Luminous Landscape Forum

The Art of Photography => User Critiques => Topic started by: Ivo_B on January 11, 2020, 04:32:18 pm

Title: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 11, 2020, 04:32:18 pm
I’m working on a new series called Caoutchouc, French for Rubber.

Does it work?

Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 11, 2020, 04:49:25 pm
..
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: RSL on January 11, 2020, 07:49:33 pm
Interesting framing, Ivo. I like 'em both.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: brandtb on January 12, 2020, 09:47:00 am
Nice feeling/color/comp of the first image - you've just clipped off the bottom of the chair legs and the bases of the rightmost column pairs though? - not sure about that. Maybe minor but would have gotten those elements in the frame.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 12, 2020, 10:23:57 am
Nice feeling/color/comp of the first image - you've just clipped off the bottom of the chair legs and the bases of the rightmost column pairs though? - not sure about that. Maybe minor but would have gotten those elements in the frame.

Well, I try to bring a certain uncomfortableness, ominously atmosphere in the images.
The main reason of this shot is the location (Antwerp central station) the location in the location (the Royal lounge) and the date (1905) and the Kings (Leopold II) monogram.
I was hoping that cutting the frame at an unexpected line, it would force the viewer to look further than the obvious.



Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on January 12, 2020, 11:24:48 am
What does either of them have to do with rubber?

Jeremy
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 12, 2020, 11:49:26 am
What does either of them have to do with rubber?

Jeremy

Quit a lot, Jeremy. Check out Congo Free State, the pre-colonial period of Belgium.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State?wprov=sfti1

That’s the reason I’m working on a series about rubber and what Belgium today is thanks and despite it.

The second image is going to fit later in the series, the link between Congo and (Blood) diamonds is another artefact of Colonial Belgium.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: rabanito on January 12, 2020, 12:14:00 pm
Quit a lot, Jeremy. Check out Congo Free State, the pre-colonial period of Belgium.

See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State?wprov=sfti1

That’s the reason I’m working on a series about rubber and what Belgium today is thanks and despite it.

The second image is going to fit later in the series, the link between Congo and (Blood) diamonds is another artefact of Colonial Belgium.

Interesting. But the link between Caoutchouc and the railway station is not self evident and needs some explanation.
I'm told that in Brussels there is even a monument to that person Leopold II
Something equivalent to having a monument to Hitler in Berlin. At least IMHO
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 12, 2020, 12:21:30 pm
Interesting. But the link between Caoutchouc and the railway station is not self evident and needs some explanation.
I'm told that in Brussels there is even a monument to that person Leopold II
Something equivalent to having a monument to Hitler in Berlin. At least IMHO

Actually I’m testing images. The story should emerge from the series once it’s finished.

There are more than one statue of our king. Streets and squares are named to him.  The whole discussion around Leopold and his responsibility in the free state Congo massacre is complex to answer. Therefore I’m searching for how Belgium today is still a reflection of colonial robberies and murder.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 12, 2020, 12:36:43 pm
Actually I’m testing images. The story should emerge from the series once it’s finished.

There are more than one statue of our first king. Streets and squares are named to him.  The whole discussion around Leopold and his responsibility in the free state Congo massacre is complex to answer. Therefore I’m searching for how Belgium today is still a reflection of colonial robberies and murder.

I have no idea about Belgium being a reflection of what occurred in Africa but for sure the DRC is a reflection of what happened. You cannot brutalize a society and kill that large a percentage of its population for simple economic expediency without the consequences lingering for generations. My girlfriend flies up there for work now and again. The place is pretty much screwed.

It’s horrifying that there are still statues of Leopold on display. Perhaps a label could simply be attached to the pedestal stating how many millions of people he had killed.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 12, 2020, 12:58:34 pm
I have no idea about Belgium being a reflection of what occurred in Africa but for sure the DRC is a reflection of what happened. You cannot brutalize a society and kill that large a percentage of its population for simple economic expediency without the consequences lingering for generations. My girlfriend flies up there for work now and again. The place is pretty much screwed.

