Gaza's on-going Palestinian civilians Killing

[stamper]

Bernard,

Have I missed your anguished posts here bemoaning the loss of life in Syria (enormously greater than in Gaza) over the last two years? Or do you only become upset when Israel is involved?

Just curious.

Jeremy

Jeremy this thread is about Gaza....did you miss that?

[Ray]

Right... Israel critics must be either emotional, hysterical or irrational. There is no way that a sane, rational, and educated person could think, let alone say, something critical of Israel, God forbid.

The State Department condemned Israel’s strike on a United Nations school in Gaza, saying it was “appalled” by this “disgraceful” act. UN called it "criminal." Were they also emotional, hysterical or irrational?

An excellent example of an irrational response to my comment, Slobodan. Well done! 

[BernardLanguillier]

Have I missed your anguished posts here bemoaning the loss of life in Syria (enormously greater than in Gaza) over the last two years? Or do you only become upset when Israel is involved?

Just curious.

Jeremy,

That simply isn't very smart. For the record, I am offended to be called a racist by you.

Yes, I am upset by the current situation in Gaza but a pre-existing dislike of Israel is not a pre-requisite condition to be upset. As mentioned several times in this thread, I have a huge amount of respect for the historical cause of Jews and am not objecting the existence of the state of Israel. What about you Jeremy? I sure hope that you are upset as well by the many civilian causalities in Gaza, are you not?

To answer your "question". I am also upset about what happens in other parts of the world where innocents are being killed, such as Syria? Yes, of course, and I surely hope you are as well.

So why did I decide to write about Gaza and not about Syria. Well, I will answer you.
0. The visibility of the situation in Gaza in the world press is a lot higher which increased my awareness of the on-going disaster in Gaza,
1. Israel is a democratic state connected to the world and I believe that change in Israel can only come from inside. Further raising awareness about the way objective by-standers see the killing of children in Gaza must, somehow, trigger some questioning that may, some day, lead to a more humanitarian approach to problem resolution compared to the current F-16 based tactics,
2. Although there is certainly a religious dimension to the Syrian civil war, it is a very different situation compared to Gaza where a strongly dominated minority group is being bombed by a high tech army. It may not be very rationale, but there is a natural tendency to vote for the weak, even if some of them are guilty of wrong going too.

Why did you not start a thread about Syria Jeremy?

Cheers,
Bernard

[jjj]

Surely not, Slobodan. My writings on the observed change in perspective in the print on the wall, resulting from the use of lenses of different focal lengths, was scientifically sound and logically irrefutable. 

Irrefutably bonkers you mean. 

[Damon Lynch]

Photo 1: A weary young Palestinian boy sits on some dirty concrete steps in Gaza City. Photo taken on September 20, 2005. Assuming the boy is still alive today, he will have experienced three wars.

Photo 2: A CD called "Biblical Revenge" by Jewish extremist Dov Shurin sits on a rack in a music store in West Jerusalem, Israel. The album cover photo features Shurin with an Uzi automatic weapon slung over his right shoulder and a Hebrew Bible in his left hand. Songs on the album include "The Goyim Surround Me" and "He will rebuild The Temple". Shurin is a well known ultra-nationalist. He was born in the U.S. in 1949, emigrating to Israel in 1984, the same year Baruch Goldstein massacred 29 Palestinian Muslim worshipers and wounded another 125 in Hebron. Photo taken on September 08, 2005.

Photo 3: Hajj Ibrahim dances with Rabbi Froman at a wedding. Ibrahim Abu el-Hawa is a religious peacemaker. He is a Muslim living in East Jerusalem on the Mount of Olives. He embodies the principle of "love thy neighbour". Rabbi Menachem Froman (died March 4, 2013) was a remarkable religious peacemaker who defies all conventional descriptions and stereotypes. He lived on the settlement of Tekoa in the West Bank, yet Yasser Arafat called him his "brother" and he had extensive relations with religious Muslims, including those from Hamas. Indeed Sheikh Ahmad Yasin of Hamas famously said to Froman "with you we could make peace in 5 minutes". Ibrahim and Froman had been friends for many years, and at this time Ibrahim was a guest at the wedding of one of Rabbi Froman's daughters. Photo taken on November 14, 2005 in Tekoa, the West Bank, Palestine.

Photo 4: A small group of Palestinians walk by the Israel Security Wall in Bethlehem. At this point the wall is about 8 meters high. On the other side of this section the wall are Palestinian olive fields. Photo taken on September 30, 2005.

[Vladimirovich]

Have I missed your anguished posts here bemoaning the loss of life in Syria (enormously greater than in Gaza) over the last two years?

so true... shame on USA which, as usual, supports terrorists when that suits them 

[Vladimirovich]

It seems that anything can be had in Gaza if you have enough money...

that's universal

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Here is a heretic thought: would ISIS have so much success if Saddam were still in power?

[Vladimirovich]

Here is a heretic thought: would ISIS have so much success if Saddam were still in power?

and Assad not being undermined...

[PeterAit]

Here is a heretic thought: would ISIS have so much success if Saddam were still in power?

Interesting thought - and one of many reminders of the dismal failure that the US invasion of Iraq has ended up being. Get rid of the bad and you might end up with the worse. The US cannot control the world.

[Jeremy Roussak]

That simply isn't very smart. For the record, I am offended to be called a racist by you.

Not my word. I asked a question. You've given an answer, of sorts.

0. The visibility of the situation in Gaza in the world press is a lot higher which increased my awareness of the on-going disaster in Gaza,

The press you read must be jolly different from that in the rest of the world. Syria has had huge press coverage for long periods of time, most notably when there were allegations about Assad's use of chemical weapons and when the UK and US governments were deciding (despite Obama's "red line" speech) not to intervene in any way.

