Luminous Landscape Forum
The Art of Photography => The Coffee Corner => Topic started by: marton on October 14, 2016, 08:42:39 pm
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(http://cdn.hiconsumption.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Leica-M-P-Grip-Camera-0-712x474.jpg)
http://petapixel.com/2016/10/12/leicas-new-limited-edition-camera-covered-ping-pong-paddle-rubber/
That'll be $15,000 please.
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If the cover lasts as long (I should say as short) as a Ping pong racquet, then it is a very bad idea
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To be fair once the novelty wears off you won't actually play ping pong using the camera all that much so it should last well. You sort of feel Leica knows at least one segment of its market well :)
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Even if they'd thought of keeping it black... you'd still get a great grip, just like Trump!
Rob
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Ping-pong paddle rubber needs to be changed quite often, as it hardens and looses its bounce and stickiness. I wonder if the rubber on this Leica can be easily peeled off and replaced with different surface for different shooting conditions. If you take it out for a spin, defensive or aggressive shooting assignments.
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Comical IMO. But meant to be displayed rather than used.
I'll admit here to owning a titanium & brown leather M6 TTL. But at least the leather is worn & darkened through years of use. (Got it from a photojournalist friend who took great joy in breaking it in.) :)
-Dave-
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Comical IMO. But meant to be displayed rather than used.
I'll admit here to owning a titanium & brown leather M6 TTL. But at least the leather is worn & darkened through years of use. (Got it from a photojournalist friend who took great joy in breaking it in.) :)
-Dave-
One of my all-time favorite Leicas, and one I was saddest to part with (in retrospect), was an M6 Titanium with black ostrich leather. Granted, the titanium was just a finish, but the dark silver gray was a perfect complement to the texture and color of the ostrich leather cover. It was matched with a 35 f1.4 Summilux.
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Having been a little snarky about the camera if it gives the owner joy then it's worth it. I am also guilty. I don't need a Jaguar but I have one and I really should sell it but it's too lovely although being 20 years old is getting a bit unreliable. But I love driving it (just not too far) and it only cost £880 :)
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If really used, it would become very dirty soon. I can't image how to clean it effectively.
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Ping-pong paddle rubber needs to be changed quite often, as it hardens and looses its bounce and stickiness. I wonder if the rubber on this Leica can be easily peeled off and replaced with different surface for different shooting conditions. If you take it out for a spin, defensive or aggressive shooting assignments.
I know a tiny specialist shop which refits table-tennis bats. Maybe there could be a camera refitter?
Edmund
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Really sad to see Leica leave the camera business to enter the bling business and then produce something this silly.
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I'd say Leica is in the camera business and the bling business. The latter helps underwrite the former. I strongly suspect that without the baubles the company wouldn't make enough bank to produce the tools.
-Dave-
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I'd say Leica is in the camera business and the bling business. The latter helps underwrite the former. I strongly suspect that without the baubles the company wouldn't make enough bank to produce the tools.
-Dave-
I think you're right; price removes many, but not all woking pros who can find alternative good stuff far less OTT in price. Which leaves the amateur with the funds, and the other option, the casual rich gadget-freak who might like the funny stuff better than anything else Leica makes that is seen as a serious bit of kit. None of this is to knock the company though; if it can market funny funky stuff, go for it - folks with no money but plenty of superior opinion aren't going to pay the bills for them.
Rob
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Their lenses still are the best available. But they never quite grasped the digital world. I used split-image rangefinder Leicas for many years, but automatic focusing in most modern digital cameras beats split-image hands down. I don't think Leica can catch up, so I guess you're right, Rob. They have to resort to producing jewelry, because they no longer can produce competitive cameras. It's sad. I'd love to have the modern equivalent of my much loved M4, but it ain't gonna happen.
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Their lenses still are the best available. But they never quite grasped the digital world. I used split-image rangefinder Leicas for many years, but automatic focusing in most modern digital cameras beats split-image hands down. I don't think Leica can catch up, so I guess you're right, Rob. They have to resort to producing jewelry, because they no longer can produce competitive cameras. It's sad. I'd love to have the modern equivalent of my much loved M4, but it ain't gonna happen.
