rumor: Pentax 645D Price: $6500 USD

[BernardLanguillier]

This is being shown at a show in Canada?

Thats an unusual move for a product thats not been sold outside of Japan  

They will go on sales in Japan on June 11th. Street price at launch is announced at 763.000 Yen (8,200 US$), which is about 15% below list price.

As a comparison a 1dsmkIII now goes for 580,000 Yen and a D3x for 644,000 Yen.

The Pentax is likely to be  very difficult to find in the first few months...

Regards,
Bernard

[DanielStone]

I've been wondering if David Lachapelle will pick one up, maybe become the "spokesman" for Pentax, as a pro user. Especially since he was known to be a big user of the Pentax 645's with film. I think he's using a Phase back now, but in the end, who cares ?

-Dan

[MichaelChmilar]

There is a web page from Pentax:

http://www.pentax.jp/japan/imaging/digital...um/645d/ex.html

It has some full-res jpegs.

But the useful results will be some head-to-head tests with competitive systems.

[BernardLanguillier]

There is a web page from Pentax:

http://www.pentax.jp/japan/imaging/digital...um/645d/ex.html

It has some full-res jpegs.

But the useful results will be some head-to-head tests with competitive systems.

Thanks for the link. Pretty good I should say if these files have not been sharpened. Would need to process the raw files through C1 to form a final opinion.

There are remarkably few artifacts which hints at advanced software processing. Files appear to be similar to those of the Leica S2 (at 1/3rd the price). My guess is that it would most probably be very hard to tell apart in print whatever the size.

Cheers,
Bernard

[gwhitf]

Thanks for the link. Pretty good I should say if these files have not been sharpened. Would need to process the raw files through C1 to form a final opinion.

Oh, the irony. You work and you work, to make your software great, and then that software is used on another competing camera, to get the best out of the file.

Don't you know that there's just part of PhaseOne that secretly wants to make that Pentax645D ICC profile less than optimum? "Hey Bob, yeah, you've put enough time into that profile -- let's move on to the next one. Just get close enough, and then mark it finished".

[tetsuo77]

They will go on sales in Japan on June 11th. Street price at launch is announced at 763.000 Yen (8,200 US$), which is about 15% below list price.

As a comparison a 1dsmkIII now goes for 580,000 Yen and a D3x for 644,000 Yen.

The Pentax is likely to be  very difficult to find in the first few months...

Regards,
Bernard

I´ve always wondered about the very nature of the japanese photographer. It is tremendously weird for a camera this expensive to be sold out. And that is something that has me extremely astonished. The hability of a whole market to be so leftfield [along with the SouthKorean market] compared to us westerners, and it does bring a new light to objects and technologies which are essentially european [meaning westerner].

[feppe]

I´ve always wondered about the very nature of the japanese photographer. It is tremendously weird for a camera this expensive to be sold out. And that is something that has me extremely astonished. The hability of a whole market to be so leftfield [along with the SouthKorean market] compared to us westerners, and it does bring a new light to objects and technologies which are essentially european [meaning westerner].

Just because it's sold out doesn't mean it sells well, or that they have manufactured an appreciable number of cameras.

[BJL]

It is tremendously weird for a camera this expensive to be sold out.

That depends entirely on how many or how few are available; it only indicates that Pentax has probably been conservative with its initial production levels. I have seen a claim that production is at 500/month, starting a couple of months ago, so the sell-out could mean nothing more than about 1,000 pre-orders, filling a backlog of demand from Pentax 645 users who have been waiting on this for several years.

The hability of a whole market to be so leftfield ...

See above: about 1,000 customers is very far from being the whole Japanese market!

For a truly left-field figure, how about reports that m4/3 has 20% of the Japanese market share for interchangeable lens digital cameras, more than I have previously seen in global market share for "all DSLR brands except Canon and Nikon combined".

[buckshot]

Can't remember where I read it (probably on LL) but there was an estimate that the worldwide new MFDB market ran at around 5000 units annually.

