provided with the camera to digital back and Macbook Pro (2009 aluminum, Rel5.2).
2. Run Phocus.
3. Phocus not always able to connect to the camera. All controls in the Camera tab in Phocus are disabled. Same time the digital back show a message that Phocus will control the camera.

One could say, it's a cable (which is new) or a power from Mackbook Pro. But I had no such a problem with latest software for Sinar and Leaf backs connected to the same Mackbook Pro computer.

Please advice.

Thanks
EVgeny

Difficult subject ;-)

[evgeny]

Sounds like tethered connection is not properly handled in Phocus, yet.

[Dustbak]

It sounds as if there are more issues at play here. I am kind of leaning towards an issue between the communication between the body and the back. I would suggest going back to your dealer and have him take care of this together with the lens issue.

I have issues tethering with my CF39MS but no more with my H4D60.

[nik]

Hello EVgeny,

I recently used an H3D-50 and H4D-60 on a shoot, I had weird issues with the H4D camera and Capture station. Here's what I did;

- Tried the H4D and same cable on another Mac with a new install of Phocus (it worked)
- Re-installed Phocus on the problem Mac. Still did not work.
- Un-installed Phocus from the problem Mac (delete the Application, but also delete the "/Users/{yourusername}/Library/Application Support/Phocus" folder
- Restart the Mac.
- Re-install Phocus.
- Try again

If you are having the same issue with Phocus on another Mac you will have to try;

- Try reversing the cable. ie, plug the end of the cable you usually plug into the camera - into your Mac - and the other end into the camera. A snug fitting firewire cable is best for the Mac firewire port
- Another firewire Cable (try a shorter one, 3 or 6 ft)
- If the cable is 14ft, try a firewire repeater to boost the signal btwn camera and mac, I have one of these - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036S1XTU
- Make sure your mac is up to date and patched. What version of OSX are you running?
- Clean the electrical contacts of the camera (back, lens mount, etc) (some people use an eraser)

Best,

Nik

[David Grover / Capture One]

Hi Evgeny, Nik and all!

It is really important to check that the H4D is running on the most recent firmware revision.

Easily checked by pressing and holding the LCD backlight / battery check button.

Refer to Hasselblad.com downloads section and make sure you have the latest version for your model.

Why?  We made some changes a while ago to the Firewire protocol after Apple made some discreet(!) changes to their Firewire controllers in new(er) Macs.

Beyond that, are you using a canle over 4.5m?  If so you will most likely need a powered repeater.  Similair advice to Nik. 

David

[John.Williams]

Evgeny,

I have also learned do's and don'ts shooting tethered that result in lost connections - (assuming you are @ the latest version of software and firmware least it is a known issue)

The cable quality is paramount - it's duty is to transmit the electrical signals properly without issue; a cable that has been run over by a cart doesn't look damaged, but it will produce erratic results forcing you to grow more grey hair by losing connection of the data stream to the software. Solution: have extra cable that is not in production (or kept in the bag away from production) as a backup. Treat them well - they will perform consistently.

No movement. That means no swinging cable. The firewire port on the computer is not as deep as the port on the camera, so just a little wiggle can separate the cable pins from the connector pins and voila! Data stream interruption = loss of connectivity = software waiting to hear last transmission = !#$@#!

A little gaffer's tape is a low-tech way to keep that cable from moving around. Or whatever method you employ to maintain a solid, no-movement connection to the computer.

Keep in mind the IEEE specification for Firewire is 5 meters. Anything longer and you are "out-of-spec" and YMMV.

Hope you find this helpful and have a great tethered shoot - with Live Video and 100% zoom focusing, -John

[evgeny]

Hi all,
thank you for all replies.

Nik, I use the cable supplied with the camera. No repeater is needed.
I remember an old release of Sinar CaptureShop had similar problems with tethered connection to Sinar digital backs. Sinar implemented necessary patches in their software to run properly on newer Mac OS. I believe Hasselblad has a similar issues, and need to test and fix the Phocus.