Hi Russ,
I never owned a Leica, but did print from them quite often. Where, in your view, has the digitial M9-onwards range fallen down compard with the film versions?
I had imagined that with the new/replaced sensors they were good to go, or is it mainly, or even only, the lack of af (which you pointed out) that you see as the fatal flaw? Were I able to afford one without endangering the health of the banks that I use, I would probably still have to pass, I think, because of that lack of af. After a lifetime of manual focus, my personal optical system has had to admit defeat.
There is one very important additional factor for me: I do like to get a sense of DOF when I frame a shot, even if just an approximate one. Hence the reflex habit. Having been using my 2.8/180mm Nikkor wide open quite a lot recently, that's even more the case; DOF makes some shots.
Rob
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Really sad to see silly comments such as this. Leica have been making 'special editions' alongside their utilitarian cameras for decades.
And you base this on what exactly? Your extensive use of modern Leica Lenses and the best modern lenses available from other manufacturers?
And you base this on what exactly? Your extensive use of Leica digital cameras?
Hi Keith, Yes, I agree, Leica has been making silly edition cameras alongside their routine stuff ever since they got into digital.
I still use Leica DG lenses with my four-thirds Olympus Pen-F. Used them for years on the E-P1. Alternative lenses for the four-thirds bodies I've tried aren't as good. And yes, I use the best available Nikon lenses on my Nikons.
And I base my judgment regarding Leica's current stuff partly on the lack of autofocus, but also on their absurd prices for equipment that simply doesn't beat the other top-of-the-line digital stuff on the market. They're trading on their name rather than on the superior performance of their product. It makes me sad because I remember when I paid a bit more for my Leicas than for competitive equipment, but they were enough better than their competitors to make the difference in price reasonable. That's simply no longer true.
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Leica have been making 'special editions' alongside their utilitarian cameras for decades.
Making "special editions" is one thing, going Lunar is a completely different story. If you do not see the difference... Well, there's not much to discuss.
My first reaction to the OP was to ask a simple question: "Is there anything that Leica can do to become a laughing stock of the photography world, as Hasselblad became (albeit, thankfully, for a short period...) before them?"
But then I answered my question myself: "No" (so I didn't post anything). And it does seem that I was right.
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Rob, take it from someone who actually uses the equipment, wears specs and also has serious problems with vision - retinal TIAs and macular degeneration - the combination of rangefinder, liveview, LCD and EVF delivers flexibility and precision together with full visualisation of DOF.
P.S. The gravestone inscription could be of interest to another digital Leica M user here ;-)
Hello, Keith,
Yes, I know there's an EVF available, at very high price, and that you have access to LV etc. but that latter depends upon tripod use. The last time I used LV - the only time I can think of, in fact - was about two years ago when I made the snaps for the apartment sale effort. I didn't find it much use for focussing, really, because the old 1/3 way in was good enough (not using a tilt lens, just a 24mm stopped down quite far); the reason I used LV was to make sure I was getting everything in, as the 'prosumer' Nikons don't do 100% viewfinder coverage, unlike in the days of good film cameras from them. You made your pact with the powers of precise and carry a tripod; I made my pact with the gods of tripodless chance and that's how it goes. Having said which, those shots of yours of the blurred foreground blooms and the vases are exquisite, but I hope to do my stuff hand-held, which without af would be mission impossible, for me.
Rob
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Forgive me, I'm just a Newbie.
Keith, in fact, there was not one but two reasons for me not to reply to the OP.
One I already described.
Second, it was also quite obvious what kind of answer to expect from the rarefied air of stratospheric heights where Leica photographers dwell...
Keith, I know and respect your work, seen the images you posted to this thread in other threads, and liked them (e.g. this one: http://www.keithlaban.co.uk/Boy.jpg). Well, what can I say? It just makes you calling of this abomination "a special edition" even more sad...
