Luminous Landscape Forum
Equipment & Techniques => Medium Format / Film / Digital Backs – and Large Sensor Photography => Topic started by: maxs on March 25, 2016, 05:40:54 pm
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Someone on this forum was/is selling their CFV-50c and when I inquired why they said because the heard the CFV-100 was coming out next month.
This person was in China. I wonder if they know something we don't !
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Many people on this forum think they know things "we" don't.
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+1 ...Many more even invent subjects with no real benefit behind the "discussion" too...
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It's safe to say that a whole lot of people know things I don't :(
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A friend of mine told me, that ...a friend of his told him, that in John Mayall's song "Looking back" the lyrics are like this... "I was looking back to see, if she was looking back to see, if I was looking back at.... her!"
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A friend of mine told me, that ...a friend of his told him, that in John Mayall's song "Looking back" the lyrics are like this... "I was looking back to see, if she was looking back to see, if I was looking back at.... her!"
Well, I do like your musical reply, Theo. Here is a link for the crowd. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWGJBXQFTlM
May I raise with "Don't worry, be Happy"? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2Q2MZfBuW4
Edmund
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I would be surprised if there isn't a CFV-100 coming relatively soon. :P
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selling a back to fund an upgrade makes perfect sense
selling a back (which is probably used for your job) before an upgrade is even announced, let alone released - doesnt make much sense to me
but then I cant afford to have a bunch of digital backs kicking around
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Well for some it might be worth a lot to get a few thousand more for their old back. It is sure that after a 100mp is announced the 50 will be worth close to nothing.
Christopher Hauser
[email protected]
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Has Edmund's account been hijacked by an imposter?
;)
Fear not, I still have all my teeth and they be sharp :)
Edmund
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IF there's a V mount 100mp back, it'll be interesting.
Given the steal of a price point of the -50c back, I would expect a -100c to list for $20k. No point to discount as Phase has said they won't release one.
-Joe
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It's not a matter of if, but when. Based on current delivery times on the Phase back, if Hasselblad announces in April, expect delivery in August. Unless Hasselblad uses a different chip than the current Sony chip that Phase One is using.
And if Hasselblad follows the pricing on the 100MP that they did on the 50MP, yes, you can expect it to be less than current Phase One offerings.
Really not too much new. The release of the 50c had very little if any effect on the pricing of the IQ250. It did possibly bring about the IQ150, but even it was only around 4K or so less than the IQ250.
Paul C
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It is sure that after a 100mp is announced the 50 will be worth close to nothing.
Christopher Hauser
[email protected]
I hope so ;D Nothing is just about in my budget range.
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Someone on this forum was/is selling their CFV-50c and when I inquired why they said because the heard the CFV-100 was coming out next month.
This person was in China. I wonder if they know something we don't !
Are the old lenses good enough ? or, Is this about the size of the sensor ?
Best regards
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I stopped using the V System when I moved to the P65+ for the reason of lenses, build tolerances and viewfinder. The H was better in every way.
But a full frame 50c would be superb.
The rumour mill also suggests a new V/500 type Blad too though - at this point your guess is as good as any of ours.
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Hi,
I have shot some test with shifts on the Sony A7rII. This gives me an image area like 48x37. Distagon 60 OK, Planar 100/3.5 very good. Much better image quality than from the P45+ with the same lenses. The main advantage is much cleaner resolution, without artefacts.
I wouldn't expect really great corners with Distagons and the Planar 120/4 Macro at long distances.
Best regards
Erik
Are the old lenses good enough ? or, Is this about the size of the sensor ?
Best regards
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Erik,
I have shot some test with shifts on the Sony A7rII. This gives me an image area like 48x37. Distagon 60 OK, Planar 100/3.5 very good. Much better image quality than from the P45+ with the same lenses. The main advantage is much cleaner resolution, without artefacts.
What I think, right now, is that the P45+ still yields a tiny advantage in image quality over the Sony A7rII (http://forum.luminous-landscape.com/index.php?topic=95556.msg871933#msg871933).
Contradiction?
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Hi Rob,
No contradiction at all. Here I was using a T&S adapter on the Hasselblad lens and stitching, that gives an image area of around 48x36 mm, around the same as the P45+ (at 49x37 mm), but with 82 MP resolution. Here I use the same lens on the P45+ and on the A7rII, but due to stitching I also have the same area. Now, the P45+ is 1.1x crop. So scaled up to full size it would correspond to 100 MP.
The Sony sensor on the A7rII is probably very similar to the coming CFV-100 sensor. So, stitched Sony A7rII images can be used as a pretty good predictor of how well lenses work on the A7rII.
Now, check the attached image, the left one is shot with the P45+ and the right one on the a7rII. Same lens, same FOV, but three exposures. What I think you can see that the image on the right is much cleaner.
