Part 2: "Becoming A Great Arch. Photographer

[haefnerphoto]

For each of the four images I posted earlier the 17mm T/S allowed me to make a better image.  In each case backing up was not an option, either walls, trees or water would have come into play (and not beneficially).  The images were successful enough, not great, but worked for my purposes (and the client's).  Here's another image shot Saturday with the 17 that I'm very happy with.  I've printed it to 18" across and it looks great but we know that these files will go even larger!  I prefer my P45 files but really like the ability to shift both horizontally and vertically (haven't used the tilt yet, at least not on purpose).  I'd also love to have a small technical camera but it's hard to justify the expense (keep in mind that I live in Detroit) so the 17mm/5Dmk2 combo made alot of sense.  Jim
[attachment=17977:Cranbroo...m_stairs.jpg]

[CBarrett]

For each of the four images I posted earlier the 17mm T/S allowed me to make a better image.  In each case backing up was not an option, either walls, trees or water would have come into play (and not beneficially).  The images were successful enough, not great, but worked for my purposes (and the client's).  Here's another image shot Saturday with the 17 that I'm very happy with.  I've printed it to 18" across and it looks great but we know that these files will go even larger!  I prefer my P45 files but really like the ability to shift both horizontally and vertically (haven't used the tilt yet, at least not on purpose).  I'd also love to have a small technical camera but it's hard to justify the expense (keep in mind that I live in Detroit) so the 17mm/5Dmk2 combo made alot of sense.  Jim
[attachment=17977:Cranbroo...m_stairs.jpg]

Jim, I assume there is some heavy HDR going on there?  The image almost looks rendered... and... I totally dig it!

[haefnerphoto]

Jim, I assume there is some heavy HDR going on there?  The image almost looks rendered... and... I totally dig it!

Chris, This was supposed to be in the 17mm T/S thread and I haven't been drinking!  Not really HDR but a product of tweaking the sliders in Camera Raw.  Glad you like it!  Now to figure out how to put this in the right thread.  Jim

[gwhitf]

I prefer my P45 files but really like the ability to shift both horizontally and vertically (haven't used the tilt yet, at least not on purpose).  I'd also love to have a small technical camera but it's hard to justify the expense (keep in mind that I live in Detroit) so the 17mm/5Dmk2 combo made alot of sense.

Jim,

That's exactly the conversation that goes on inside my head very often: I love my P45+ files, but those Canon tilt/shift lenses are so fun to work with, and so addictive, and so versatile. The 5D2 with the T/S lenses are just a great combination. So easy to use. And I have made giant prints on my old Epson 9880 that were just jawdropping -- three stitched frames from both the original 5D and the 5D2. Using DPP properly, you can really make the Canon files shine.

[David Eichler]

I am curious about the style of photography that Marc Gerritsen uses, i.e. lots of shots per shoot, mostly using just ambient lighting, and when supplementary lighting is used it is done with minimal lighting equipment that is moved around while doing multiple exposures to light different parts of the scene.  I would like to know if this style of working is practical with US clients, using either medium or small format, i.e. are there a reasonable number of clients in the US who might want this kind of style?  Also, I am curious about the large number of photos. I can't see how so many would be necessary for purely marketing needs.  I would guess that the large number is either purely for high-quality documentation or for extensive presentations, although it is hard for me to imagine such a big presentation devoted to one property, as the number of photos suggests.  

It seems to me that, to do the kind shooting Marc does and make a living at it, one would need a lot of properties that are extremely well designed to make maximum use of the ambient natural and artificial lighting, which I would guess is very expensive to do and thus not many buildings are designed this way. Perhaps Taiwan is unusual in having a very large number of this kind of building? Obviously some use of supplementary lighting is involved in Marc's style, but doesn't that still result in a different look than using a full lighting kit?  Also, I would think that using any amount of supplementary lighting would present a significant limitation when trying to produce a large number of shots in a relatively short period of time, however many assistants one might use.

David Eichler

[Craig Lamson]

Jim, I assume there is some heavy HDR going on there?  The image almost looks rendered... and... I totally dig it!

Sometimes Topaz Detail can add a little bit of something to give a bit of a rendered look.  Racecar trailer and living quarters/toter.

[attachment=17982:Renegade...ler_int4.jpg]

[haefnerphoto]

[quote name='infocusinc' date='Nov 17 2009, 05:11 AM' post='325370']
Sometimes Topaz Detail can add a little bit of something to give a bit of a rendered look.  Racecar trailer and living quarters/toter.

Craig, I just became aware of that software.  It looks as though it does a very similar thing as my use of Camera Raw.  Do you have any more examples of it's capabilities?  Jim

[Craig Lamson]

Sometimes Topaz Detail can add a little bit of something to give a bit of a rendered look.  Racecar trailer and living quarters/toter.

Craig, I just became aware of that software.  It looks as though it does a very similar thing as my use of Camera Raw.  Do you have any more examples of it's capabilities?  Jim

I don't use it often, but it is a decent local contrast adjustment process.  I've just been testing it for a review I'll be writing soon.  My best suggestion is to get the trial version and play.  Its really easy to overdo, but the program is highly adjustable.  And it's slow....

http://www.topazlabs.com/downloads/index.php?d=detail


Here is a before and after...