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Shit, there was I thinking liveview works quite independently of whether the camera is mounted on a tripod or not. I often use it when handholding. Nearly all my 'street' work is shot using liveview and all handheld. Far from being expensive my EVF cost the princely sum of £125.
As I've said, I have serious visual problems and yet have only ever owned one AF camera. I don't miss it or desire it.
Yes, Keith, of course you can activate it, LV - you could do that probably in free fall with or without a parachute, in which case a tripod might actually turn out to be a hindrance; but it seems crazy to me to turn an expensive camera into nothing more than a cellphone.
320 quid for an EVF doesn't seem cheap to me - you were lucky to get a Leica one for one twenty-five! I do think you can use another maker's version, though.
;-)
Rob
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Rob, I'd reply, but the truth is I haven't a clue what it is you're saying.
What is it you think I'm doing that is in any way like using a cellphone?
Oh - holding it up out in front of you to see the rear screen. I used to try that with my cellphone and couldn't even see the image if I was outdoors. Maybe you can see the image on a real camera that way, but I have to have it up at my eye to feel right. Gotta blank out everything else to feel connected. Even using a WLF on the 500 Series wasn't on: always had the 45° prism fitted. BUT, but, having a tiny bit extra around the actual image, as per an old M-type seems a jolly good idea if working in a crowded area. Having said which, I wonder why they just used corner markings, and wanted you to guess where the rest of the sides were...
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Ah - Now I understand, you think I'm using the LCD screen as a viewfinder! Really, Rob, can you see me walking around with the camera held at arm's length chimping the rear screen?
When not using the rangefinder I use the EVF (electronic viewfinder) not the LCD (rear screen). What I see in the EVF viewfinder comes directly from the sensor, composition, focus, DOF. Focus is aided by normal magnification, or 5x or 10x magnification. Focus peaking is also enabled. Exposure and histogram can be monitored prior to capture.
I'd hazard a guess that at least half the contributors here on LuLa use EVF enabled cameras.
Well, it was a difficult concept to get my head around, but it's what I thought you meant.
As for the rest of the possibilities you mentioned, off a tripod they would stop me in my tracks. For me, in amateur mode, it's see, snap, move rapidly onwards. Anything more considered would keep me doing alternatives such as, well, more varnishing which, believe it or not, I still have not finished this year! I have the doings all out on the terrace, and had switched on the new washing machine on its rapid cycle (two hours, last time I tried it) and now, about twenty minutes past that magical pair of hours, it's still running! It mocks me. So, the varnishing of the kitchen shutters is still on hold, and the clouds are gathering above again, and the air will probably now be too damp to apply varnish. No wonder I sit and write or go out and wage visual war on the windows around me. What's left?
;-)
Rob
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Rob, why is it you think this wouldn't be possible with an EVF? This is exactly how I shoot 'street'. I'd go as far as saying this is how the majority now shoot 'street'.
I thought we'd discussed this many times off-list and that you had understood electronic viewfinders?
Hope the washing machine has finished.
But Keith, I do understand EVF; my point was, and has even been restated as reply to your question, that I had imagined, from your description, that you were looking at the rear screen as with a cellphone...
But in reality, an EVF on an M Leica is just an admission from Leica that the raw, basic - as in normal, unassisted - viewfinder isn't much cock. True, the prisms of my D200 and D700 are not very good at the best of times either, compared with the one on my F3, but with the excellent magnifier permanently fitted to both, the only real drawback is Rob C's own eyesight; trust him on that.
Yes, the washing machine's done its thing, but it ran half an hour longer than the previous rapid selection... no idea why. Also, I got half the inside surface of the kitchen shutters done! The next half and all of the outer faces of both halfs tomorrow, DV.
;-)
Rob
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Hi Keith, You're making it clear that you're like the rest of the modern Leica buffs. It's a religion. Has nothing much to do with photography. But I can understand it. I pretty much felt the same way about my M4. Wasn't quite as protective of my M2's reputation or of my IIIf's reputation, but the M4 was my baby. I wouldn't allow anyone to besmirch its reputation.