The next image shows the same crop, but the A7rII image has been downscaled to P45+ pixel dimensions. Again this is pretty much the same thing as taking the same image with the CFV-100 at 100 MP and scaling down to 39MP. The scaled image is still much better, because it has real resolution instead of aliased detail.
The lens used here was the Planar 100/3.5, that is known as a very sharp lens. I am pretty sure it is also very sharp on the CFV-100.
Best regards
Erik
Erik,
Contradiction?
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Thanks Erik - I did wonder if I had missed something obvious.
In the second quote in my previous post, was your comment made with respect to single-shot comparison between the two cameras?
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Hi Rob,
Yes, it was a single shot comparison. Or rather, I was shooting with both cameras and compared the results.
Now, a few months have passed since that comparison and I have also shot some thousands new images. To that comes that I got two Canon zooms for the Sony, the 16-35/4L and the 24-105/4L. I don't do a lot of comparisons between the Hasselblad/P45+ and the A7rII but in the latest (single) shots I did compare I would say the Sony wins.
Here are the tests I made with the shift adapter: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/H_CF_Lenses_on_A7rII/
And here are some recent images from a shooting challenge I have accepted: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Articles/WeldonChallenge/
In the "WeldonChallenge" shots the Sony images are underexposed. I payed to much attention to Sony histograms. That underexposure doesn't matter much, but should be mentioned for completeness.
Best regards
Erik
Thanks Erik - I did wonder if I had missed something obvious.
In the second quote in my previous post, was your comment made with respect to single-shot comparison between the two cameras?
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Hmm I doubt there will be a CFV-100 at all. I distinctly remember a few forum users who told me they didn't like to use 60mp backs (or more) on their V system due to problems with focussing and that the old lenses were not really up to the task. Wouldn't a 100mp back make all that worse? I think that would be a huge problem for Hasselblad..
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Hmm I doubt there will be a CFV-100 at all. I distinctly remember a few forum users who told me they didn't like to use 60mp backs (or more) on their V system due to problems with focussing and that the old lenses were not really up to the task. Wouldn't a 100mp back make all that worse? I think that would be a huge problem for Hasselblad..
If Hassy wanted to bring back the V in a modernised version, they could ...
Edmund
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In my own experience, chosen carefully, some - but certainly not all - of the old V system lenses perform very well on a 60 Mp full frame sensor. I haven't heard many complaints about the CFV-50c crop sensor back (which has essentially the same pixel pitch as the new 100 Mp CMOS sensor), and lenses like the 40/4 IF, 100/3.5 and 180/4 (not to mention the Superachromats) stay pretty sharp out to the corners on the full frame sensor. I would think that diffraction will quickly eat into any additional gains in resolution one would realize by stepping up from 60 Mp to 100 Mp, in any case. Whether Hasselblad perceives a viable market for a full format CMOS to mate with the old 500 series bodies that are still in use, well, I guess we'll find out soon enough...
John
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There is a rumour going around about an all new V series with an EVF in place of the ground glass.
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There is a rumour going around about an all new V series with an EVF in place of the ground glass.
While it seems unlikely, it would be cool as you could make manual-focusing helpers that way. At the same time it would remove some of the classic feel of the system, so I don't know if it would attract buyers. Would it?
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It would attrack me. Perhaps because I propossed it in Lula last year. Using NFC or something alike to connect the back to the VF or DGG. 8)
While it seems unlikely, it would be cool as you could make manual-focusing helpers that way. At the same time it would remove some of the classic feel of the system, so I don't know if it would attract buyers. Would it?
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I agree with John's comment. I used a Credo 60 with various 50x bodies and a Flexbody. My lenses range from 30–250mm and produced great results. Focusing required care and liveview made that easier.
Roger
In my own experience, chosen carefully, some - but certainly not all - of the old V system lenses perform very well on a 60 Mp full frame sensor. I haven't heard many complaints about the CFV-50c crop sensor back (which has essentially the same pixel pitch as the new 100 Mp CMOS sensor), and lenses like the 40/4 IF, 100/3.5 and 180/4 (not to mention the Superachromats) stay pretty sharp out to the corners on the full frame sensor. I would think that diffraction will quickly eat into any additional gains in resolution one would realize by stepping up from 60 Mp to 100 Mp, in any case. Whether Hasselblad perceives a viable market for a full format CMOS to mate with the old 500 series bodies that are still in use, well, I guess we'll find out soon enough...
John
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old lenses were not really up to the task. Wouldn't a 100mp back make all that worse?
But then the new Sony CMOS sensor also has a considerably larger sensor area. Less enlargement would therefore be needed for a given print size. Optical deficiencies of older lenses should be less noticeable.