50MP Canon 5DS/R spec leaked

[drevil]

Maybe Canon see´s Nikon as their main competitor for this range, but I think this is an error

i remember quite some years ago canon said they dont fear nikon but sony for their financial power, they bought minolta and wanted it to succeed, many years their cameras were quite disappointing, but recently their cameras became quite decent.

after my sony dsc-t1 in 2004 i never thought again about buying a sony cam, that was until the A7 series came along, even thought i havent took the order yet, but they are sexy for sure.

sony is a threat for the both of them, canon and nikon

[Joe Towner]

No need to take bets. Phase One has always supported every (pro) Canon.

If your question is based on the fact that Phase One doesn't support competitive medium format systems, the answer is this is not medium format. It's a 35mm camera with more pixels.

Support for new cameras has, historically, been added to Capture One Pro 1-3 months after the camera ships. I have no reason to expect any different for this camera. That would point to a July-September timeframe.

Timeframe varies based on how different the sensor is from previous sensors, whether the manufacturer gets a camera to Phase earlier-than-launch (usually not), and what cycle C1 is in when they get the camera (i.e. if they get it a day after they've just released a new version then it might be longer than if they get it two weeks before the planned launch for a new version).

Sometimes raw support is provided before tethered support. This is especially true when a new tethering protocol is used. Given Canon's switch to USB3 with this model, and some of the ongoing issues with 35mm dSLR USB3 drivers and OSX and power (see also Nikon D800), I suspect this might be the case this time.

Of course, it's all just wild speculation (predicated on past experience and knowledge of the process, but speculation none the less).

It will be interesting to see what they can come up with in tuning for the sensor.  One thing is for sure, they'll find out more than most of us want to know about the sensor deep down, and how it compares to the Sony 50mp CMOS.

[Chris Livsey]

sony is a threat for the both of them, canon and nikon

The legacy lenses have been the big two's asset, keep upgrading bodies to use with your lenses. Sony with adapter friendly, maybe not cover glass friendly, for all, is the new big threat along with the mirrorless and modular interiors that are cheap to build, and sell, but accurate, less to align.
The upgrade market is limited, despite the forum chatter, other than the sensor there is nothing innovative here to tempt a non Canon SLR user to buy into the system and sell them lenses. They are marketing to a diminishing customer base where what they own already is good enough. An average user
doesn't care about colour accuracy they want "nice" colour baked in, arguably Fuji lead there.

[Stefan.Steib]

Um, the camera isn't shipping until JUNE. Assuming it ships on time.

I'll lay heavy bets the Sony 50MP ships months sooner...

That is what I also suspect. Sony is now delivering like Apple. Both are consumer electronics companies.
They know it is more effective to annouce and deliver in one run.

Further:

And somehow I wonder that the controlling of Canon doesn´t pull the plug on all this mirror stuff.
It must be pretty expensive to have a camera with 6-7x more parts, 10x as many different screws and a assembly time for production
of rougly 3-5 times than a Sony A7 ?

The earnings at Sony , even if they do more research and give higher rebates after the product cycle runs out, must be double or triple per camera I suspect !

So: why is Canon (and Nikon) doing this ? To (non)compensate for the disappearing compact cameras ? Save money by keeping the old technology ?

Greetings from Germany
Stefan

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi,

The cover glass is really a non issue with DSLR lenses. Sony uses around 2mm of cover glass like anybody else. The exception is 4/3 that has settled on around 4mm, but 4/3 lenses are not meaningful large sensor cameras anyway.

With many lenses made for rangefinder cameras the cover glass is causing astigmatism, but it is only one the issues, the others are lens cast and cross talk. Leica even developed a sensor of their own for those lenses and they may have given up some image quality making those pixels shallow. My impression is that ful well capacity may be lower than say Nikon D750. Life is a compromise and so is sensor design…

Best regards
Erik

Sony with adapter friendly, maybe not cover glass friendly, for all, is the new big threat along with the mirrorless and modular interiors that are cheap to build, and sell, but accurate, less to align.

