Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Kyle Jackson on October 27, 2025, 10:03:38 am
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Hey all, what lighting are you using in your workspaces for reviewing your prints and comparing to soft-proofs? The specific bulbs/products I mean, particularly any LED bulbs that are "good enough" for basic print review. I'm interested people's experiences with them.
I've seen some mentioned over in the Colour Management forum (NorthLux / Waveform Lighting for one).
Thanks!
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I'm using bulbs with SunLike Vrgb emitters
https://tinyurl.com/3bz7852x
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Several years ago we replaced all our drop ceiling lights with K5000 flat panel LED's.
Probably not ideal but they do work and certainly much better than the fluorescents of old.
We have a Calibrate GrafiLite for smaller print viewing. A nice desktop unit that takes up very little space.
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I'm using bulbs with SunLike Vrgb emitters
https://tinyurl.com/3bz7852x
How do you like them? How's the flicker?
Found some test results that pointed me to these Yuji NormLite bulbs:
https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/arts-graphics-lighting/products/normlite-cri-98-d50-5000k-standard-illuminant-led-bulb-iso3664-2000-for-art-studio
The spectrum is less spikey than the NorthLux / Waveform, and appears very similar to those SunLikes (might be the same emitter). Not cheap tho.
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We have a Calibrate GrafiLite for smaller print viewing. A nice desktop unit that takes up very little space.
I forgot about these lamps, I remember seeing them mentioned here in the past. I'm looking at a larger space tho. It's both my photo printing space and my art creation space (plus print repro of the latter). For now I just have the usual "2 lamps at 45-degrees setup" and just looking for better bulbs. Later I might add something overhead if needed.
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How do you like them? How's the flicker?
Found some test results that pointed me to these Yuji NormLite bulbs:
https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/arts-graphics-lighting/products/normlite-cri-98-d50-5000k-standard-illuminant-led-bulb-iso3664-2000-for-art-studio
The spectrum is less spikey than the NorthLux / Waveform, and appears very similar to those SunLikes (might be the same emitter). Not cheap tho.
Vrgb LED emitters (SunLike Toshiba TRI-R technology) are as good as it gets. The one from link are also cheap, and I couldn't detect any measurable flickering using JETI Specbos and 240Hz camera. Yuji are certainly good too (also Vrgb). GrafiLite are just Bgr LED like most video lamps, so they're noticeably worse than Vrgb - spikes in Bgr spectra makes it visually warmer than CCT indicates, and less neutral for B&W prints (usually greenish)
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Well at the end of the day it is a a question about where and to whom you are going to show your prints. I tend to print mostly at night and thus look at the finished print under my normal LED domestic lights. Looks good? Ok. Then tomorrow I will at it under bright sunlight. Still looks good then OK. But doesn't look good then what to do? Re-edit or what?
Then you have an exhibition in a gallery over which you have no control over what the colour temperature of the illumination is or probably in which direction it is going. So your prints that looked great in your studio now don't. What to do?
Probably of all the colour photographers I can think of William Eggleston was or is the most fastidious printer. His Red Ceiling photograph is one that he advocates as the best dye transfer he has ever seen and stated that he has never seen it reproduced satisfactorily. I have seen an original which presumably was passed by him in 3 different environments. Now I can't remember what the lighting was or what the difference was but I do remember seeing one print and thinking that it wasn't quite how I remembered it from the last time I saw it.
So at the end of the unless you can completely control the environment that your prints will be seen then I suggest you just gauge your prints as you like them. If you spend a lot of time and money on expensive viewing booths and get things to our satisfaction then there is no guarantee that the next person who sees your print will see anything like you saw under you viewing booth.
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I've been replacing most of my bulbs with PHILIPS LED 100W A19 4-Pack Ultra Definition Daylight (5000K) (Amazon product B0CX7K42CQ). They're surprisingly good and look completely like traditional frosted glass bulbs. They dim well and I've been been able to use them as the modeling light in my Elinchrom strobes (they dim but not as exact same ratio as the strobe). waveformlighting.com has more expensive "calibrated" bulbs that work well but don't look like traditional bulbs and don't dim. I still have a stock of Solux halogen lamps I bought when they went of of business. Have a few on a track in the room with my printer if I want to be really picky. I bought them for $7 and now they're selling for $40 on ebay :-P
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I found this interesting test database:
https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database
It's easy to sort by colour temp and then can quickly spot good candidates based on flicker risk, desirable spectrum, and spikiness (ASD).