It’s horrifying that there are still statues of Leopold on display. Perhaps a label could simply be attached to the pedestal stating how many millions of people he had killed.

Absolutely correct.
All statues in Flanders carry such a label, Martin. The perception of the history is different in the french part of Belgium, I must say. The CRC (contra reformation Catholics) have an even more ‘nuanced’ view one the history.

The strange thing is that in Congo, Leopold is honored (by the regime) as father of the nation.

Central station was a personal gift from Leopold to Antwerp. Leopold invested private money in the Antwerp zoo. In Brussels, a statue of Leopold on a horse is looking over the Matongè neighborhood , can you imagine. Oostende became ‘the’ seaside town of the Belle Époque thanks Leopold’s loot.

It is that what triggered my interest in making a series on the subject.

Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on January 12, 2020, 03:28:27 pm
Quit a lot, Jeremy. Check out Congo Free State, the pre-colonial period of Belgium.

You're obviously aiming at those better-informed than I. Belgians perhaps. For the rest of the world, I suggest more exposition.

Jeremy
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 12, 2020, 03:35:18 pm
You're obviously aiming at those better-informed than I. Belgians perhaps. For the rest of the world, I suggest more exposition.

Jeremy

No, I’m aiming at active viewers.
Even Ben Affleck knows about it. And he is not Belgian.  ;)

Try googling Rubber. Check Wiki.

More, In 1909 Your Sir Artur Conan Doyle wrote the book “The Crime of Congo” as a pamflet against the abuse of human rights in the free state Congo, privatly owned by our king. It’s not ‘a Belgian thing’
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Jeremy Roussak on January 12, 2020, 03:59:30 pm
I'm aware of the appalling Belgian behaviour in Africa. I would suggest, though, that it will take more than the title "rubber" to make a series of photographs of buildings, however oddly framed, have meaning to most of humanity. Still, it's not my time or pixels, so you carry on.

Jeremy
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 12, 2020, 04:08:55 pm
I'm aware of the appalling Belgian behaviour in Africa. I would suggest, though, that it will take more than the title "rubber" to make a series of photographs of buildings, however oddly framed, have meaning to most of humanity. Still, it's not my time or pixels, so you carry on.

Jeremy

Most of humanity....... what a dédain, no need for that, Jeremy.

  ::)

To be honest, I’m happy about the reactions, also yours.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 12, 2020, 04:13:25 pm
it will take more than the title "rubber" to make a series of photographs of buildings, however oddly framed, have meaning to most of humanity.

Jeremy

It needs more pictures, Jeremy. Thats why it is going to be a series. Will it work? Don’t know. I will find out. Probably it will not be for everybody. I’m fine with that.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 12, 2020, 04:54:47 pm
Yawn.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: rabanito on January 12, 2020, 05:21:09 pm
Actually I’m testing images. The story should emerge from the series once it’s finished.


I needed your explanation for recognizing the building as the façade of a railway station.
I guess the umbrellas are distracting.
The monogram of Leopold takes also some  time to find. Again the lettering on the umbrellas I guess.
Maybe taking the  pics by night? Then they would take out all distracting items...
Just MHO  :)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 12, 2020, 10:47:46 pm
A photograph frequently walks the line between accessibility/boring and incomprehensibility/interesting. You need to find the balance.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 13, 2020, 01:03:33 am
A photograph frequently walks the line between accessibility/boring and incomprehensibility/interesting. You need to find the balance.

It’s a challenge.
I want to make a series that works like a jigsaw puzzle . The more pictures on the table, the clearer the story.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 13, 2020, 01:10:11 am
I needed your explanation for recognizing the building as the façade of a railway station.
I guess the umbrellas are distracting.
The monogram of Leopold takes also some  time to find. Again the lettering on the umbrellas I guess.
Maybe taking the  pics by night? Then they would take out all distracting items...
Just MHO  :)

Thanks, you are right about the link to a railway station. The blue sign only works for somebody who know Belgian rail stations. The little wheels on the marble are no hint.
The Corsendonk umbrellas are a link to Belgium.