So, if Pentax shift 1000 that'd be 20% market share over night. If they sell 500 a month, well that's a whole new ball game.

I'm still puzzled why Phase/Leaf haven't done anything to compete with this. Maybe they're hoping it will fall flat on its face? Hmmm...never a great business strategy to simply hope your competition will fail of its own accord.

[TMARK]

I'm still puzzled why Phase/Leaf haven't done anything to compete with this. Maybe they're hoping it will fall flat on its face? Hmmm...never a great business strategy to simply hope your competition will fail of its own accord.

Maybe they are banking on the bias of wealthy amateurs for objects of desire manufactured in a Nord Europa Wagnerian dream of beauty, purity, and cleanliness.

[BJL]

... if Pentax shift 1000 that'd be 20% market share over night. If they sell 500 a month, well that's a whole new ball game.

If Pentax keeps shifting 500/mo, that would be a great success. But initial pent-up demand reflected in pre-orders is very different from sustained sales rate: Apple sold about 500,000 iPads in the first week, but the pace has slowed a bit since then!

Do not get me wrong: I am hoping that Pentax can revive its role as the most affordable and best value for money option in MF.

[BernardLanguillier]

Don't you know that there's just part of PhaseOne that secretly wants to make that Pentax645D ICC profile less than optimum? "Hey Bob, yeah, you've put enough time into that profile -- let's move on to the next one. Just get close enough, and then mark it finished".

That would be a bit risky wouldn't it.

I don't know what fraction of Phase revenue is accounted for by C1, but I would guess that it is significant.

The very existence of the Pentax 645D should be plenty proof that the current business model of the back makers might need some re-thinking. In this context C1 appears to be the most valuable product line at Phaseone.

Cheers,
Bernard

[BernardLanguillier]

I'm still puzzled why Phase/Leaf haven't done anything to compete with this. Maybe they're hoping it will fall flat on its face? Hmmm...never a great business strategy to simply hope your competition will fail of its own accord.

They have been pretty clear that they don't care for volume and prefer to focus on the top 5%.

Now the problem is of course that for some important applications like landscape the Pentax appears to be a much better option, would it only be thanks to its much better battery life in cold weather and rugedness. Unless your photography focuses on nice weather by the road shooting.

If I can afford only one camera, then I'd rather have one that is enough of an all rounder. What it means is that when considered globally the "40 megapixel/shoot anywhere/any time" proposal of the 645D is - to me at least - more top 5% than the "60 megapixel/shoot 50 frames per battery at -10C" of the P65+. Yet the Pentax is 5 times cheaper.

The challenge is so huge that I don't see how Phaseone could react productwise.

The equation is of course different if you need thethered shooting or the ability to use your back by itself. I don't know what percentage of Phaseone customer actually do this, but it shouldn't be much above 25%. It is also true that the P65+ has a larger sensor and some more objective differentiators. Now can the difference between really excellent and even better be seen in prints?

But in the end the 645D might enable the market to understand better what Phaseone owners really want from their back. If performance as a photographic tool it is, then Phaseone has tough days ahead. If it is more of a status thing "I own the most expensive camera on earth" then they should fine. I suspect that it is the latter. If it is the latter Phaseone should by any means keep their high prices which they have been doing...

Looking at things the other way around the lack of reaction from Phaseone can perhaps be interpreted as a confirmation that many Phaseone buyers love spending more than other photographers.  

Cheers,
Bernard

[MichaelChmilar]

Well, Pentax bringing out a camera at less than half the price of the competitive systems might change the market volume.

Those who favor the PhaseOne, Hasselblad, Leaf, and Leica systems may benefit from the price pressure that the Pentax will introduce into the market. Or they may be hurt if Pentax drives them out of the market.

[gwhitf]

Here's what the appeal is to me for that Pentax: I can buy two of them, (one for backup), for the same money that I could buy one Hassie H4d40.