In the 5000K range the Yuji NormLite seems to have the lead. SunLike isn't listed specifically, altho you can see a number of similar vrgb spectrums in the list, including the Yuji. But there seems to be a wide range of flicker across the products. I guess the bulb makers use different LED driver designs. Norb has high flicker.
The NorthLux / Waveform bulbs seems to be rgb only with that big blue spike. More test results on those here: https://budgetlightforum.com/t/review-waveform-lighting-a19-centric-home-daylight-e27-bulbs-2700k-4000k-5000k/55829
Among the Philips Ultra Def options only 1 is flicker-free, the 800-lumen size ~60W replacement (has both frosted and clear versions). But it has curious red spikes giving high ASD. Not sure what LED they're using there, only the Philips bulbs exhibit that. But they're available locally and cheap so I can easily try them out.
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Well at the end of the day it is a a question about where and to whom you are going to show your prints. I tend to print mostly at night and thus look at the finished print under my normal LED domestic lights. Looks good? Ok. Then tomorrow I will at it under bright sunlight. Still looks good then OK. But doesn't look good then what to do? Re-edit or what?
Then you have an exhibition in a gallery over which you have no control over what the colour temperature of the illumination is or probably in which direction it is going. So your prints that looked great in your studio now don't. What to do?
Probably of all the colour photographers I can think of William Eggleston was or is the most fastidious printer. His Red Ceiling photograph is one that he advocates as the best dye transfer he has ever seen and stated that he has never seen it reproduced satisfactorily. I have seen an original which presumably was passed by him in 3 different environments. Now I can't remember what the lighting was or what the difference was but I do remember seeing one print and thinking that it wasn't quite how I remembered it from the last time I saw it.
So at the end of the unless you can completely control the environment that your prints will be seen then I suggest you just gauge your prints as you like them. If you spend a lot of time and money on expensive viewing booths and get things to our satisfaction then there is no guarantee that the next person who sees your print will see anything like you saw under you viewing booth.
Right, so you kinda went way out in left field there... I understand what you're getting at but it's not really applicable for me and the topic here. And tbh it gives a "why bother doing anything" vibe which I don't support in this case (and I think I'm not alone there). If soft-proofing or lighting for artist workspaces isn't your thing, that's cool, we all have preferences.
I like to use natural daylight too but don't always have that luxury in my location. Predictable lighting makes it easier for me to evaluate my prints consistently or spot if one of my colour channels is acting up again, and similarly for selecting and blending colours in my artist workspace. I mean it's a pretty common thing to do. So you suggested "gauging stuff as I like", and this would be it.
So back to bulbs lol... 8)
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Vrgb LED emitters (SunLike Toshiba TRI-R technology) are as good as it gets. The one from link are also cheap, and I couldn't detect any measurable flickering using JETI Specbos and 240Hz camera. Yuji are certainly good too (also Vrgb). GrafiLite are just Bgr LED like most video lamps, so they're noticeably worse than Vrgb - spikes in Bgr spectra makes it visually warmer than CCT indicates, and less neutral for B&W prints (usually greenish)
Hey I just googled the JETI Specbos..., it can make spectral SPD plots for a light? Did you make any for those SunLike bulbs from AliExpress? Would be great to see that.
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Hey I just googled the JETI Specbos..., it can make spectral SPD plots for a light? Did you make any for those SunLike bulbs from AliExpress? Would be great to see that.
sure thing ;)
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sure thing ;)
Thank you!! And you included my old friend TLCI too, that's awesome! :)
These are really helpful because of course it's difficult to know if a seller is selling the real product, or if a brand has substituted different components than they advertise (Sylvania does that).
Edit: Unfortunately that AliExpress link can only buy 1 bulb (says max 1 per shopper) :o
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Thank you!! And you included my old friend TLCI too, that's awesome! :)
These are really helpful because of course it's difficult to know if a seller is selling the real product, or if a brand has substituted different components than they advertise (Sylvania does that).