Why did you not start a thread about Syria Jeremy?

Because this is not an appropriate site for such a thread, and because online posturing accomplishes nothing: as an example of that, see the "bring back our girls" fiasco.

Jeremy

[Manoli]

Not my word. I asked a question.

No, not your words. Nevertheless, a charge that could quite easily be understood to be inferred from both the tone and manner in which the question was phrased.

So to allay any doubts, are you accusing Bernard of racism - to be even more specific, anti-semitism ?
A simple, one word answer - yes or no ?

[Jeremy Roussak]

No, not your words. Nevertheless, a charge that could quite easily be understood to be inferred from both the tone and manner in which the question was phrased.

So to allay any doubts, are you accusing Bernard of racism - to be even more specific, anti-semitism ?
A simple, one word answer - yes or no ?

No; and I don't accept that it would be possible to infer the accusation from my post.

As I've happily conceded in an earlier post on this thread, it's perfectly possible to harbour anti-Israel sentiments without being anti-semitic or racist. I was impliedly accusing Bernard of the former, as was blindingly obvious.

Jeremy

[RSL]

It's no use, Jeremy. Some minds have been infused with a virulent brand of propaganda that seems to be widespread in Europe and almost as widespread in the U.S. If you take history into account it's not hard to see from whence it comes nor to what it leads.

[BernardLanguillier]

No; and I don't accept that it would be possible to infer the accusation from my post.

As I've happily conceded in an earlier post on this thread, it's perfectly possible to harbour anti-Israel sentiments without being anti-semitic or racist. I was impliedly accusing Bernard of the former, as was blindingly obvious.

Not good enough Jeremy.

As you have just acknowledged, you are accusing me of having anti-Israel sentiments and that is obviously racist. So you are accusing me of racism.

Allow me to be extremely clear once more. I don't have anti-Israel sentiment.

Opposing the actions of Israel in Gaza does not require anti-Israel sentiments nor racism. The same way that opposing the unjustified Irak invasion by the US gov did not require anti-American sentiment. All it takes is an objective look at the situation.

You accusations are just shocking and utterly unacceptable Jeremy and only weaken your position as they paint you in very unfavorable light.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Jeremy Roussak]

As you have just acknowledged, you are accusing me of having anti-Israel sentiments and that is obviously racist. So you are accusing me of racism.

Drivel.

Allow to be extremely clear once more. I don't have anti-Israel sentiment.

Opposing the actions of Israel in Gaza does not require anti-Israel sentiments nor racism.

Posturing on the Internet about one variety of killing while having failed to comment on another, far worse, requires some kind of explanation. You have offered an explanation. It will satisfy some.

Jeremy

[mezzoduomo]

Time to shift gears: Who will be first to characterize the urgent US efforts to bring humanitarian relief to northern Iraq as nefarious or some sort of double game?

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

... Posturing on the Internet about one variety of killing while having failed to comment on another, far worse, requires some kind of explanation.

No, it doesn't.

Try arguing the same logic when stopped for speeding: "But, but... officer, while you are ticketing me, there are hundreds flying by even faster"

[BernardLanguillier]

It's no use, Jeremy. Some minds have been infused with a virulent brand of propaganda that seems to be widespread in Europe and almost as widespread in the U.S. If you take history into account it's not hard to see from whence it comes nor to what it leads.

There we go again.

At some point of time Russ, most smart people do a bit of introspection when Europe and a significant part of the US look at things in a certain way that differs from yours. In my attempts to be objective, I have acknowledges a terrible mistake I did in assessing the situation, which was to call it a genocide. I have amended that view because it didn't match reality. I don't see you make the slightest effort to be objective and that scares the hell out of me.

Let me ask you a very simple question, and I really would like you to answer for a change. Are there certain actions that the Israeli government could carry out that you would condemn as being unacceptable? If yes, what would these be? If no, I hope you realise it means that you are granting them a wildcard for any possible attrocity.

Finally, implying that disagreeing with the current actions of the Israel gov has a connection with historical facts to which Jews have been involved and may contribute to similar things happening again in the future is, again, utterly outrageous and irresponsible.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Time to shift gears: Who will be first to characterize the urgent US efforts to bring humanitarian relief to northern Iraq as nefarious or some sort of double game?

Ok, Mezzo, I'll bite: not surprised.
 
Every power, and especially a superpower, needs a bogeyman, a constant reminder of an evil enemy that justifies the constant state of war and actions that need no further explanation. For the US, it was communism for a number of lucky years. With its demise, there was an urgent need for replacement, and it was quickly found (or manufactured?) in terrorism. Then again, with Bin Laden dead, once again there is a bogeyman vacuum (btw, ever wondered why it took a newbie president to do so? - the other two were simply too smart to do that).

With withdrawals from Iraq and Afghanistan, military budget cuts, here and among allies... not good. Enter ISIS. All these years of bringing flowering democracy to Iraq, that was supposed to spread like a forest fire across the Middle East (or is "weed" a better metaphor? - I mean, it spreads faster and is more resilient), billions of dollars accounted and unaccounted for, hundreds of thousands dead, the towering "democracy" crumbled within days like a house of cards (one can argue it was built on one - remember the deck of cards distributed to every invading soldier with photos of 52 wanted Iraqis?).

One does not have to be too cynical to conclude that only an idiot, or amateur, or both, would allow this to happen. Unless one wanted that to happen.

Then again, humanitarian aid is not going to stop ISIS. Thus two birds killed with one stone: you appear to be the good guy, while at the same time nurturing your future bogeyman.

Enough conspiracy-esque to please you?