Whatever I buy, I've got to have two of them in the bag. To have a 24 hour loaner is of no use to me -- I've got a client standing there at 930am when that first body goes down, and people on the clock, so i've got to be able to effortlessly reach for a backup body if I have a problem.

The H4 40 or the P40 starts to make sense until you factor in the backup system, then you're getting into Real Money.

[Doug Peterson]

Note the dates of the quotes below.  

According to some apparently reliable sources on Rob Galbraith's forum, some European Calumet outlets are pricing the New Mamiya ZD back at around Euros 7,990 and the Camera around Euros 8,800 before VAT. Pretty agressive pricing, if correct - could radically change the MF digital world.

Hello all:  With the announcement of the Mamiya ZD coming to market soon, I was wondering if anyone has thoughts about the estimated price for the Mamiya digital back.  A couple of years back I decided to move from 35mm to medium format and picked up a Mamiya 645 AFD.  [...] If they did come out with a 22mp back for existing 645 AFD cameras and it is around that $7-8,000 figure....what might that do to Phase One prices etc.?  Let me know what you have heard...thanks

Also note that Phase and Leaf already produce several kits with list prices in the range of $10k with street prices a bit lower. They are not 40 megapixel solutions but although resolution is often the most quoted spec for a camera system it is just one of many features and specs.

[bcooter]

Here's what the appeal is to me for that Pentax: I can buy two of them, (one for backup), for the same money that I could buy one Hassie H4d40.

Whatever I buy, I've got to have two of them in the bag. To have a 24 hour loaner is of no use to me -- I've got a client standing there at 930am when that first body goes down, and people on the clock, so i've got to be able to effortlessly reach for a backup body if I have a problem.

The H4 40 or the P40 starts to make sense until you factor in the backup system, then you're getting into Real Money.

http://www.cheapflights.com/flights-to-japan/nashville-intl/

[bcooter]

They are not 40 megapixel solutions but although resolution is often the most quoted spec for a camera system it is just one of many features and specs.

Yes Doug.

LCD (readable), in camera jpegs (with noise reduction), color settings in camera beyond white balance and oh yea, price.  

Now I'm semi- kidding you, (well ,aybe)  but you fellas should thank Allah that the Phase boy's trained, I mean "got photographers accustomed" to tethering.

But I agree.  Megapixels aren't everything.


BC

[gwhitf]

Yes Doug.

LCD (readable),

I know this is a dead horse, Doug, but the problem with the lackluster Phase LCD is that it FORCES you to shoot tethered, if the job is important at all. You simply cannot judge any added lighting, fill, HMI, etc, on the LCD.

It simply radically changes the way you work, knowing that every single job you shoot, you've got to drag along a Tech or expensive trained Assistant, in order to run the computer.

I wonder how much Phase One realizes this factor. Over the lifespan of a Phase back, that added cost of Techs or Assistants adds a lot to the net sales price. In this day of increasing demands of Shots Per Day, it makes a Phase One back less and less appealing, absolutely knowing that for every single setup, you've got a Tech in tow, dragging around that Ball and Chain.

Not good. Now with the H4d40 and Pentax have (semi)nice LCDs, I just wonder how much longer Phase can thumb their noses at photographers needing good LCD units. It's not cute any more; it's not funny any more, this LCD issue -- for me, I just begin to consider a Phase back, and then think of the LCD, and think "No way".

How much longer can you stand behind a company like this?

[BernardLanguillier]

Also note that Phase and Leaf already produce several kits with list prices in the range of $10k with street prices a bit lower. They are not 40 megapixel solutions but although resolution is often the most quoted spec for a camera system it is just one of many features and specs.

From what I could see playing with one, the additional resolution of the 645D might be its least important differentiator.

All the interface/physical aspects that are important for some applications like landscape are the real brealthrough for a MF camera. It feels like a high end DSLR.

Cheers,
Bernard