Luminous Landscape Forum
Raw & Post Processing, Printing => Printing: Printers, Papers and Inks => Topic started by: Peter McLennan on November 17, 2020, 05:23:51 pm
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This whole experience reminds me of the early days of the Internet, when it was all about sharing and helping, rather than hating and shaming. If ever there was an experience to cancel the social damage of social media, it’s my Z3200 debacle of early winter, 2020.
The story begins over a month ago when an uncommonly long power failure hit my neighbourhood. Over 12 hours of no electricity resulted in more than me having to cook supper on the barbeque, it also borked my Z3200.
The symptoms were simple enough: When I hit the “print” button, nothing happened. The print queue showed the problem. No data was being sent to the printer. Those who use these printers will know that HP chose not to use a simple USB connection, instead is uses an IP connection over an ethernet cable and whatever router the customer happens to have installed. This complicates things considerably.
I called HP support and was advised that, since my printer was well out of warranty, I was basically SOL. I pleaded my case, politely informing the support tech that my printer was virtually new, still on it's very first set of carts. HP advised me to check the IP address on the printer and compare it to that which the PC. Sure enough, they differed. During the power failure, the printer had voluntarily changed its IP address to something entirely, randomly new. It was like the printer had changed its phone number. From the printer’s front panel, I changed the printer’s IP address to match the PC’s expectations. That’s when things began to get interesting.
For those who don’t use this printer, invoking “print” automatically brings up a virtual web page inside whatever browser you’re using. There, you can view various statistics on printer use such as media consumed, ink usage and other accounting data. I guess that’s why HP decided to use this overly complicated system. This printer was aimed at businesses, not home hobby users like me.
Following my IP address gymnastics, the printer began to receive data, but the virtual web page looked completely different and lacked several features present in the original. Worse, prints came out rotated 90 degrees, off center and truncated in both axes. Nothing I could do in any of the printer dialogues resulted in any change whatsoever. I consumed a ton of media and ink in various attempts at repair, but the result was the same. Prints were useless.
Now what? I live in a rural area, nine hours and seven mountain passes away from the nearest service facility and winter is approaching in the Great White North. The choice was obvious. Contact Mark Lindquist. Mark knows so much about these printers, he even has a website devoted to their care and feeding.
I left him a contact message and sure enough, hours later, he responded. He suggested that my problems were probably simple and offered to call me on the phone to “walk me through” the solution. I demurred, not wanting to cost him time and money, and attempted on his advice to download and install from HP a new printer driver myself.
I failed. The new printer driver direct from HP wouldn’t contact the printer at all. Mark again suggested he call me, asking for my cell number. I relented and he called me on a Saturday morning and we began to attempt what appeared to be a simple software repair.
Two hours later, we were no further ahead. HP has apparently abandoned this printer (and it’s users) and not only is the current printer driver non-functional (at least on my machine), the printer isn’t even listed on the “supported printers” list in the HP Utility program, a general purpose tool that permits various maintenance operations. The Utility program itself has changed and it no longer functions well with these printers either.
Neither Mark nor I had an older, pre-changes version of the driver or the Utility program, both of which are vital. Without both, you can’t print. My near-new Z3200PS seemed destined for the recycle bin.
Mark subsequently contacted John Dean, another Z3200 user and “deanwork” on the forum, but it turned out that he also lacked the required driver. He in turn contacted Ernst Dinkla, another well-known forum member and Z3200 guru in the Netherlands. This was rapidly turning into a Global, “Save Peter’s Printer” internet enterprise.
Sure enough, a continent away, Ernst uploaded his archive of ancient drivers and utility programs to Mark, who subsequently uploaded them to me and, another two-hour phone call (from Florida to British Columbia) and a long install process later, we began to see light at the end of the tunnel.
I could once again see data spooling from the PC to the printer, but no web page appeared, without which printing won’t begin. Usually, it’s all automatic and the web page opens automagically. But in this case, nothing. I was stonewalled. In a fit of inspiration, I opened a new instance of Chrome and manually entered the printer’s IP address and... Boom! The web page appeared and there was my print job in the queue. I clicked on the job name, chose “continue” and lo and behold, the printer began to make those lovely “I’m getting ready to print” sounds.