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I'm not a fan of Mr Eggleston, but on one point I support his attitude fully: take one snap and move on. Deliberation's for commerce, for covering your ass and letting the client feel he has an input when he 'helps' edit the work. Gut reaction is key. Trust it above all else in photography.
But back to the thread: wasn't it about daft, red camera skins rather than what lies beneath? For myself, I've repeatedly stated I'd love an M9 upwards, and at least two guys whose work I respect have told me it may not suit me. So, why still hanker? Because as I said elsewhere, it's part of the photo ritual I feel I missed out on (religion, then?), and this late in the day I would like to make amends to myself. But, not just at any cost.
;-)
Rob C
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I'm not a fan of Mr Eggleston, but on one point I support his attitude fully: take one snap and move on. Deliberation's for commerce, for covering your ass and letting the client feel he has an input when he 'helps' edit the work. Gut reaction is key. Trust it above all else in photography.
But back to the thread: wasn't it about daft, red camera skins rather than what lies beneath? For myself, I've repeatedly stated I'd love an M9 upwards, and at least two guys whose work I respect have told me it may not suit me. So, why still hanker? Because as I said elsewhere, it's part of the photo ritual I feel I missed out on (religion, then?), and this late in the day I would like to make amends to myself. But, not just at any cost.
;-)
Rob C
M8s are not very reliable, but very cheap. The problem is that they need good eyesight or a loupe to focus.
Edmund
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The cover looks like Judd Trump's shoes! Different, for sure.
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M8s are not very reliable, but very cheap. The problem is that they need good eyesight or a loupe to focus.
The 8.2 refresh is more reliable, shutter-wise anyway. My 8.2s are working fine & dandy, but I've become so fond of my little Panasonic GX8 that I haven't put 'em to work as much as I oughta. Focusing is fine in use, though the effective RF baselength is a little shorter than with most 35mm format Ms. A 90mm f/2 (~120mm "equivalent") used wide open at closer distances is pushing it similarly to the way a 135mm used the same way is pushing it on a "full frame" Leica. Some aspects of the UI are downright clunky. In aperture priority mode, for example, setting exposure compensation requires menu diving. Grrr… (This is fixed with more recent Ms.) So I use manual mode instead, which IMO feels more natural with an M camera.
-Dave-
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https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=martine%20franck%20imagenes&&form=IDIVXX
;-)
Rob
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There is no way to see DOF.
The irony of this for me is that most of the deliberately shallow DOF photos I've taken have been with rangefinders. I never use DOF preview on SLRs/mirrorless cameras either. Don't need it.
(The attached example pic is just one I have handy on my iPad. Zeiss Jena LTM 85/2 Sonnar stopped down a little.)
-Dave-
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Rules, exceptions... much of this depends, too, on the way we work and why.
I've noticed that for quite a long time now I am shooting almost wide open. Apart from the plasticity that that seems to give my pics, it's also a kind of reaction to professional life, where travel meant that clients wanted to see the benefits of the cost: in other words, if you want to go to an expensive beach, we want to see the sea and sand pretty damned clearly too... Hans Feurer would have had problems with some of my guys, as would Sarah Moon! Free of that (unfortunate sort of freedom, really), there's also the fact that shallow DOF helps concentrate both the mind and the message. Capa used to say that it your shots weren't good enough it was because you weren't close enough; I'd add that maybe you're are also shooting stopped down too far and confusing the issue you want to portray with too much background!
Rob
P.S.
Goodness, this is a lonely place this morning: only seventeen of us alive?
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And I base my judgment regarding Leica's current stuff partly on the lack of autofocus, but also on their absurd prices for equipment that simply doesn't beat the other top-of-the-line digital stuff on the market.
The autofocus on my Leica Q works just fine thank you... And the one on my Leica SL is equally good...
And besides that I assume you have used a Leica, Sony, Fuji, etc alongside each other to reach you expert conclusions...
Please continue to delight us with your detailed knowledge!
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Goodness, this is a lonely place this morning: only seventeen of us alive?