[CBarrett]

I'm playing with the trial... it takes a while to open a 60 mb file in the plugin and the 16 bit P65+ files don't seem to ever open.

Is there an issue with file size?  Maybe my machine?

Hmm...

[Kirk Gittings]

Does Topaz do anything better/different/easier than Photomatix?

[Craig Lamson]

I'm playing with the trial... it takes a while to open a 60 mb file in the plugin and the 16 bit P65+ files don't seem to ever open.

Is there an issue with file size?  Maybe my machine?

Hmm...

I just timed a 16 bit 1DsmkIII file, 120mb.  It took 2mins 45secs to open the plugin.  My computer is in need of replacement. Windows box, 2.66 core2duo 4gigs. vista 64 PSCS4 32 bit.

I'm guessing a 16bit P65 file might take a month

[Craig Lamson]

Does Topaz do anything better/different/easier than Photomatix?

Yea its different that Photomatrix.  It's not a HDR rendering engine, but rather a local contrast/sharpening process, as best as I can explain it.  Some of the presets are quite exaggrated.  Even the most radical setting are quite halo free.

[MattLaver]

Re. Schulman:

In the Nov. issue of Dwell is a piece by Raymond Neutra in which he recounts some on-site experiences with his father, Richard Neutra and Schulman.  A few tidbits:

"My job was to help move the furniture and place the eucalyptus branches on the bare ground where the garden was to be planted."

"When a picture had been composed and taken and the view camera moved, my father would often take Julius's place and snap the same view as a color slide through the enormous wide-angle lens of his Leica."

"My father was unusual among Julius's clients in that he always came along on the shoots and involved himself in the composition of each shot."

"Half a century later, Julius remembered my father's interventions as a fruitless activity that he had to tolerate.  'Your father was the one who adjusted back and forth to his satisfaction,' he told me recently.  'Then he would move on to the next shot and I would quietly move the camera back to the composition I had seen with my eyes before I had even placed the camera.'  I was astounded to to learn that Julius framed each composition in his mind long before ducking under the black cloth."

He also relays a story of Schulman blasting past Richard Neutra while shooting interiors at the Kaufmann House to catch the fleeting light outside:  "Your father tried to grab my arm to detain me from going outside so I could continue shooting the interior, but I shook off his arm and rushed past..."

Yeah, I saw that article too, and have a couple of Shulman's books where he makes very clear his own belief in always knowing better than his clients. Its not an aspect of him I was very impressed by, so when I mentioned him, I was really just referring to his finished product, which I still think is impressive, and chose to leave his personality aside from the discussion. Wanting to consider the positives.

Matt

[marc gerritsen]

I am curious about the style of photography that Marc Gerritsen uses, i.e. lots of shots per shoot, mostly using just ambient lighting, and when supplementary lighting is used it is done with minimal lighting equipment that is moved around while doing multiple exposures to light different parts of the scene.  I would like to know if this style of working is practical with US clients, using either medium or small format, i.e. are there a reasonable number of clients in the US who might want this kind of style?  Also, I am curious about the large number of photos. I can't see how so many would be necessary for purely marketing needs.  I would guess that the large number is either purely for high-quality documentation or for extensive presentations, although it is hard for me to imagine such a big presentation devoted to one property, as the number of photos suggests.  

It seems to me that, to do the kind shooting Marc does and make a living at it, one would need a lot of properties that are extremely well designed to make maximum use of the ambient natural and artificial lighting, which I would guess is very expensive to do and thus not many buildings are designed this way. Perhaps Taiwan is unusual in having a very large number of this kind of building? Obviously some use of supplementary lighting is involved in Marc's style, but doesn't that still result in a different look than using a full lighting kit?  Also, I would think that using any amount of supplementary lighting would present a significant limitation when trying to produce a large number of shots in a relatively short period of time, however many assistants one might use.

David Eichler

hi david
no idea who else works with the method of using additional light in separate exposures, just come upon it
one day when shooting an interior with a lot of back light, started to experiment with giving
areas some extra light while being myself in frame in certain exposures.
I have shot a few projects in the us europe and australia in the same way
clients are not interested in the technique per se, but more in the final result
I am not always using this technique, just in projects that are high profile.
Of course it slows me down a bit when i use it, it works best with one assistant who knows
how to light or alternatively I hold the light and someone just clicks.
With 35mm cameras you could set up an automatic exposure every 10 seconds
and point the light somewhere else without any assistance.