It worked! One relatively unhelpful printer manufacturer, five people, two continents, several days, an unknown, unimaginable long distance phone bill and quite a few drinks later, I could finally print again. “Awesome!”, as the kids would say.
Can you imagine my delight? Can you imagine the extent of my gratitude? Even the recycle bin is happy. I was beginning to think I’d have to consign any further printing attempts to some service bureau somewhere. The horror! As we all know, “If it’s not a print, it’s not a photograph.”
Ernst, Mark and John Dean (“Deanwork”), for restoring my faith in the Internet and the community of photographers: THANK YOU!
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Best post I've read on this forum.
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Best post I've read on this forum.
Yes indeed.
I'm so glad it had a (relatively, at loooong last) happy ending.
-Eric
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Yeh, sorry about the length of the story. But you shoulda seen it from our side, on the phone for hours, two days in a row, struggling.
I don't know about Mark, but I sure needed those drinks. :)
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So in the end you just needed an old driver to get the Z to work? That is why i always keep old software...
It has saved me a couple of times.
(and especially Apple makes it deliberate hard to find old system software )
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Best post I've read on this forum.
+1
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So in the end you just needed an old driver to get the Z to work? That is why i always keep old software...
It has saved me a couple of times.
(and especially Apple makes it deliberate hard to find old system software )
The same here, and archiving the hardware with the software can do wonders when solutions are needed fast.
Glad to see it worked for Peter.
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst Dinkla
https://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
"For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong." H. L. Mencken
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I had Ernst's software that he gave me years ago, I just couldn't find it. A text to John, and he contacted Ernst and as usual, Ernst was ready and prepared. I subsequently searched on my machines and found numerous copies of everything we needed, but it just wasn't readily there during our conversation.
The great thing about Peter's post is his outright show of appreciation. So many of us help people on this forum and very often never hear back from them. It is gratifying to see a post like this and know we've helped a guy get his printer back running. I hate having a printer down - I hate the feeling of seeming helplessness, and as others have come to the rescue for me in the past, I too now try to pay it forward helping others.
More and more, experts are made on this forum able to deal with Z3100-Z3200 issues, and now, normally, I step back.
Thank you Peter - appreciate the post. Thanks John and Ernst - you guys are awesome.
Mark
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We all belong to the cult of the Z now. Actually Ernst was the first guy I heard of who discovered this tech in Europe about six months before we met the HP Barcelona guys in NY. His description of them was why I was looking for their booth in the first place. The first year of the Z3100. And I still have mine that runs totally like new.
Someday we’ll all be reflecting on the good old days when we could do everything we needed in one printer and never waste ink in the process .
quote author=Mark Lindquist link=topic=136834.msg1196390#msg1196390 date=1605728413]
I had Ernst's software that he gave me years ago, I just couldn't find it. A text to John, and he contacted Ernst and as usual, Ernst was ready and prepared. I subsequently searched on my machines and found numerous copies of everything we needed, but it just wasn't readily there during our conversation.
The great thing about Peter's post is his outright show of appreciation. So many of us help people on this forum and very often never hear back from them. It is gratifying to see a post like this and know we've helped a guy get his printer back running. I hate having a printer down - I hate the feeling of seeming helplessness, and as others have come to the rescue for me in the past, I too now try to pay it forward helping others.
More and more, experts are made on this forum able to deal with Z3100-Z3200 issues, and now, normally, I step back.
Thank you Peter - appreciate the post. Thanks John and Ernst - you guys are awesome.
Mark
[/quote]
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I still have my Z3100 John, I got it right around the time Michael Reichman got his. It’s just sitting covered in storage - I can’t bring myself to getting rid of it. Having 6 Z Series printers is absurd (including the Z9+) but I’m completely taken with these printers. It’s going to be bad news on the doorstep when they’re all done. I hope we’ll be able to keep them running a long time.