I need some reflection of the tracks in the door.... or another picture in the series to support the determination of the location.

Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 13, 2020, 01:17:01 am
I think it an interesting project. Imagine you could find a photographer working in the DRC that could do a similar thing where they live  and then put the two pieces together.

Tough with a project like this to expect positive feedback on a forum such as this. Not denigrating the photographers here but on the forum it’s mostly individual images with little attention to a narrative. It’s simply the nature of it. There are some exceptions of course.  Perhaps keep this thread alive and develop the narrative over time?
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 13, 2020, 03:46:45 am
I think it an interesting project. Imagine you could find a photographer working in the DRC that could do a similar thing where they live  and then put the two pieces together.

Tough with a project like this to expect positive feedback on a forum such as this. Not denigrating the photographers here but on the forum it’s mostly individual images with little attention to a narrative. It’s simply the nature of it. There are some exceptions of course.  Perhaps keep this thread alive and develop the narrative over time?

I know Martin.

I’ll keep the thread alive.

Good suggestions about a photographer in the DRC, I know Carl Dekeyzer made two books and is working on a new one.

Leopold II was never in Congo, I found it interesting to take the same approach, looking in Belgium and blind towards DRC.

I will see where it goes, but I’m trilled to have a project at hands. 😬
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 13, 2020, 05:50:34 am
It’s very motivating. I have a few running at the same time. Did you sign up for that Magnum course? The recent one you posted about.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 13, 2020, 06:48:36 am
It’s very motivating. I have a few running at the same time. Did you sign up for that Magnum course? The recent one you posted about.

Yes. And coincidentally it’s very interesting in the light of this project. I don’t find Alec Soth the most inspiring person on earth, but overall it’s interesting to learn how he approaches his projects.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Rob C on January 13, 2020, 10:22:50 am
1.  Ivo, I tried the series thing myself with my Miss Coke; it ended up a dead end and a mental trap to boot.

http://www.roma57.com/coke.html

Frankly, it (a series) eventually becomes forced, at which point it loses (at least for me, who has to make the snaps) its value because one tries too hard and it shows. I think art has to look fluid, easy and natural.

2.  I also failed to make any connection with rubber. Unless you want to limit the interest to those already in the know, perhaps the way around it is to start with a proposition laying out your intentions.

For that to work fluently, you'll really need to keep the images grouped together at all times, along with the explanatory introduction. Showing a single image at a time will not cut it because its success then depends on the viewer always staying aware of the concept, which it a pretty big wish for anyone.

Rob
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 13, 2020, 11:45:20 am
1.  Ivo, I tried the series thing myself with my Miss Coke; it ended up a dead end and a mental trap to boot.

http://www.roma57.com/coke.html

Frankly, it (a series) eventually becomes forced, at which point it loses (at least for me, who has to make the snaps) its value because one tries too hard and it shows. I think art has to look fluid, easy and natural.

2.  I also failed to make any connection with rubber. Unless you want to limit the interest to those already in the know, perhaps the way around it is to start with a proposition laying out your intentions.

For that to work fluently, you'll really need to keep the images grouped together at all times, along with the explanatory introduction. Showing a single image at a time will not cut it because its success then depends on the viewer always staying aware of the concept, which it a pretty big wish for anyone.

Rob

I did not make the jump to ‘art’. I want to make a photographic story.

It will take more photo’s and a strict selection process to end up with something, but that’s the challenge I guess.

Thank for your insights Rob, Much appreciated.

(Maybe your Coke series is to literal to work well?)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: KLaban on January 13, 2020, 01:40:37 pm
I've always worked in series, as a painter and photographer, some tight, some loose: I know no other way.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Rob C on January 13, 2020, 02:31:25 pm
I've always worked in series, as a painter and photographer, some tight, some loose: I know no other way.