Edit: Unfortunately that AliExpress link can only buy 1 bulb (says max 1 per shopper) :o
Apparently they changed it for some reason, Last time I had ordered 9pcs without a problem...
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Apparently they changed it for some reason, Last time I had ordered 9pcs without a problem...
Maybe they ran out. When I add to cart it shows "only 1 left". I'll check again later...
I'm trying out the Philips Ultra Definition 800 lumen (~"60W" size) now since they were available at a local store. It's the frosted "daylight" 5000K one.
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I have always followed John Paul Caponigro’s advice:
"Next, consider the color temperature of light – measured in Kelvin degrees. While 5000K is the industry standard (most viewing boxes and printer profiles are built for the 5000 K standard), in real world situations very few people view printed color under 5000K light. More typically, prints are viewed in galleries and museums in some form of halogen (3300K – 3800K) or in homes under tungsten (2800K) with a mix of daylight which varies with time of day, weather, and season. Viewing light for the end user is often highly variable. So, what do you do? Make prints for a specific lighting condition if practical. Otherwise, standardize on a viewing light temperature that can be least adversely affected in as many real world situations as possible. More people prefer the taste of 3600K than any other light temperature.”
https://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/blog/6941/controlling-your-environment/
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I have always followed John Paul Caponigro’s advice:
"Next, consider the color temperature of light – measured in Kelvin degrees. While 5000K is the industry standard (most viewing boxes and printer profiles are built for the 5000 K standard), in real world situations very few people view printed color under 5000K light. More typically, prints are viewed in galleries and museums in some form of halogen (3300K – 3800K) or in homes under tungsten (2800K) with a mix of daylight which varies with time of day, weather, and season. Viewing light for the end user is often highly variable. So, what do you do? Make prints for a specific lighting condition if practical. Otherwise, standardize on a viewing light temperature that can be least adversely affected in as many real world situations as possible. More people prefer the taste of 3600K than any other light temperature.”
https://www.johnpaulcaponigro.com/blog/6941/controlling-your-environment/
And here's my advice:
1) The approx. CCT of daylight at homes is 5000K, and ICC profiles are calculated using D50 standard illuminant.
2) A print under 5000K daylight (or Vrgb light) gives a reasonably good match with D65 calibrated monitor, as narrow-band lights (LCD/OLED) tend to look warmer than same CCT wide-band spectra lights (daylight/Vrgb)
3) Prints viewed in museums and at homes in the evenings under artificial lightning are usually exposed in dim conditions, when the perception of CCT changes in accordance to Kruithof curve - due to the fact that as illuminance decreases, human sensitivity to blue light increases (Purkinje effect). That's why "people prefer the taste of 3600K blah, blah, blah"
4) Tu sum it up - a print under 5000K gives a reasonably good match with a D65 display/smartphone/tablet/tv, print under daylight, and print under dim, warm, artificial light, so it statistically matches (more or less) the most likely viewing conditions.
5) All above mentioned doesn't really matter that much, as our chromatic adaptation will (more or less) neutralize the influence of CCT in ~30 seconds - a 5000K wide-band light is only convenient when we do a direct screen to print comparison, plus it distorts colors of the print the least
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My set up, pictured below....
6x 32w D50 'Graphiclite' fluorescent tubes from GTI, diffused through a quarter-stop lighting diffusion screen
Works pretty well for me, there is definitely some light fall-off towards the edge of the viewing area, but not bad overall for a relatively inexpensive home-made system
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2) A print under 5000K daylight (or Vrgb light) gives a reasonably good match with D65 calibrated monitor, as narrow-band lights (LCD/OLED) tend to look warmer than same CCT wide-band spectra lights (daylight/Vrgb)
...
4) Tu sum it up - a print under 5000K gives a reasonably good match with a D65 display/smartphone/tablet/tv, print under daylight, and print under dim, warm, artificial light, so it statistically matches (more or less) the most likely viewing conditions.
This is the advice I follow too. Soft-proof will never be perfect but at least this way it's practical and consistent.
The Philips bulbs I bought yesterday are already an improvement over the spikey blue LEDs I had before. Skin tones aren't as messed up and soft-proof is easier (so it's more like when I use natural daylight). They're also easier on my eyes, but whether that is the reduced blue spike or a lower intensity, I don't know.