Mark
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Hi Peter, glad to hear you got your printing running again! :) I've just spent yesterday getting my z3100ps "unbricked" again as well, but it wasn't nearly as epic an ordeal as yours! :o
I'm curious about you going back to an older driver and HP Utility version, and you mention the current versions weren't working right for you. Wondering if you can explain what you mean by that, and also what OS you're using? I'm on Win 10 64-bit.
In case this might help others... My z3100 started going "offline" randomly (according to its status in Windows) and files would get stuck in the print queue and couldn't be cleared without force restarting the Windows printer spooler service (or running Windows Troubleshoot on the printer, which does the same thing). But the printer would stay "offline". It seemed I could get one print if I did it immediately after logging in to Windows. After that it would go offline again and I'd have to reboot Windows.
Then when one of my ink cartridges got low, Windows would report "low ink/toner" for the printer and would refuse to send any print job to it at all, with no way to override it. z3100 bricked! It would also block the HP Colour Centre from running (but otherwise the HP Utility seemed okay).
I suspect all this started with a relatively recent Windows update sometime after Aug 2019 (I barely used the printer in the past year). Prior to that, both the HP utility and the driver seemed to work fine (at least by HP standards ::) ).
To fix it I uninstalled the printer and drivers (left HP Utility in place), by deleting the printer from the list of printers, and by deleting the HP driver software listed in Windows under Apps. I then installed the latest driver (raster/PCL3) I could find on HP's website. They were listed under "Windows 8". I noted that all drivers for Win 8 and earlier had the same download file and version, which told me that it was a multi-OS driver package. It's version 61.101.366.41. (My previous version was 61.73-ish.) Much of the file's contents are actually ICC profiles, which are probably unneeded (I skipped them during the install).
The driver won't install on the latest Win 10 builds now because it is blocked by the User Access Control (UAC) because they are unsigned drivers (for Win 10). Even an administrator account can't install them anymore, unlike in earlier Win 10 builds. I temporarily disabled UAC in the Win 10 security policy by running secpol.msc from the Start button, then Local Policies -> Security Options -> User Access Control:Run all admins in Admin Approval Mode -> disable. After rebooting, the driver installed fine, located the z3100 on my network, and set up the connection for it. After the driver was installed I re-enabled UAC and rebooted again.
After that the printer and driver was working again just like it always used to. It never goes "offline" in Windows, and the "low ink/toner" doesn't appear in the Windows printer status either.
The HP Utility is still at the latest version, 1.17.0.3. It seems to be as functional as it always was. I still use it to check printer status, launch Color Center to profile papers, etc.
Hoping all that helps someone someday!
Cheers :)
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There was a major issue with Windows 10 V1903 Update breaking literally any HP printer driver.
I was a victim of ths issue, too. But I didnt even think about my Z3200 as I first noticed it with my HP OfficeJet.
Here is good writeup: https://borncity.com/win/2019/10/01/windows-printer-issues-after-sept-2019-update-confirmed/
You bet this will happen again, sooner or later.
regards
Gernot
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One thing to be remembered about these Zs, don’t unplug them and turn them off for long periods. When my 3100 broke a belt I left it for almost a year. All the heads were dried, with a blank nozzle check, and I had to replace all six at a cost of about $430.00. Recently someone offered me a z3200 that was in really good condition, only problem was they did the same thing. Soaking the heads didn’t work, so I passed.
You can leave these printers almost forever plugged in without use, but unplugged for a long time will cost you. The good thing is the ink doesn’t dry in the lines, only the heads.
There was a major issue with Windows 10 V1903 Update breaking literally any HP printer driver.
I was a victim of ths issue, too. But I didnt even think about my Z3200 as I first noticed it with my HP OfficeJet.
Here is good writeup: https://borncity.com/win/2019/10/01/windows-printer-issues-after-sept-2019-update-confirmed/
You bet this will happen again, sooner or later.
regards
Gernot
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Scary stuff, Kyle. Lucky (or smart) of you to be able to diagnose and solve these problems. I used to shoot movies for a living and, as I said to Mark on the phone as we were attempting repairs, "This is way harder!"