I don't think Taiwan is that much different then anywhere else, in terms of client-photographer
relationship or in photographer-location relationship.
Light and location is different here though, you might have noticed a different general attitude
"the west looks out and the east looks in.
therefor buildings here have limited windows compared to the west and also do not
have that focus on the balcony, patio, sun-deck or whatever. Inside lighting is very important here
and certainly helps me a lot in my overall set up. Without the inside light on i would have a very
hard time photographing.

hopes that answers some of your questions
m

[Craig Lamson]

hi david
no idea who else works with the method of using additional light in separate exposures, just come upon it
one day when shooting an interior with a lot of back light, started to experiment with giving
areas some extra light while being myself in frame in certain exposures.
I have shot a few projects in the us europe and australia in the same way
clients are not interested in the technique per se, but more in the final result
I am not always using this technique, just in projects that are high profile.
Of course it slows me down a bit when i use it, it works best with one assistant who knows
how to light or alternatively I hold the light and someone just clicks.
With 35mm cameras you could set up an automatic exposure every 10 seconds
and point the light somewhere else without any assistance.

I don't think Taiwan is that much different then anywhere else, in terms of client-photographer
relationship or in photographer-location relationship.
Light and location is different here though, you might have noticed a different general attitude
"the west looks out and the east looks in.
therefor buildings here have limited windows compared to the west and also do not
have that focus on the balcony, patio, sun-deck or whatever. Inside lighting is very important here
and certainly helps me a lot in my overall set up. Without the inside light on i would have a very
hard time photographing.

hopes that answers some of your questions
m

I've been using the moving light setup for some down and dirty stuff recently.  I wrote it up for a friend of mine....

http://www.craiglamson.com/421.htm

[haefnerphoto]

I've been using the moving light setup for some down and dirty stuff recently.  I wrote it up for a friend of mine....

http://www.craiglamson.com/421.htm

Craig, That's very nicely handled!  I think the final result is probably better then if lit and shot as one shot.  Having shot many car interiors I approach the lighting very similiarly, lighting parts of the interior to strip together.  These tight spaces really benefit from this technique.  I've applied it to small baths and wine cellars too.  Jim

[Craig Lamson]

Craig, That's very nicely handled!  I think the final result is probably better then if lit and shot as one shot.  Having shot many car interiors I approach the lighting very similiarly, lighting parts of the interior to strip together.  These tight spaces really benefit from this technique.  I've applied it to small baths and wine cellars too.  Jim

It's a pretty amazing process, and if the client wants that smooth, shadowless look it works really well.  It still gives decent modeling on the surfaces, textures and finishes.

I really love creating lighting that mimics the sun through the windows but that takes a ton of time, a bunch of lights and a lot of patience to get 3 or 4 2k's through three windows to look like a single light source and to be casting a single looking shadow.  My rv clients are cash poor now.  Gone are the days of sweating over a major interior photo for an entire day in the studio.  

I shot luxury conversion van interiors for years when I was at Starcraft.  I never had the luxury of bucks or roofless vans.  I learned how to light small spaces really quickly  

I rarely have an image, even one with good single shot lighting be finished without a few selective lighting layers.  Man do I wish I could have done this back in conversion van heydays...but it was one shot or nothing and Sictex time was a grand an hour...

[David Eichler]

hi david
no idea who else works with the method of using additional light in separate exposures, just come upon it
one day when shooting an interior with a lot of back light, started to experiment with giving
areas some extra light while being myself in frame in certain exposures.
I have shot a few projects in the us europe and australia in the same way
clients are not interested in the technique per se, but more in the final result
I am not always using this technique, just in projects that are high profile.
Of course it slows me down a bit when i use it, it works best with one assistant who knows
how to light or alternatively I hold the light and someone just clicks.
With 35mm cameras you could set up an automatic exposure every 10 seconds
and point the light somewhere else without any assistance.

I don't think Taiwan is that much different then anywhere else, in terms of client-photographer
relationship or in photographer-location relationship.
Light and location is different here though, you might have noticed a different general attitude
"the west looks out and the east looks in.
therefor buildings here have limited windows compared to the west and also do not
have that focus on the balcony, patio, sun-deck or whatever. Inside lighting is very important here
and certainly helps me a lot in my overall set up. Without the inside light on i would have a very
hard time photographing.

hopes that answers some of your questions
m

[David Eichler]

hi david
no idea who else works with the method of using additional light in separate exposures, just come upon it
one day when shooting an interior with a lot of back light, started to experiment with giving
areas some extra light while being myself in frame in certain exposures.
I have shot a few projects in the us europe and australia in the same way
clients are not interested in the technique per se, but more in the final result
I am not always using this technique, just in projects that are high profile.
Of course it slows me down a bit when i use it, it works best with one assistant who knows
how to light or alternatively I hold the light and someone just clicks.
With 35mm cameras you could set up an automatic exposure every 10 seconds
and point the light somewhere else without any assistance.

I don't think Taiwan is that much different then anywhere else, in terms of client-photographer
relationship or in photographer-location relationship.
Light and location is different here though, you might have noticed a different general attitude
"the west looks out and the east looks in.
therefor buildings here have limited windows compared to the west and also do not
have that focus on the balcony, patio, sun-deck or whatever. Inside lighting is very important here
and certainly helps me a lot in my overall set up. Without the inside light on i would have a very
hard time photographing.

hopes that answers some of your questions
m

[David Eichler]

Thanks, Marc.  That does answer some of my questions.

David