Their spectrum (attached) obviously isn't as good as Vrgb but this is a big improvement until I'm able to try some of those (and very affordable too!). (Screenshot nicked from: https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database)
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My set up, pictured below....
6x 32w D50 'Graphiclite' fluorescent tubes from GTI, diffused through a quarter-stop lighting diffusion screen
Works pretty well for me, there is definitely some light fall-off towards the edge of the viewing area, but not bad overall for a relatively inexpensive home-made system
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That room is bigger than my home haha! :D I used to have space like this but now it's just 2 desklamps on a table lol
Ok to be fair I could do something similar on smaller scale, but for now it's lamps and bulbs. If I stay in this location long enough I might put some overhead strip lighting units up later. Sort of like the Northlux / Waveform 2- and 4-foot light strips (but not necessarily that product).
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8 switchable banks of Yuji 5' ISO3664:2000 leds.
I really should tidy the print room!
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8 switchable banks of Yuji 5' ISO3664:2000 leds.
I really should tidy the print room!
"Accurate rendering of real life(tm)." I even see LuLa on the screen lol ;D
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Vrgb LED emitters (SunLike Toshiba TRI-R technology) are as good as it gets. The one from link are also cheap, and I couldn't detect any measurable flickering using JETI Specbos and 240Hz camera. Yuji are certainly good too (also Vrgb). GrafiLite are just Bgr LED like most video lamps, so they're noticeably worse than Vrgb - spikes in Bgr spectra makes it visually warmer than CCT indicates, and less neutral for B&W prints (usually greenish)
I think I found a led strip with it. 5 meter, 19W/m, 24V, 4000K (other available) and 229,99 euro's :
led strip (https://www.ledrise.eu/led-strips-modules/led-strips/lumiflex700-pro-toshiba-ssc-led-strip-sunlike-cri97-neutral-white-4000k-8620lm-24v-140-leds-m-5m-roll-1724lm-m-and-192w-m-sku-33732.html.html)
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Hi
Just found some cheap ligth's on amazon.de (€19,99 for 6) : DiCUNO E27 LED Lampe 9W, Kaltweiß 5000K, ersetzt 60W Glühbirne, 806lm, CRI 98 ProOE Serie
reviews write that's more CRI 96 but with a good R9 value (R9= deep reds)
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Hi
Just found some cheap ligth's on amazon.de (€19,99 for 6) : DiCUNO E27 LED Lampe 9W, Kaltweiß 5000K, ersetzt 60W Glühbirne, 806lm, CRI 98 ProOE Serie
reviews write that's more CRI 96 but with a good R9 value (R9= deep reds)
My local electrical supplier (with branches across southern England) sells low profile strip leds for surface mounting. The range from 1ft to 5ft and all are 10W/ft and 120 lumens per Watt, so range from 1200 to 6000 lumens. They are switchable 3000K/4000K/6500K. Price ranges from £7.56 for 1ft to £18.96 for 5ft inc tax. Since this is the UK, they operate at 220-240V.
Jonathan
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Should have written in my previous email that these strip LEDs have a CRI of 80.
Jonathan
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A high CRI is a decent gauge of how well a light will perform in your home, but not such a great indicator of how well it will work for photography and proofing. Both a Solux 48 and a "full spectrum" tube from Home Depot may have a CRI of 97. I can guarantee you the Home Depot bulb has a giant mercury spike and some spectral dead spots.
A better metric is called CQS (15 very colorful patches). That doesn't tell us about the spectrum, which is even a better way to evaluate the illuminant.
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A high CRI is a decent gauge of how well a light will perform in your home, but not such a great indicator of how well it will work for photography and proofing. Both a Solux 48 and a "full spectrum" tube from Home Depot may have a CRI of 97. I can guarantee you the Home Depot bulb has a giant mercury spike and some spectral dead spots.
A better metric is called CQS (15 very colorful patches). That doesn't tell us about the spectrum, which is even a better way to evaluate the illuminant.