I guess with these Z3200's being "end-of-lifed" by HP, we're more and more on our own. Too bad, really. My Z3200 knocks spots off my even-older Epson 9800, bought for $999 and now a boat anchor. The HP uses half the ink and the prints are far better. I worry about the future availability of heads for the Z3200. I've been through two so far. Are they still manufacturing them?
Interesting about the Windows Update affecting HP printers. It even zapped my lowly $100 (when new) HP laser printer, a workhorse for many years.
Fortunately, I had the old drivers for it.
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There was a major issue with Windows 10 V1903 Update breaking literally any HP printer driver.
I was a victim of ths issue, too. But I didnt even think about my Z3200 as I first noticed it with my HP OfficeJet.
Here is good writeup: https://borncity.com/win/2019/10/01/windows-printer-issues-after-sept-2019-update-confirmed/
You bet this will happen again, sooner or later.
Yes I saw that mentioned a lot in my search for a fix, and that's why I suspected a Windows update caused my issues as well. I mean, nothing else changed on the system aside from that. Fortunately removing the printer & drivers and reinstalling seems to fix it with the present Win 10 builds, at least in my case. I was lucky to miss that initial chaos period in Fall 2019 when the Windows update first broke everything and fixes weren't available.
Yeah I agree this will probably come around again in the future. Curse of legacy hardware and drivers :-\
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Scary stuff, Kyle. Lucky (or smart) of you to be able to diagnose and solve these problems. I used to shoot movies for a living and, as I said to Mark on the phone as we were attempting repairs, "This is way harder!"
I guess with these Z3200's being "end-of-life'd" by HP, we're more and more on our own.
I'm going with "lucky"!! ;D
In my mind my z3100 has been end-lifed by HP for the past 5-10 years, as I watched the level of tech support options and software development pace spiral downward. Thankfully at least they're still producing the consumables.
What OS are you using with your z3200? Win 10?
Cheers
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Yes, Kyle. W10 64 bit.
Just built a new Ryzen box for video editing. So, coupled with the joy of my Z3200 failure, I have the intense pleasure of migrating a decade's worth of work habits, software and data from one computer to another.
Remember when Bill Gates said "640K should be enough for anybody"? I now have a hundred thousand times more RAM than that. :)
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Yes, Kyle. W10 64 bit.
Just built a new Ryzen box for video editing. So, coupled with the joy of my Z3200 failure, I have the intense pleasure of migrating a decade's worth of work habits, software and data from one computer to another.
Remember when Bill Gates said "640K should be enough for anybody"? I now have a hundred thousand times more RAM than that. :)
Ugh, it's a painful migration for sure :P My z3100 has lived through Win XP, 7, and now 10. Maybe Win 2000 in the beginning as well. Fortunately, although it's never been smooth transitions, everything still seems to work out in the end and it keeps humming along! :)
Ok the reason I was curious about your OS is whether the same thing I did might help you as well to be able to use the latest drivers. If my experience is any indication, you should be able to install the same PCL3/raster driver version 61.101.366.41 from the hp website on your Win 10 64-bit machine and have everything working properly with both the driver and the HP Utility (1.17.0.3). You'll need to temporarily disable UAC in Win 10 like I described above to install the driver (and then re-enable it afterward), but I would think it should work. That would then put you on the latest driver available for these machines (for all time apparently...).
Lol I remember doing a lot of memory tweaking to get stuff to run with that 640K! :D Suspect I'll have an EMM386 nightmare now tonight ::)
Cheers
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Thanks, Kyle, for your detailed suggestion. I'll download and archive both your suggestion and the driver should I need it in the future. For now, however, it's "If it ain't broke..." :)
Having the border closed is a big hassle for me. My preferred roll media and sheet stock are only available in the US. I live just six km from the border, but those items might as well be on Mars. :(
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Thanks, Kyle, for your detailed suggestion. I'll download and archive both your suggestion and the driver should I need it in the future. For now, however, it's "If it ain't broke..." :)
Having the border closed is a big hassle for me. My preferred roll media and sheet stock are only available in the US. I live just six km from the border, but those items might as well be on Mars. :(
Haha I was thinking "ain't broke..." might also be a good idea ;D
I've been lucky with the limited stuff I've bought recently through Canadian retailers/distributors. Quick delivery of HP roll media & inks from Printers Plus, and Breathing Colour roll media from Amplis Photo. Hopefully your supply line opens up soon!