[eronald]

So: why is Canon (and Nikon) doing this ? To (non)compensate for the disappearing compact cameras ? Save money by keeping the old technology ?

Canon and Nikon have only one -but invisible- asset - user inertia motivated by user's belief that it is cheaper to keep using their old lenses than to buy into a new system. Bringing in mirroless quickly would be like puncturing a cellophane wrapper - once punctured it desintegrates.

Edmund

[BernardLanguillier]

Canon and Nikon have only one -but invisible- asset - user inertia motivated by user's belief that it is cheaper to keep using their old lenses than to buy into a new system. Bringing in mirroless quickly would be like puncturing a cellophane wrapper - once punctured it desintegrates.

Well, there is inertia, but there is also...
- the fact that today high end DSLRs, such as the D810, 1DX,... remain the best image making machines available in terms of image quality and shooting enveloppe,
- the best lenses are only available in EOS/F mount,
- Profoto and many other key "accessories" manufacturers only ship their most appealing hardware for Canon and Nikon (think B1,...),
-...

Today, the only tangible advantage of an a7r I see is compactness.

If I were to start from scratch today I would buy exactly the equipment I currently own.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Jim Kasson]

Today, the only tangible advantage of an a7r I see is compactness.

We live in a new golden age of manual focus lenses. The Zeiss 135 f/2 Apo Sonnar ZF.2, the 15mm f/2.8 Distagon ZF.2, the Otii, the Coastal Optical 60mm f/4, etc. These lenses are not much fun to use on DSLRs. It used to be that there were focusing aids in the finders. No more. The only way to achieve critical focus is with live view, and, with no EVF, that means putting the camera on a tripod. With the alpha 7 cameras, you have more options: magnified view in the EVF, and focus peaking, with and without magnification. Magnified view is especially useful in combination with in-body image stabilization (IBIS), because the image doesn't jump around in the finder.

Jim

[Gel]

It seems as if every camera is missing something. The A7II has IBIS but only a single card slot. The 5Dr, high resolution but no comparable high dynamic range.

I like the A7II on paper. I wouldn't even mind using Sony glass if they had a decent 2.8 zoom.

[ErikKaffehr]

Hi Jim,

Yes, I would just add that we cannot put a Canon lens on a Nikon Body. I also feel EVF is critical. If Sony comes out with a 50 MP camera with EFCS, I will probably buy. Would like a proper OLP filter, though…

Best regards
Erik

We live in a new golden age of manual focus lenses. The Zeiss 135 f/2 Apo Sonnar ZF.2, the 15mm f/2.8 Distagon ZF.2, the Otii, the Coastal Optical 60mm f/4, etc. These lenses are not much fun to use on DSLRs. It used to be that there were focusing aids in the finders. No more. The only way to achieve critical focus is with live view, and, with no EVF, that means putting the camera on a tripod. With the alpha 7 cameras, you have more options: magnified view in the EVF, and focus peaking, with and without magnification. Magnified view is especially useful in combination with in-body image stabilization (IBIS), because the image doesn't jump around in the finder.

Jim

[Jim Kasson]

If Sony comes out with a 50 MP camera with EFCS, I will probably buy. Would like a proper OLP filter, though…

They are currently out of fashion.

Jim

[jduncan]

Further:

And somehow I wonder that the controlling of Canon doesn´t pull the plug on all this mirror stuff.
It must be pretty expensive to have a camera with 6-7x more parts, 10x as many different screws and a assembly time for production
of rougly 3-5 times than a Sony A7 ?

For me, this is spot on an a reason that companies will have to push for mirrorless, even more price pressure slowly mounts.
From Nikon experience we have the D600 debacle (relate to moving parts) plus now the D750 issue (assembly).
And the number of parts, and moving parts gets compound with complex non robot friendly structure that requieres "experts hands".

In fewer words : Mass produce, rentable, competitive with mirror-less  DSLRs are a very tall call to made.

Best regards, 
 

[BJL]

And somehow I wonder that the controlling of Canon doesn´t pull the plug on all this mirror stuff.