Could be the Americans who are also baseball fans were thoroughly spent after watching the amazing & thrilling Game 7 of the just-concluded Fall Classic (aka the World Series). One of the most intense & exciting games I've ever seen. Cubs win!! (First time in 108 years.)
Edit: Mike Johnston at The Online Photographer has a funny Onion-like satirical piece (http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2016/11/cubs-fans-morose-ot.html) on the Cubs ending their long drought. :D
-Dave-
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Could be the Americans who are also baseball fans were thoroughly spent after watching the amazing & thrilling Game 7 of the just-concluded Fall Classic (aka the World Series). One of the most intense & exciting games I've ever seen. Cubs win!! (First time in 108 years.)
Edit: Mike Johnston at The Online Photographer has a funny Onion-like satirical piece (http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2016/11/cubs-fans-morose-ot.html) on the Cubs ending their long drought. :D
-Dave-
Ah Dave, as with Brexit, sport's one of those things I shall never understand.
Grown men running around like small boys, and getting very rich the while. Injustice I tell you, a travesty of the natural order!
;-)
Rob
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Grown men running around like small boys, and getting very rich the while. Injustice I tell you, a travesty of the natural order!
;-)
Talent redistributing wealth from capital hoarders! If I were an economist of a certain bent I might look it it that way. :) Anyway I think baseball is becoming in the US more of a niche sport, not economically but in the national psyche, while the US version of football has supplanted it as "the national passtime."
-Dave-
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Talent redistributing wealth from capital hoarders! If I were an economist of a certain bent I might look it it that way. :) Anyway I think baseball is becoming in the US more of a niche sport, not economically but in the national psyche, while the US version of football has supplanted it as "the national passtime."
-Dave-
Baseball. Strikes me as a safer version of the game I used to play as a younger person in India: gilli dandu(a). It consisted of taking a piece of branch about three or four inches long (the size is based on youthful conceptions of size, where two inches could get you respect) and whittling it sharp at both ends. This done, you would strike one end of this short, sharp piece as it lay on the ground, using another piece of branch as club. This had the effect of forcing the short piece to spring upwards into the air. If it didn't immediately lodge itself in your eye, you would consequently strike it in mid-air and send it hurtling outwards towards the other players who would then attempt to catch this spinning machine in fight. What's a ball after that?
Old worlds, old ways...
Rob
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Just Googled "Gilli-danda" (as the internet spells it). Looks fun, especially if you've got protective eye wear (glasses since age 12 here). ;) In Scotland I learned how to play rounders before I even knew what baseball was. (In 1963 & '64 my mom and I spent the entire summer in & near Glasgow, Dad only showing up for a couple weeks at the end of September. Both times I went home with a thick brogue unintelligible to children & adults alike in my Detroit-area neighborhood. I have some movie footage of myself where I'm apparently speaking Scots dialect, but there's no sound!)
-Dave-
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Just Googled "Gilli-danda" (as the internet spells it). Looks fun, especially if you've got protective eye wear (glasses since age 12 here). ;) In Scotland I learned how to play rounders before I even knew what baseball was. (In 1963 & '64 my mom and I spent the entire summer in & near Glasgow, Dad only showing up for a couple weeks at the end of September. Both times I went home with a thick brogue unintelligible to children & adults alike in my Detroit-area neighborhood. I have some movie footage of myself where I'm apparently speaking Scots dialect, but there's no sound!)
-Dave-
Trust me: that's an advantage. Lip-reading is more accurate. I bet you didn't know at the time that I was only a few miles away! Knowing that might have changed your life. Or not. But I might have had a guitar lesson out of it...
;-)
Rob
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I bet you didn't know at the time that I was only a few miles away! Knowing that might have changed your life. Or not. But I might have had a guitar lesson out of it...
How 'bout that! :) It would've been a ukulele lesson if anything! I had a plastic one made by the Maccaferri company, started & owned by the fellow who designed the original Selmer "gypsy jazz" guitars later used by Django Reinhardt and other luminaries. Wish I still had it. But I do have a polystyrene Maccaferri guitar. Plays great and sounds kinda like a banjo would if a banjo had more bass response.