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One thing to be remembered about these Zs, don’t unplug them and turn them off for long periods. When my 3100 broke a belt I left it for almost a year. All the heads were dried, with a blank nozzle check, and I had to replace all six at a cost of about $430.00. Recently someone offered me a z3200 that was in really good condition, only problem was they did the same thing. Soaking the heads didn’t work, so I passed.
You can leave these printers almost forever plugged in without use, but unplugged for a long time will cost you. The good thing is the ink doesn’t dry in the lines, only the heads.
I am confident the Z series will not wake up at certain intervals to clean and check while being soft-off. In fact it keeps the fan running but nothing more. You cannot even wake it up without pressing the power button.
So I guess doing prints from time to time is the only way to keep the gheads in good condition.
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Mine does, even through the driver illness, my Z3200 kept up its several-times-a-day cleaning, exercising regimen. I don't turn it off, ever. I just print and walk away.
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I am confident the Z series will not wake up at certain intervals to clean and check while being soft-off. In fact it keeps the fan running but nothing more. You cannot even wake it up without pressing the power button.
So I guess doing prints from time to time is the only way to keep the gheads in good condition.
If soft-off means using the powerbutton near the screen; I don't soft-off; I keep it on all the time- it goes to sleep and then wakes now and then to clean a bit.
I agree that printing a small target every week all with colours is a good thing to keep the printer healthy. My Z3100 runs already since januari 2007...
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Yea, both of mine wake up periodically and move the head along the carriage, check the heads, and often clean nozzles.
However, unlike the Canon I have, it doesn’t agitate the ink tanks and put as much power behind the cleanings. But the Canon is twice as big and at least twice as heavy...
My experience is if no printing is done for many weeks, you may end up having to do one single head clean ( not all the heads ). But your heads won’t dry out and need replacing. Really though my 3100 has sat there for months with no missing nozzles at all. Unplug it and leave it , and you will have trouble. But I agree, it’s a good idea to run one color target through it once a week for best results. Also Periodically I take the ink carts out and shake them if I’m not printing.
John
If soft-off means using the powerbutton near the screen; I don't soft-off; I keep it on all the time- it goes to sleep and then wakes now and then to clean a bit.
I agree that printing a small target every week all with colours is a good thing to keep the printer healthy. My Z3100 runs already since januari 2007...
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One thing to be remembered about these Zs, don’t unplug them and turn them off for long periods. When my 3100 broke a belt I left it for almost a year. All the heads were dried, with a blank nozzle check, and I had to replace all six at a cost of about $430.00. Recently someone offered me a z3200 that was in really good condition, only problem was they did the same thing. Soaking the heads didn’t work, so I passed.
You can leave these printers almost forever plugged in without use, but unplugged for a long time will cost you. The good thing is the ink doesn’t dry in the lines, only the heads.
There's probably some variation to that too, depending on where/how it's stored. I had my z3100 in storage for about 1.5 yrs (thanks to poor planning around moving house). It was in climate-controlled storage and bagged inside the original plastic wrap and styrofoam "crate". I was really nervous about it's condition the whole time, but the manual said nothing more was required for storage.
When I finally got it out of storage, I had to burn through a lot of ink and paper doing purges, head cleans, and diagnostics plots, but eventually it sorted out. The MK-R head was the only one that wasn't stellar, and it eventually had to be replaced some time later. (No surprise since it's nearest the spittoon crud. (Edit: right-side service station, not spittoon.)) I tried my best manually cleaning it, but just wasn't enough I guess.