David, the camera come with the latest firmware, and then, when I had issues with tethered connection and lens error (see my another topic), I re-installed the firmware again in camera body and in digital back via Phocus.

John, you are right, the firewire port on the computer is not as deep as it should be.
I have another FireWire cable with metal (!) connectors on both ends that come with Western Digital Studio RAID disks. Unfortunately it's too short 6'. This cable fits very well in the firewire port on the computer and can't move at all! Hasselblad needs to supply such quality cables, not cheap cables with plastic ends. This may help to reduce the number of customer calls regarding FireWire issues.

I sent detailed information to Hasselblad two days ago. Waiting for their reply.

Evgeny

[evgeny]

I run Phocus on Macbook Pro under Lion. Hasselblad asked me to check, if problem persists also under Snow Leopard.
So, I downloaded Phocus from web site, and installed on my Mac Mini with Snow Leopard.
I unpacked the H4D camera, attached cables, and tested both Phocus installations under both Lion and Snow.

The simple answer is - the cable:
1. Phocus works the same under both Lion and Snow Leopard.
2. Cables with plastic ends supplied by Hasselblad may lost electrical contacts with FireWire port on Mac computer. I also tried a cable with metal connectors, which tightly fit the FireWire port in computer and camera, and works much-much better. Unfortunately my cable with metal connectors is only 3' long, it's too short.
3. If connection is lost: sometimes the camera will allow to release the shutter. Pictures will not be saved to computer and not appear in the Phocus window. Check the computer display!
4. If connection is lost: usually the camera will not release the shutter. Reverse the cable. Connector on the second side of the cable may better fit (or may not) the FireWire port on Mac.
5. If connection is lost: sometimes a complete restart of the camera (and Phocus, if problem persists) is necessary to make it all work together again.
6. If the problem persists, it's rather bad plastic connectors on the cable. Where can I buy a 9' FireWire 800 cables with metal ends???

[Dustbak]

Problem with most of the longer quality cables is that they are too thick, you can moore your boat with them. Another approach is getting a FW800 repeater and a longer cable. Use the short thin quality cable between the repeater and the camera body.

[design_freak]

Try this:
http://www.unibrain.com
It's strong good quality cables

[John.Williams]

Evgeny,

Now that you have isolated the issue, life gets better! At least for the next 5 mins anyway...

David Grover made a great recommendation last year regarding Lindy cables; they have metal on both ends but the version on the website looks different than the solid black ones we purchased (sold out.)

Like Dustbak stated, the thicker, shielded cables are hearty, but you have to shave down the connector in order to fit into the Hasselblad port - not exactly a perfect solution, but certainly a tight fit.

John

[nik]

EVgeny,

I'm glad you're getting close to solving your problem. You may want to try getting a really short (6 inch) 'pigtail' firewire extension cable (one end male, the other female) and always keep it plugged into your mac. (like this one - http://www.usbfirewire.com/firewire8001394b.html) That way you don't have to keep plugging / unplugging the firewire cable from your mac firewire port and possibly damaging it through wear and tear. All you have to do then is plug your longer cable into the pigtail. When the port on the pigtail goes bad, it's easily replaced. I also do this with USB (but on the camera side, as I've seen too many usb ports on 35mm cameras get damaged due to people tripping on the long cable)

They don't do metal specific ends like you want for fw800, but www.usbfirewire.com is where I buy all my cables, their service is very good. They gold plate all their cable ends for a better connection.

Lastly, if your ethernet port and firewire port are next to each other, you can cut an ethernet cable down to about 3 inches, zip tie it (in parallel) to the end of your firewire cable and plug them both in to your mac. The ethernet cable connector has a locking mechanism that will help keep your firewire cable in place.

I will check out unibrain too, that's a new one for me.