That sort of differentiates your field of photography from mine, where single shots were usually the name of the game for my advertising work, with a thematic approach reserved for calendars because the series could be seen in sequence in a calendar. If doing a trip for a manufacturer's seasonal range of clothes, then yes, a very loose theme would be developed simply by dint of the location creating one, but that would be more incidental than anything thought out in anger.

On a different topic, but one to which you may hold the key: I usually use the words "painter" or "artist" when I refer to people with painting skills; I am never sure how to describe or what to call people who make excellent drawings but don't paint. Does an official name exist in the art world and/or colleges for that isolated skill? I haven't heard of them referred to as drawers. No, this isn't intended as a silly play on words, I really am at a loss about the appropriate word for folks with such a specialised part of artistic ability. You're gonna hate this: how to label their box correctly and unequivocally?
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: KLaban on January 13, 2020, 02:33:56 pm
That sort of differentiates your field of photography from mine, where single shots were usually the name of the game for my advertising work, with a thematic approach reserved for calendars because the series could be seen in sequence in a calendar. If doing a trip for a manufacturer's seasonal range of clothes, then yes, a very loose theme would be developed simply by dint of the location creating one, but that would be more incidental than anything thought out in anger.

On a different topic, but one to which you may hold the key: I usually use the words "painter" or "artist" when I refer to people with painting skills; I am never sure how to describe or what to call people who make excellent drawings but don't paint. Does an official name exist in the art world and/or colleges for that isolated skill? I haven't heard of them referred to as drawers. No, this isn't intended as a silly play on words, I really am at a loss about the appropriate word for folks with such a specialised part of artistic ability. You're gonna hate this: how to label their box correctly and unequivocally?


Rob, that would be draughtsman/draughtsmanship.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Rob C on January 13, 2020, 02:47:38 pm
Rob, that would be draughtsman/draughtsmanship.

Yes, that fits, but draughtsman is terribly associated with engineering and architectural drawings; it isn't the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of those people with the ability to make caricatures/portraits of people, drawings of trees, meadows, animals... but as I wrote, that aspect of the word just fails to come to my mind.

There is every possibility that it's just another of those tiny mental blocks that inhabit some minds. Now and then I write something, look at it again, and wonder if I mean the same thing as the dictionary means. Fortunately, I think I usually manage to sort it out in time.

:-)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: KLaban on January 13, 2020, 03:05:52 pm
Yes, that fits, but draughtsman is terribly associated with engineering and architectural drawings; it isn't the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of those people with the ability to make caricatures/portraits of people, drawings of trees, meadows, animals... but as I wrote, that aspect of the word just fails to come to my mind.

There is every possibility that it's just another of those tiny mental blocks that inhabit some minds. Now and then I write something, look at it again, and wonder if I mean the same thing as the dictionary means. Fortunately, I think I usually manage to sort it out in time.

:-)

Rob, draughtsman/draughtsmanship is the term used by artists to describe the practitioner of drawing or the skill of drawing. For example, Leonardo was a fine draughtsman, his level of draughtsmanship was unequalled.

Simples.

;-)

Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Rob C on January 13, 2020, 03:19:04 pm
Rob, draughtsman/draughtsmanship is the term used by artists to describe the practitioner of drawing or the skill of drawing. For example, Leonardo was a fine draughtsman, his level of draughtsmanship was unequalled.

Simples.

;-)


I'll settle for that! Ta!
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: rabanito on January 13, 2020, 04:13:53 pm
Yes, that fits, but draughtsman is terribly associated with engineering and architectural drawings; it isn't the first thing that comes to my mind when I think of those people with the ability to make caricatures/portraits of people, drawings of trees, meadows, animals... but as I wrote, that aspect of the word just fails to come to my mind.


Interesting. I would have used "illustrator"
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: KLaban on January 13, 2020, 04:33:08 pm
Interesting. I would have used "illustrator"

As an illustrator for more years than I care to remember I used a number of different media, as do many other illustrators. Illustration is defined by process not medium.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: rabanito on January 13, 2020, 04:36:27 pm
As an illustrator I used a number of different media, as do other illustrators.
Good to know.
Thank you for improving my English :)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 14, 2020, 12:57:44 am
Where I am from we use the term illustrator. Ad Agencies always employed such people and they worked in various mediums including digital. Draughtsman was always a term used for technical engineering and architectural plans.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: KLaban on January 14, 2020, 03:43:45 am
Where I am from we use the term illustrator. Ad Agencies always employed such people and they worked in various mediums including digital. Draughtsman was always a term used for technical engineering and architectural plans.