Was pretty happy overall with how well it came back, since it could've been much worse like you said. Rather not do it again though!
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What you long-term users say makes sense. Thanks. I'm going to print something at least every week from now on. I've not been doing that.
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If soft-off means using the powerbutton near the screen; I don't soft-off; I keep it on all the time- it goes to sleep and then wakes now and then to clean a bit.
I agree that printing a small target every week all with colours is a good thing to keep the printer healthy. My Z3100 runs already since januari 2007...
Yea, that makes sense. You leave it on all the time, after a configured amount of time it will fall asleep (Power button is now yellow). In this state it wakes up for jobs and maintenance, keeps the power fan running but the wattage difference between on and sleeping is neglectible. Mine takes about 60W, not exactly economical.
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Yea, that makes sense. You leave it on all the time, after a configured amount of time it will fall asleep (Power button is now yellow). In this state it wakes up for jobs and maintenance, keeps the power fan running but the wattage difference between on and sleeping is neglectible. Mine takes about 60W, not exactly economical.
i measured the wattage some time ago:
Printer HPZ3100
standby 23 watt
standbye met lights on/ maintenance = 40 watt
printing ca 60-80 watt
in my case about 40€ a year
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In many ways the Z3200 was a slight improvement over the Z3100, except for the fan. In the 3100 when asleep the fan goes to sleep also. Why in the world the 3200 fan stays on I’ll never figure out. It’s bound to burn out faster and waste electricity. I’ve gotten used to the sound.
i measured the wattage some time ago:
Printer HPZ3100
standby 23 watt
standbye met lights on/ maintenance = 40 watt
printing ca 60-80 watt
in my case about 40€ a year
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In many ways the Z3200 was a slight improvement over the Z3100, except for the fan. In the 3100 when asleep the fan goes to sleep also. Why in the world the 3200 fan stays on I’ll never figure out. It’s bound to burn out faster and waste electricity. I’ve gotten used to the sound.
Did not know that; makes it far less nice to keep the printer on. I also can see no reason it should stay on.
isn't it made to make the ink spill in the right direction- while printing?
I think i am on my third fan.
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Thats why I replaced all fans with silent ones, the power supply got an inaudible Noctua NF-A8 ULN.
I forgot the type I used for the service station.
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That’s cool. I didn’t even know there were two of them.
In 12 years I never had to replace the fan on the 3100. How easy is it to replace the 3200 fan. I should buy one and have it ready.
Thats why I replaced all fans with silent ones, the power supply got an inaudible Noctua NF-A8 ULN.
I forgot the type I used for the service station.
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The Aerosol Fan on the service station can be changed easily, just need to take of the right cover.
For the PSU on the left side you need to take of the plastics, the lever and remove the formatter board. Then unplug all cables from the PSU to the mainboard and take it out. The fan is inside the cage.
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Great post Peter! Thanks for sharing. In my own nightmare now.
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The Aerosol Fan on the service station can be changed easily, just need to take of the right cover.
For the PSU on the left side you need to take of the plastics, the lever and remove the formatter board. Then unplug all cables from the PSU to the mainboard and take it out. The fan is inside the cage.
Changing out the PSU fan will prove to be an arduous task startingfrom scratch just to change out the fan. If the left side is open for other repairs it will be easier, but even so, since the fan is inside the psu cage there are a ton of screws just to get at it. I changed mine out last time it was open to replacethe carriage belt, but it was a pain:
Replacing psu fan (http://z3200.com/Power_Supply_Unit_Fan_Replacement-HP-Z3200_Printers-Mark%20Lindquist.htm)
It amazes me that they out a cheap sleeve bearing fan in a machine designed to run 24/7/365.
And... field technicians never replace a fan - they ONLY replace the entire power supply.
Be warned that the Z9+ is extremely difficult to even change out the power supply which houses the HDD and LAN card, unlike the ease with which the formatter board can easily be removed on the Z3100-Z3200 models.
The PSU fan is a critical component in the power supply. If anyone changes it, get the very best fan you can find. Ball bearings all the way.
Mark