All the Best,

Nik

 Where can I buy a 9' FireWire 800 cables with metal ends???

[evgeny]

The Unibrain are interesting cables. They are wider than regular FireWire cables due to built-in screw lock connectors on each side. When plugged, there is no space to connect other cables to Ethernet and the left USB port on Macbook Pro (2009).

Lindy 10m FireWire 800 Active Extension Cable is also interesting. I can plug its plastic end to the camera, and the other end to my short FireWire cable with true metal connectors on each end. The other metal end of the short cable will go to Macbook Pro. I think it may work. I will order one, if they offer international shipping.

usbfirewire cables have plastic ends, and such will move in FireWire port and lose connection with the camera. I don't care about gold plates, it's just a marketing

[Kitty]

+1 for Unibrain firewire cable. Last longer than any cable I have used.

[robert zimmerman]

The reason you're not having problems with the new cable is probably because it is only 3 meters long.
As david said: "Beyond that, are you using a canle over 4.5m?  If so you will most likely need a powered repeater."
I always had issues with tethered shooting with my Hasselblad, and the only way I could get a half way stable connection was with a powered repeater.
It may be different for different Hassy backs (40, 50 or 60), and it may be different from firmware to firmware...and that was my biggest beef with Hassy, I just had no faith in tethered shooting.

I run Phocus on Macbook Pro under Lion. Hasselblad asked me to check, if problem persists also under Snow Leopard.
So, I downloaded Phocus from web site, and installed on my Mac Mini with Snow Leopard.
I unpacked the H4D camera, attached cables, and tested both Phocus installations under both Lion and Snow.

The simple answer is - the cable:
1. Phocus works the same under both Lion and Snow Leopard.
2. Cables with plastic ends supplied by Hasselblad may lost electrical contacts with FireWire port on Mac computer. I also tried a cable with metal connectors, which tightly fit the FireWire port in computer and camera, and works much-much better. Unfortunately my cable with metal connectors is only 3' long, it's too short.
3. If connection is lost: sometimes the camera will allow to release the shutter. Pictures will not be saved to computer and not appear in the Phocus window. Check the computer display!
4. If connection is lost: usually the camera will not release the shutter. Reverse the cable. Connector on the second side of the cable may better fit (or may not) the FireWire port on Mac.
5. If connection is lost: sometimes a complete restart of the camera (and Phocus, if problem persists) is necessary to make it all work together again.
6. If the problem persists, it's rather bad plastic connectors on the cable. Where can I buy a 9' FireWire 800 cables with metal ends???

[design_freak]

Try this:
http://www.unibrain.com
It's strong good quality cables

Other hight quallity cables:

The best I have ever had
http://www.northwire.com/directMVCOver.php


http://www.granitedigital.com/firewire1394bdiagnosticcables.aspx ( Do not buy a 10m cable, there are problems even with the repeater. But the standard 4.5 m are very resistant)

I know what I write, I spent a thousand on the cables per year. These cables with built-in repeater praised by colleague David, are not very durable. But how do they work, there is no problem with them. Unfortunately, quickly twist as the cable used is not the best quality.


I wish you a pleasant shooting, so you can enjoy shooting, not to fight with the hardware.

[design_freak]

A and one more thing
Buy a tetherlock, you'll save about a thousand euros for the exchange of firewire socket on the camera ... This is not ideal because you can not use when your camera is  on a tripod. But... for one thousand you can buy this: http://www.tandbergdata.com/emea/index.cfm/products/removable-disk/rdx-quikstor/

Unfortunately, someone very clever designed the placement of the socket ... I myself have designed a suitable device, which hit the market soon

http://tetherlock.com/

[evgeny]

Hi. TetherLock looks interesting.
The Buy Online doesn't work in northwire, and granitedigital won't open

[design_freak]

Hi. TetherLock looks interesting.
The Buy Online doesn't work in northwire, and granitedigital won't open

that is the problem