As did I for 25+ years. Illustrator is the common description for one who illustrates, regardless of medium. People can have the ability to draw without being an illustrator or engaging in illustration.

Rob is asking for an alternative word for drawing and those who draw. Every illustrator I know has a far wider skill set than just the ability to draw, they also use media other than specific drawing tools and have additional design skills.

As I've said, artists use the words draughtsman and draughtsmanship to describe and define drawing and those who draw. Unfortunately the word draughtsman, amongst the general public at least, has taken on and to a degree has been superseded by a different meaning connected with a specific job description.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 14, 2020, 04:40:32 am
Getting miles off track. Sorry Ivo

I know many fine artists, some quite famous. Not all can draw. I have heard artists talking amongst themselves and when they want to say that a particular artist draws very well then that is what they say. As in "William Kentridge can really draw"! I think that draughtsman in the context of what is being spoken about in this thread is archaic and no longer in general use.

Anecdotal for sure but I have met far more illustrators that can draw than artists.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 14, 2020, 05:33:05 am
Getting miles off track. Sorry Ivo

I know many fine artists, some quite famous. Not all can draw. I have heard artists talking amongst themselves and when they want to say that a particular artist draws very well then that is what they say. As in "William Kentridge can really draw"! I think that draughtsman in the context of what is being spoken about in this thread is archaic and no longer in general use.

Anecdotal for sure but I have met far more illustrators that can draw than artists.

Well, draftsman use rubber to correct errors, so the link between the topics titel and the last posts is more obvious than the link with the pictures.

 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 14, 2020, 05:55:21 am
Note the three distinct meanings (and two spellings):
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on January 14, 2020, 08:51:21 am
Maybe we need a new term for people who draw stuff.
I propose "draw-stuff persons." Elegant? Simple? Doesn't have to be spelled differently for British or American audiences?    ???
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 14, 2020, 10:58:48 am
Maybe we need a new term for people who draw stuff.
I propose "draw-stuff persons." Elegant? Simple? Doesn't have to be spelled differently for British or American audiences?    ???

Maybe we need a genre.
Street illustrators
Travel atmospheric draftsmen
...
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Rob C on January 14, 2020, 11:27:52 am
Maybe we need a genre.
Street illustrators
Travel atmospheric draftsmen
...

No, the genres are wide open; what we needed and I think we now have, is a definitive name for the artist working within that medium. I mentioned before that in my case, the problem was word-blindness: not having gone to art school, but having worked in engineering for four years, my reaction to/interpretation of the word draughtsman has always been tempered by its industrial connotations.

Keith brought forth a further, art-based word that perfectly fitted my question and resolved my quandary.

Rob
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 14, 2020, 11:31:11 am
No, the genres are wide open; what we needed and I think we now have, is a definitive name for the artist working within that medium. I mentioned before that in my case, the problem was word-blindness: not having gone to art school, but having worked in engineering for four years, my reaction to/interpretation of the word draughtsman has always been tempered by its industrial connotations.

Keith brought forth a further, art-based word that perfectly fitted my question and resolved my quandary.

Rob

.... sure?
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on January 14, 2020, 01:50:42 pm
Well, I guess now we can start another endless discussion about whether G*d wanted us to use the term "Draftsman" or the term "Draughtsman" (or the term "Draftswoman" or the term "Draughtswoman," or even the term "Draftsperson" or the term "Draughtsperson")    :o

Or we could just snap some pictures or draw some pictures.    :)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 14, 2020, 01:56:31 pm
Well, I guess now we can start another endless discussion about whether G*d wanted us to use the term "Draftsman" or the term "Draughtsman" (or the term "Draftswoman" or the term "Draughtswoman," or even the term "Draftsperson" or the term "Draughtsperson")    :o

Or we could just snap some pictures or draw some pictures.    :)
G*d with or without capital ‘G’?
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Rob C on January 14, 2020, 02:01:12 pm
Quote from: Ivo_B link=topic=133561.msg1147502#msg1147502'esr date=1579019471
.... sure?