It might be coming (I hope so), but I can see some good, non-cynical, reasons why Canon and Nikon for now cling to their flapping mirror optical viewfinder systems.  The clearest is the fact that the auto-focus systems available with non-SLR bodies do not (for now) work as well with their many existing lenses that use ring-style (USM, AF-S, SWM, HSM) auto-focus motors, particularly for continuous tracking focus and low-light situations.

I am sure there are also more purely financial considerations: balancing the extra cost of developing and deploying new technology against the extra net revenues that such an investment would need to promise.  Looking ahead, the Big Two do seem to be woking on those technologies, by developing both in-sensor PDAF technologies and offering a few lenses with linear stepper AF motors.

[Atina]

I wonder how has Ken Rockwell already got his hands on the camera and manage to make a few product shots:

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/5ds.htm

He already named it “The World's Best DSLR”.

[eronald]

I like Ken - I downloaded his Nikon AF guide once, and it was the only thing which helped me figure out the AF-S settings on my D3x.

Actually, he does a good job of saying what is there and not there, based on the specs, IMHO.

And the "world's best dSLR" does not mean "the world's best camera" anymore

Edmund

[Telecaster]

We live in a new golden age of manual focus lenses. The Zeiss 135 f/2 Apo Sonnar ZF.2, the 15mm f/2.8 Distagon ZF.2, the Otii, the Coastal Optical 60mm f/4, etc. These lenses are not much fun to use on DSLRs. It used to be that there were focusing aids in the finders. No more. The only way to achieve critical focus is with live view, and, with no EVF, that means putting the camera on a tripod. With the alpha 7 cameras, you have more options: magnified view in the EVF, and focus peaking, with and without magnification. Magnified view is especially useful in combination with in-body image stabilization (IBIS), because the image doesn't jump around in the finder.

What Jim says, plus: for manual focus lens junkies, in my case with a particular interest in 1930s–70s 135 format designs, EVF cameras are exactly what the doctor ordered. With the exception of a few 50mm Zeiss & Nikon rangefinder lenses, which lack focusing helicals, everything I've accumulated over the past ~35 years is back in play. Kid in candy store time!

-Dave-

[Chris Livsey]

. With the exception of a few 50mm Zeiss & Nikon rangefinder lenses, which lack focusing helicals, everything I've accumulated over the past ~35 years is back in play. Kid in candy store time!

-Dave-

Dave, Amedeo adapters allow the Nikon/Contax rangefinder mounts to adapt to Leica -M. Leica M then to Sony, yes two adapters but you are manual focussing. They accept both internal mount, and external mount and are beautifully made, I have the Nikon RF version. The helical is precise and smooth.
http://www.amedeo.muscelli.net/

[eronald]

Here is what the eoshd fanboys have to say:

Canon 5DS takes a backwards step for video – severe rolling shutter, moire and lack of uncompressed HDMI

Edmund

[eronald]

As an analyst, my take on the 5D3 is that there now is severe infighting between the pro video and prosumer dSLR divisions of Canon, and rather than merge them or allow them to really compete against each other, management has decided to force them to coexist in separate watertight market compartments. This means that the still products are voluntarily castrated, with all but the most basic video capabilities voluntarily removed.

One nasty side effect is that stills and video at Canon now seem to use different chip tech, thereby losing the economy of scale which is so essential in the semiconductor industry

This internal infighting at Canon and its effect on the product range is reminiscent of the issue IBM had at integrating the PC division with the rest of the company. The results at IBM were pretty horrible, I don't think the tides will stop for Canon either.

Edmund

[Chris Livsey]

Dave, Amedeo adapters allow the Nikon/Contax rangefinder mounts to adapt to Leica -M. Leica M then to Sony, yes two adapters but you are manual focussing. They accept both internal mount, and external mount and are beautifully made, I have the Nikon RF version. The helical is precise and smooth.
http://www.amedeo.muscelli.net/

Bad form to self quote but an update shows a new adapter for both Contax and Nikon RF mounts internal and external to Sony mount
https://cameraquest.com/amedeo%20nrf%20crf%20se.htm
A friend in Vancouver reports the 35mm f1.8 Nikon works on it which would not on the previous combination.