Andrew
In the examples that i gave there where quite flat spectra by the supplier and inside reviews. Both also gave high R9 values, which is quite often lacking in LED's. Are they perfect? Probably not, but LED's are getting better and it's useful to point to cheap available good LED's.
Alain
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Yeah at times it feels like drowning in sea of colour rendering "standards" (TLCI, TM-30, SSI...), but I agree the one constant is CRI is always the lowest weight for me. Unfortunately it's also the most prolific in product claims, particularly mass-market products.
That's why independent measurements (non CRI) are so helpful for evaluating how well a particular product might suit our needs/wants. Not easy to find, but I'm certainly finding a lot more data now (and promising products) than I ever did over a decade ago.
Navigating the globally-fragmented and sometimes sketchy niche market seems the main challenge right now. Like I can't even buy the bulbs from the AliExpress link @Czornyj posted above -- can't add more than 1 to cart, and message system to the vendor is broken, no idea why. Just one example, and maybe why some go the DIY route of sourcing their own LED chips and drivers to make their own fixtures. For me I can get the Yujis readily it seems, and I found the Philips Ultra Def in local retail to fill the gap for now (albeit somewhat spikey in reds).
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Like I can't even buy the bulbs from the AliExpress link @Czornyj posted above -- can't add more than 1 to cart, and message system to the vendor is broken, no idea why. Just one example, and maybe why some go the DIY route of sourcing their own LED chips and drivers to make their own fixtures. For me I can get the Yujis readily it seems, and I found the Philips Ultra Def in local retail to fill the gap for now (albeit somewhat spikey in reds).
why not get the "Norb" bulbs we were talking about in the other thread in the Color Management forum? they're also clearly using the sunlike emitters, and they're actually cheaper per unit ($20) than the aliexpress ones: https://www.amazon.com/Full-Spectrum-Performance-Near-Perfect-Rendering-Technology/dp/B07T6JB259?th=1
also it seems like waveform and yuji both have products with violet phosphors/emitters at this point so they're either also using the same sunlike chips or they've figured it out some other way. I had one bad experience with a company that had some great fluorescent replacement 5000k bulbs with a really nice coverage of the spectrum when I tested one box, but then I ordered 4 more boxes (I think 48 more bulbs) and they all were totally different than the first box with a much worse "cyan gap" even though they have identical model numbers etc. I'd trust yuji or waveform to have consistent product at this point if you'll be ordering more later on....
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why not get the "Norb" bulbs we were talking about in the other thread in the Color Management forum? they're also clearly using the sunlike emitters, and they're actually cheaper per unit ($20) than the aliexpress ones: https://www.amazon.com/Full-Spectrum-Performance-Near-Perfect-Rendering-Technology/dp/B07T6JB259?th=1
also it seems like waveform and yuji both have products with violet phosphors/emitters at this point so they're either also using the same sunlike chips or they've figured it out some other way. I had one bad experience with a company that had some great fluorescent replacement 5000k bulbs with a really nice coverage of the spectrum when I tested one box, but then I ordered 4 more boxes (I think 48 more bulbs) and they all were totally different than the first box with a much worse "cyan gap" even though they have identical model numbers etc. I'd trust yuji or waveform to have consistent product at this point if you'll be ordering more later on....
I'm relying on the data I've been finding, like https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database. I mentioned up-thread that shows the Norbs have high flicker risk so I passed them over. It seems they might have the good LED chips but maybe the drivers are not so much. If it wasn't for that I'd probably try them.
The Waveform products still have a large blue spike so they don't appear to be much better than "generic" rgb LEDs. Screenshots attached from https://optimizeyourbiology.com/light-bulb-database and Waveform's own spec sheet. So the Waveforms are definitely not similar to the Yujis. I'm glad I didn't buy them.
Yeah that component-swapping is the real minefield in the market. Some of these brands and/or makers are marketing one thing but building something else (or it changes), so it's difficult to pick one with confidence. I agree that someone like Yuji appears more trustworthy at this point (and probably justifies the price premium).
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I was referring to the waveform Absolute series, but it looks like they only have them in strips and modules, no packaged bulb types at the moment
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I was referring to the waveform Absolute series, but it looks like they only have them in strips and modules, no packaged bulb types at the moment
Interesting, hadn't seen those... Would be good if they rolled out emitters like that to their other products too.