I've attached a photo of this morning's sunrise, not taken with a Leica. But it is a photo!
-Dave-
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How 'bout that! :) It would've been a ukulele lesson if anything! I had a plastic one made by the Maccaferri company, started & owned by the fellow who designed the original Selmer "gypsy jazz" guitars later used by Django Reinhardt and other luminaries. Wish I still had it. But I do have a polystyrene Maccaferri guitar. Plays great and sounds kinda like a banjo would if a banjo had more bass response.
I've attached a photo of this morning's sunrise, not taken with a Leica. But it is a photo!
-Dave-
A uke is still better than nothing. I'd have settled for that!
Regarding the picture: it's rather good, and clearly a 'photograph'.
;-)
Rob
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A uke is still better than nothing. I'd have settled for that!
I have a lovely old Martin uke at home. I've taken it on car trips but never on flights. If I start having "stringed instrument withdrawl" symptoms before leaving this gorgeous locale I might have to look into borrowing or renting a uke for a few days. There are a few of 'em around! ;)
-Dave-
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I have a lovely old Martin uke at home. I've taken it on car trips but never on flights. If I start having "stringed instrument withdrawl" symptoms before leaving this gorgeous locale I might have to look into borrowing or renting a uke for a few days. There are a few of 'em around! ;)
-Dave-
I'm reading Keth Richards' Life for the second time; he appears to have had a similar need as a child. Unfortunately, at twelve I had the black guitar (with chrome strike plate) but absolutely no musical talent. Now, I no longer have a guitar, and nothing else has changed very much on that side of life. ;-(
Rob
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I'm reading Keth Richards' Life for the second time; he appears to have had a similar need as a child. Unfortunately, at twelve I had the black guitar (with chrome strike plate) but absolutely no musical talent. Now, I no longer have a guitar, and nothing else has changed very much on that side of life. ;-(
Rob
I got an OP-1 a couple of years back, sometimes take it on train trips to play.
https://soundcloud.com/edmund-ronald
Edmund
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I got an OP-1 a couple of years back, sometimes take it on train trips to play.
https://soundcloud.com/edmund-ronald
That thing (the OP-1) is nifty! I enjoyed the sound clips & tunes too. :) I've got a handful of "soft" synths on my iPad. I particularly like Arturia's iSEM and the FunkBox rhythm machine. Moog makes a cool one called the Animoog, with a touchscreen version of a ribbon controller and "keys" you can slide your fingers along to create vibrato and (I think) other modulation effects.
-Dave-
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Life in the sticks can be so calming... no trains to speak of, no clickety-clicks, just the sweet sound of shotguns in the early morning blowing the hell out of little birds. Which latter, of course, get eaten.
Rob
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With my iPad gizmos I can make the sounds of shotguns firing, little birds screaming and even teeth chomping. But nothing & no-one gets killed or eaten. ;)
-Dave-
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That thing (the OP-1) is nifty! I enjoyed the sound clips & tunes too. :) I've got a handful of "soft" synths on my iPad. I particularly like Arturia's iSEM and the FunkBox rhythm machine. Moog makes a cool one called the Animoog, with a touchscreen version of a ribbon controller and "keys" you can slide your fingers along to create vibrato and (I think) other modulation effects.
-Dave-
I'll look at that - I'm a total zero as a musician - the thing I like about the op1 is all those buttons and keys- even more than on a camera :) I love fiddling with them, in fact I think I'm gonna go and get it now. It does connect to my iPad and Mac, but I find standalone use to be more fun. The thing even has a mic and an FM radio built in. The only thing I miss as a non-musician is velocity on the keys.
Just about "everybody" seem to have an op1, and I enjoy listening to the pieces they post. Here's the forum:
https://www.operator-1.com
There's an interesting piece of sound hardware called the NordDrum which I'd like to buy, it allows one to design percussive sounds. I' thinking of getting one to drive with the iPad. Speaking of iPads, here's a drum machine with an interesting interface.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCEnTCOiSDY
Edmund
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(Edited:)
The thing even has a mic and an FM radio built in. The only thing I miss as a non-musician is velocity on the keys.