Mais oui. C'est clair.

:-)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 14, 2020, 03:07:54 pm
... "Draftsman" or the term "Draughtsman" (or the term "Draftswoman" or the term "Draughtswoman," or even the term "Draftsperson" or the term "Draughtsperson")...

Draftsgender? Draughtsgender?
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: KLaban on January 16, 2020, 12:38:00 pm
i'm writing this from a hospital bed so will be breif. draughtsman and  draughtsmanship are still widely used by artists today. to describe thoso who draw and the skill of drawing.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Rob C on January 16, 2020, 12:48:41 pm
What the hell are you doing in bed at this hour?

Get well quickly, Keith.

Best wishes,

Rob
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: RSL on January 16, 2020, 02:59:28 pm
+ at least 2 or 3!
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Eric Myrvaagnes on January 17, 2020, 06:26:38 pm
+ at least 2 or 3!
+5.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: KLaban on January 18, 2020, 02:31:12 am
thanks, guys.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 18, 2020, 04:03:50 am
i'm writing this from a hospital bed so will be breif. draughtsman and  draughtsmanship are still widely used by artists today. to describe thoso who draw and the skill of drawing.

I hope nothing too serious, Keith. Get well soon!
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Dale Villeponteaux on January 18, 2020, 10:46:04 am
What? No votes for Pencil Pusher?
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Rob C on January 18, 2020, 02:06:18 pm
What? No votes for Pencil Pusher?

Nasty!

:-)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 18, 2020, 02:15:58 pm
Colonial artifacts
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Rob C on January 18, 2020, 03:41:02 pm
If you had a statue like that and put it into a public place in Britain you would get stoned to death.

But hey, perhaps that explains Brexit.

:-(
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 19, 2020, 09:08:56 am
Regi Belgarvm

Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 19, 2020, 09:11:13 am
Leopold II Bienfaiteur des parcs public

Empty pedestal
...

Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 19, 2020, 01:53:41 pm
Seems like an interesting documentary project, perhaps worthy of an illustrated political essay. Not sure what it has to do with photography, though. Pretty mundane snaps.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: chez on January 19, 2020, 02:06:44 pm
Seems like an interesting documentary project, perhaps worthy of an illustrated political essay. Not sure what it has to do with photography, though. Pretty mundane snaps.

Agree...I'm not much impressed with the individual images. Maybe a collage would make more sense.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 19, 2020, 03:09:14 pm
Seems like an interesting documentary project, perhaps worthy of an illustrated political essay. Not sure what it has to do with photography, though. Pretty mundane snaps.

What I said in the beginning, it’s going to be a series. Lot’s of pictures to take, selecting, selecting, retaking pictures, etc etc.

Photography as a means, not a goal. That’s not such a strange concept?
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 19, 2020, 03:13:25 pm
Actually I’m testing images. The story should emerge from the series once it’s finished.

There are more than one statue of our king. Streets and squares are named to him.  The whole discussion around Leopold and his responsibility in the free state Congo massacre is complex to answer. Therefore I’m searching for how Belgium today is still a reflection of colonial robberies and murder.

That’s the intention.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 19, 2020, 03:36:04 pm
Thank you...

Nodding money box
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: luxborealis on January 19, 2020, 09:04:09 pm
Not being familiar with the word “Caoutchouc”, it caught my eye and am now (forum banter aside)  intrigued by your ideas and what you are trying to achieve. Great potential here, Ivo. I like the political bent. Photographs have been used for decades to communicate and sway and document and reveal current and past political realities, even the ugly ones.