I'm already picturing some ways to make custom fixtures for my space... :D
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Yuji has already got them in bulb formats etc-- theirs is called "sunwave" https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/sunlight-technology
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Interesting, hadn't seen those... Would be good if they rolled out emitters like that to their other products too.
I'm already picturing some ways to make custom fixtures for my space... :D
I like led strips. Rather easy (with connectors you don't have to solder) and a rather soft light, almost no hotspot.
>€200 for 5 meter is for me quite a lot.
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Yuji has already got them in bulb formats etc-- theirs is called "sunwave" https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/sunlight-technology
Yes I linked them above, but not that SunWave line because that one doesn't have the right CCT for me. The NormLite line has the D50:
https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/arts-graphics-lighting/products/normlite-cri-98-d50-5000k-standard-illuminant-led-bulb-iso3664-2000-for-art-studio
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I like led strips. Rather easy (with connectors you don't have to solder) and a rather soft light, almost no hotspot.
Yes I think they're very flexible for doing a wider area, and they daisy-chain well. I have a concrete ceiling and limited electrical access so making my own suspended fixtures/panels would be a good option here. My current 2-lamp setup on my work table is often visible in corner of my eyes so I think overhead lighting would work better instead, plus cover move of the room (like @NeilPrintArt 's example above, but with LED strips/bars instead of tube fixtures).
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Yuji Sunwave 5000K: https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/sunlight-technology/products/sunwave-cri-98-a19-a60-flicker-free-wellbeing-lighting-10w-led-bulb-3000k-5000k-2pcs-4pcs
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Yuji Sunwave 5000K: https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/sunlight-technology/products/sunwave-cri-98-a19-a60-flicker-free-wellbeing-lighting-10w-led-bulb-3000k-5000k-2pcs-4pcs
Thanks, I missed that one since it wasn't in the test database at 5K. That's an interesting alternative if someone wants the dual-temperature option, and doesn't need dimming.
For me their D50 NormLite is a better fit.
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I recently noticed that these Colorchecker Graflites are quite cheap at b&h-- does anybody have any experience with these/could possibly take measurements of the spectra?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1762058-REG/calibrite_calb151_grafilite_print_view_light.html
Right now I'm using an old GTI lightbox that I retrofitted with LED strips, but it doesn't have different color temperatures and I like how little space these things take up
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I recently noticed that these Colorchecker Graflites are quite cheap at b&h-- does anybody have any experience with these/could possibly take measurements of the spectra?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1762058-REG/calibrite_calb151_grafilite_print_view_light.html
Right now I'm using an old GTI lightbox that I retrofitted with LED strips, but it doesn't have different color temperatures and I like how little space these things take up
Nothing to to write home about. It's way better to get any video LED lamp with variable CCT, at least they are brighter and can also be used as power bank
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I prefer natural light. I have a table by a window.
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I prefer natural light. I have a table by a window.
How does that work at night or under varying weather conditions?
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How does that work at night or under varying weather conditions?
🤣
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Nothing to to write home about. It's way better to get any video LED lamp with variable CCT, at least they are brighter and can also be used as power bank
Thanks Czornyj-- that actually looks fairly decent, but I'll stick with my retrofitted gti box for now. Might be a good gift/recommendation though at $100. Video LED lamps are good and all, but for the whole package with a stand that just works it measures better than I thought it would.
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How does that work at night or under varying weather conditions?
Well, obviously I wait till morning. I’m not printing for a magazine where I need precise color matching. These are prints that need to pass my aesthetic standards, not a color chart.
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Well, obviously I wait till morning.
Yes, obviously. Maybe this will help next time an obvious question is posted. 🤪
https://steemit.com/funny/@sauravrungta/stupid-questions-people-ask-in-obvious-situations
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Yes, obviously. Maybe this will help next time an obvious question is posted. 🤪
https://steemit.com/funny/@sauravrungta/stupid-questions-people-ask-in-obvious-situations
;D 8)
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Hey, I know this may sound strange but I have a weakness of the old incandescendent lightbulbs, and halogens. I have heard the still make quite a few of them. I'm perfectly aware they have a low K, but spiky they ain't.
Edmund