Speaking of iPads, here's a drum machine with an interesting interface.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCEnTCOiSDY
Hehe, I find velocity response on synthesizers to be mostly a distraction. But I guess I work backwards to many folks outside the "EDM" genre: guitars used as pad and/or rhythm tracks, synths used to play lead (where even note-to-note response is your friend).
I've added the drum machine review to tonight's YouTube queue. Thanks!
-Dave-
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My little rocket to Mars is getting ever more rapid. Earth seems smaller and smaller.
Rob
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My little rocket to Mars is getting ever more rapid. Earth seems smaller and smaller.
Rob
Ground Control to Captain Rob ...
Edmund
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Ground Control to Captain Rob ...
Edmund
HELLO? Hello? hello? hello... hell
Rob
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I think this thread has about had it. :) But…for anyone still reading, and into sound synthesis as well as Leicas and/or ukuleles, Korg has just released an iOS version of the famed ARP Odyssey. It was ARP's response to the minimoog and is in some respects a more powerful instrument than the mini. I believe this one uses the same engine as Korg's recent hardware re-creation. From giving it a spin yesterday and again this morning, via earbuds, I'd say it sounds really nice. As I haven't played an actual '70s Odyssey in decades I can't say how authentic it is, but IMO this is a good thing as I can just approach it as an instrument unto itself. (I have a real minimoog as well as some software versions. The latter are all in the "close but definitely no cigar" category, which I find annoying and so rarely use 'em.)
I've attached a screen grab of my favorite factory patch.
-Dave-
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HELLO? Hello? hello? hello... hell
Rob
Great. Now I've got Space Oddity stuck in my head.
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Great. Now I've got Space Oddity stuck in my head.
Could be worse: could be photography!
Rob
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Could be worse: could be photography!
Rob
It's still stuck in my head. lol
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Try listening to Ashes To Ashes as an aural palette cleanser. :)
-Dave-
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Hi Keith, You're making it clear that you're like the rest of the modern Leica buffs. It's a religion. Has nothing much to do with photography. But I can understand it. I pretty much felt the same way about my M4. Wasn't quite as protective of my M2's reputation or of my IIIf's reputation, but the M4 was my baby. I wouldn't allow anyone to besmirch its reputation.
I totally get this; I have never ever been quite so in love with a camera as with my M4, though I had been shooting with Leicas since my first IIIf red-dial, and I recall very fondly the look of awe on my exclusively-Nikon-using friend's face when she first clicked the shutter on my M4. I would describe it as almost orgasmic. Actually, the word "click" is far too harsh in describing the sound of the leica shutter release.
Though I have been shooting digitally for many years now, never with a Leica. I tried the m8 for a few minutes; it just wasn't a "Leica". Truth be told, I have never been really happy with any digital camera I have owned. They're just not my M4.
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I believe that part of the problem with modern cameras is that there's no sense of film, and of the things ever being loaded.
Add the idea that it isn't costing you fresh (or old, if you're lucky) money to go click, and there's a sort of consequential, subliminal sense of little value in anything that gets snapped.
I have to add, in fairness, that were I paying for film, I'd probably have stopped shooting years ago. What would be the point? In fact, I'm positive that it's the false sense of 'free' that has made photography so widespread today. There's still little point, but folks don't think about it because they do not make themselves aware of the fact via the pocket.
When you realise that one person's image is just as viable as the next person's image...
Rob
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Add the idea that it isn't costing you fresh (or old, if you're lucky) money to go click, and there's a sort of consequential, subliminal sense of little value in anything that gets snapped.