Don’t let the naysayers get you down. It’s a work in progress. I am typically one who wants answers from photographs. I want them to be descriptive and to explain everything, hence the limited depth to my own work. I like your idea of building the puzzle of connections through additional images. It forces me to ask questions along the way.

Looking at one photograph and trying to figure out the whole thing is like looking at one tree and trying to figure out a whole forest. To some, it’s just a tree. But, once the whole forest is revealed (What? You mean a forest is more than just a bunch of trees?), one begins to appreciate the richness and diversity that’s there.

Good luck and keep us informed.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 20, 2020, 01:05:11 am
Not being familiar with the word “Caoutchouc”, it caught my eye and am now (forum banter aside)  intrigued by your ideas and what you are trying to achieve. Great potential here, Ivo. I like the political bent. Photographs have been used for decades to communicate and sway and document and reveal current and past political realities, even the ugly ones.

Don’t let the naysayers get you down. It’s a work in progress. I am typically one who wants answers from photographs. I want them to be descriptive and to explain everything, hence the limited depth to my own work. I like your idea of building the puzzle of connections through additional images. It forces me to ask questions along the way.

Looking at one photograph and trying to figure out the whole thing is like looking at one tree and trying to figure out a whole forest. To some, it’s just a tree. But, once the whole forest is revealed (What? You mean a forest is more than just a bunch of trees?), one begins to appreciate the richness and diversity that’s there.

Good luck and keep us informed.

Thank you so much for your reaction, Terry. You understand what I’m trying to do. Thanks.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 20, 2020, 06:46:11 am
There is always one 😂
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: petermfiore on January 20, 2020, 07:07:58 am
Hi Ivo,

I applaud your quest to place content at the center of your project. Too often "pretty" is thought of as the highest level of Art. You may also substitute well crafted.  People always denounce work that bends the brain. Stick with your plan and It will be a body of work that is uniquely yours. Whether you succeed or not, it's solely in your hands.

Peter
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 20, 2020, 07:11:33 am
Hi Ivo,

I applaud your quest to place content at the center of your project. Too often "pretty" is thought of as the highest level of Art. You may also substitute well crafted.  People always denounce work that bends the brain. Stick with your plan and It will be an body of work that is uniquely yours. Whether you succeed or not, it's solely in your hands.

Peter

Well put.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 20, 2020, 07:11:45 am
Hi Ivo,

I applaud your quest to place content at the center of your project. Too often "pretty" is thought of as the highest level of Art. You may also substitute well crafted.  People always denounce work that bends the brain. Stick with your plan and It will be an body of work that is uniquely yours. Whether you succeed or not, it's solely in your hands.

Peter

Thanks Peter.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 20, 2020, 07:12:49 am
There is always one 😂

3 and counting. 😬😬🤣
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: kers on January 20, 2020, 07:22:17 am
The book Congo, a history - written by David van Reybrouck is one of the best books i have ever read.
Also one of the saddest; the people of Congo suffer throughout that history and still do whoever is in charge...
Reality is often more surrealistic than you could ever imagine.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 20, 2020, 08:11:57 am
The book Congo, a history - written by David van Reybrouck is one of the best books i have ever read.
Also one of the saddest; the people of Congo suffers throughout that history and still do whoever is in charge...
Reality is often more surrealistic than you could ever imagine.

Thanks for the tip, I’ll check out the book
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: KLaban on January 21, 2020, 05:37:54 am
Ivo, your work is far removed from the 'camera club' and of course all the better for it. Choice of content is key and elevates the work above and beyond the confines of recreation and decoration all too often seen here.                         

You're a breath of fresh air, don't let the buggers grind you down.

;-)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: petermfiore on January 21, 2020, 06:28:54 am
Ivo, your work is far removed from the 'camera club' and of course all the better for it. Choice of content is key and elevates the work above and beyond the confines of recreation and decoration all too often seen here.                         

You're a breath of fresh air, don't let the buggers grind you down.

;-)

Absolutely!!!!

Peter
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 21, 2020, 06:48:46 am
Keith, Peter,

Thanks.......

Really thanks.

Ivo

 :)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: petermfiore on January 21, 2020, 06:58:55 am
I look forward to seeing where you take us.

Peter
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 21, 2020, 09:27:36 am
earlier today I went through all the images posted so far. I think it’s very interesting. I find a series of images with a narrative much more rewarding to go through than individual images. Also more challenging to shoot. I hope to see more and watch this project develop.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 21, 2020, 09:39:03 am
earlier today I went through all the images posted so far. I think it’s very interesting. I find a series of images with a narrative much more rewarding to go through than individual images. Also more challenging to shoot. I hope to see more and watch this project develop.

Thanks Martin,

Actually I’m doing research and setting up a travel schedule. Next stop is the Belgian Africa Museum in Tervuren in Brussels, then the Belgian coast, some homes of ex colonials etc.
And I plan to meet peoples from the DRC who live in Belgium.
Very exciting.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: RSL on January 21, 2020, 10:40:57 am
Looks like fun, Ivo. Good luck with it.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Slobodan Blagojevic on January 21, 2020, 11:51:19 am
... You're a breath of fresh air...

Indeed:
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: KLaban on January 21, 2020, 01:21:19 pm
Did someone fart?
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Rob C on January 21, 2020, 04:17:15 pm
Did someone fart?


Perhaps hospital food?

:-)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: KLaban on January 21, 2020, 05:17:31 pm

Perhaps hospital food?

:-)

 ;D

Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on January 26, 2020, 09:33:09 am
#1 August Lambertmon, co-founder of the AIA: association International Africain. (Co founder, together with Leopold 2)
#2 Missionary De Deken, after he returned from Nepal, he went to Kongo to christianize the natives. I wonder if he saw himself as he is cast in brons, heroically putting his knee on an inlander. This statue says more about the opinion in Belgium in that era than it says something about the man
#3 Baron Francis Dhanis, Started the Ivory war in east Kongo against the Zanzibari Swahili. Thanks to this victory,  Antwerp became ivory port N°1 in the world. Later Dhanis became a rubber baron.
#4 View on the entrepôt du Congo, a pack-house to store al the stolen traded ivory.

(At this stage, I’m not sure in what direction the series will evolve.. Colour, B&W, pure registration, or a more interpretive way of photographing,....)
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on January 26, 2020, 10:17:19 am
Nice Ivo.

It takes a while to find the direction and explore all the options. For my money I prefer colour but it’s your project and you will have the vision.

Any way we’ll done. It’s very interesting.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: RSL on January 26, 2020, 11:19:00 am
Good stuff. You're in a work area you understand, Ivo. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on February 02, 2020, 03:23:41 pm
‘La Cinquantenaire’ was a megalomaniac project of our second King Leopold II. Built with money from the free state congo it should be a commemorative for the 50st anniversary of the Belgian independence.
It hosts 3 museums. One of them is the museum of War.
On the top level of the arches men can find a room with a seldom collection of Napoleontic artifacts. You need to climb a spiral staircase to get there. On two intermediate landings the history of the building and inauguration of the parc is showcased. A statue of the contested king is still in place, but lights are dimmed.
Our colonial past is not digested.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on February 02, 2020, 03:36:36 pm
Same museum
1: King Leopold 2 and his soldiers.
2: A flag of the garde civique of the free state,  in state of dissolution but still showcased.
3: A commemorative for an officer who won battles in the war for,... well the spoils of war are clear.
4: not sure what to think
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Martin Kristiansen on February 03, 2020, 07:48:39 am
more than just interesting for me.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on February 03, 2020, 09:42:27 am
more than just interesting for me.

Well, initially I thought the Free State period was the darkest of the colonial past. It isn’t.
...

Pamflet of another epoch.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on February 08, 2020, 04:04:05 pm
Culinair artifacts.
Title: Re: Caoutchouc
Post by: Ivo_B on February 08, 2020, 04:23:04 pm
Costume taken from a revolting Arabian chef by Captain Rom and donated by his widow.