Yes, I feel this is a genuine thing. I think of it less in terms of cost and more in terms of capability & ease-of-use. I've likely said something like this before here: when you can do nearly anything, the value of doing any particular thing drops. I feel this not just in photography but in my other favorite pursuits too. It's a kind of over-satiation. I recently returned from a thoroughly enjoyable vacation in Hawai'i. Looking back on it I'm struck by how seamless and easy the whole thing was. Shouldn't getting to a small group of islands in the middle of the Pacific be kinda difficult? Apparently not. Do I really need to be able to shop at Target or Macy's while there and feel "at home" in doing so? Apparently so. (I bought an Ethernet cable extender at Target and three sharp Honolulu-made Aloha shirts at Macy's. Aside from the shirts that Target and Macy's could've been anywhere in the US.) Does one small-ish tourist town need first class Japanese, Indian, Vietnamese and Hawai'ian restaurants? (Ahi tuna, grilled medium rare with asparagus and sprinkled with a light coconut-based sauce: to die for.) Well, yeah!
I feel that on many levels we're kinda maxing ourselves out. Our ability to make and do stuff is running ahead of our ability to take it all in and absorb it. I suspect this will push us, as a species, in the direction of being able to process more faster. If not push us over the edge. ;)
-Dave-
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Dear me, I suppose you are correct if you measure everything in monetary terms. But many people invest time, thought, imagination and energy into their pursuits. Certainly many contributors here invest far more than money into their creations. I think many of Rob's comments are along those lines when sharing his professional experiences.
Then again I could be wrong, I often am.
Mike
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I believe that part of the problem with modern cameras is that there's no sense of film, and of the things ever being loaded.
Add the idea that it isn't costing you fresh (or old, if you're lucky) money to go click, and there's a sort of consequential, subliminal sense of little value in anything that gets snapped.
I have to add, in fairness, that were I paying for film, I'd probably have stopped shooting years ago. What would be the point? In fact, I'm positive that it's the false sense of 'free' that has made photography so widespread today. There's still little point, but folks don't think about it because they do not make themselves aware of the fact via the pocket.
When you realise that one person's image is just as viable as the next person's image...
Rob
It's that very thing I've consistently had lingering thoughts about where my own photography is concerned. For a long period now it's unavoidable for me even when looking at work by photographers I hold in very high esteem.
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It's that very thing I've consistently had lingering thoughts about where my own photography is concerned. For a long period now it's unavoidable for me even when looking at work by photographers I hold in very high esteem.
I guess that when something becomes easy to do, and it's personal as against being made for somebody else, then there's a loss of judgemental capability concerning the thing being produced. It goes something like this: "I want to do it: that's good enough, so I'll do it because I can." However, once done, there's no external measure applied to gauge success or failure to meet expectations. That leaves room for doubt, and after a while, doubt becomes a way of life and reduces the joy in the activity.
Sadly, it's back, once again, to Terence Donovan's quotation about the most difficult thing for the amateur being finding a reason to make a photograph. As a retired pro, it's exactly where I've found myself ever since retirement. On the one hand it fills time, but on the other, one can't escape the realisation that it's really been a waste of that precious time.
In essence, photography, even as life, requires genuine purpose.
Rob
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I guess that when something becomes easy to do, and it's personal as against being made for somebody else, then there's a loss of judgemental capability concerning the thing being produced. It goes something like this: "I want to do it: that's good enough, so I'll do it because I can." However, once done, there's no external measure applied to gauge success or failure to meet expectations. That leaves room for doubt, and after a while, doubt becomes a way of life and reduces the joy in the activity.
Sadly, it's back, once again, to Terence Donovan's quotation about the most difficult thing for the amateur being finding a reason to make a photograph. As a retired pro, it's exactly where I've found myself ever since retirement. On the one hand it fills time, but on the other, one can't escape the realisation that it's really been a waste of that precious time.
In essence, photography, even as life, requires genuine purpose.
Rob
Can't argue with that.
It's a fascinating situation when you put it like that. On the one hand 'photography as art' keeps one shooting, even though the results are as ephemeral as conceptual art, and you just keep thinking about it trying to find solid ground upon which to stand, and it is very hard to find. On the other hand, as a person who just can't stop photographing things, it's not like there's a choice. Ultimately, photography is a very bizarre way to spend time.