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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 266704 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2500 on: December 18, 2021, 01:27:21 pm »

He's a real estate and stock adviser, not a scientist.  But you can get your Covid information from whom you like.  For a guy who says he follows the science, you seem to have a real confirmation-biased attitude.  I question just how much knowledge you really have on subjects you claim to be an expert on.

I never claimed to be an expert, where did you get the impression? But I like to learn new facts and it just happens that I can get more accurate information from some of the well known and reputable youtubers than from less credible sources somewhere else.

As to the covid information, I found Kevin's presentation on Omicron more comprehensive and more valuable than the oversimplified and incomplete bits you supplied.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2501 on: December 18, 2021, 02:08:07 pm »

I never claimed to be an expert, where did you get the impression? But I like to learn new facts and it just happens that I can get more accurate information from some of the well known and reputable youtubers than from less credible sources somewhere else.

As to the covid information, I found Kevin's presentation on Omicron more comprehensive and more valuable than the oversimplified and incomplete bits you supplied.
If you check,  you'll see I didn't respond to your post but to Andrew's. 

digitaldog

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2502 on: December 18, 2021, 02:30:11 pm »

If you check,  you'll see I didn't respond to your post but to Andrew's.
You did not. You typed something, but of course, you didn't respond.

Quote
What are you?
Again, you can't answer a simple question to back up this rubbish:
Quote from: Alan Klein on December 16, 2021, 07:37:05 am

    So now that Covid is on the way out, we're left with the economic damage.

What science from planet Earth states Covid-19 is on the way out?
Put up or shut up.
Quote

    Sorry.  I'm following the science...

Truth or lie???
All evidence points to the latter.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2503 on: December 18, 2021, 02:30:54 pm »

Personally, I could care less what some guy has to say regarding COVID-19 in a scattershot YouTube video or what is posted in online forums by random individuals. If I want information on the epidemiology of SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19, I prefer to get that from epidemiologists. For information on immunity, I'll listen to immunologists. For guidance on public health measures, there are excellent resources from public health agencies.

That said, if someone wants to sit back and listen to a video update on the current COVID-19 situation, there was a 30-minute video update from Johns Hopkins yesterday. The video doesn't start until 2-minutes in if you'd like to save a little time...

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/live/events/covid-19-briefing-expert-insights
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2504 on: December 18, 2021, 02:39:47 pm »

With regard to what is currently known about the Omicron variant specifically, there is an excellent article from the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota which was published online yesterday.

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/12/uncertainty-swirls-around-omicron-covid-19-severity

The latest data and projections from the United Kingdom, closely watched as Europe's biggest Omicron hot spot, cast doubt on whether infections are less severe than Delta variant infections, with South African experts reporting that the milder illness they see might not be due to the virus itself but from preexisting immunity.

Though experts say it typically takes a while to assess severity, the uncertainties have experts on edge. The highly transmissible new variant is taking off in many locations amid holiday travel and gatherings. UK cases today soared to another daily record for the third day in a row, as officials added 93,045 new cases.

Also, the country added 3,201 more cases to its Omicron total, putting the total at 14,909, with about four out of five of the cases in London.

A cloudy crystal ball for severity
It its latest assessment, researchers from Imperial College London who examined data on people reporting symptoms and the proportion of cases needing hospitalization found no evidence that Omicron infections are less severe than Delta. They added, however, that hospitalization data are currently very limited.

The group also found that the risk of reinfection with Omicron is 5.4 times greater than with Delta, putting protection from earlier infection as low as 19%. They also estimate that Omicron cases doubled every 2 day up to Dec 11 and that Omicron's reproduction number was above 3 during the same period.

The experts found a different pattern for Omicron compared with Delta, with young adults, London residents, and those with African ethnicity more affected by Omicron.

They estimated vaccine effectiveness after two doses at 0% to 20%, and effectiveness after a booster dose at 55% to 80%.

In a statement from the college, epidemiologist Neil Ferguson, OBE, said the study adds more evidence of substantial immune evasion from both infection and vaccination. "This level of immune evasion means that Omicron poses a major, imminent threat to public health," he said.

The UK's Health Security Agency today in its latest weekly risk assessment also reflected the uncertainty about Omicron severity. "There are insufficient data to fully assess severity, which is expected in the early period of emergence of a new variant," it said. "However, on the data available in the UK, there is no signal that supports a difference in the intrinsic virulence of the Omicron virus compared to Delta."

Meanwhile, at a briefing today in South Africa, Health Minister Joe Phaahla said the early anecdotal reports of milder Omicron illnesses might not reflect a less virulent virus but may instead be due to natural immunity from earlier infection or vaccination, according to Reuters.

Michelle Groome, PhD, with the National Institute for Infectious Diseases, said hospitalizations and deaths are rising, but deaths are at a much lower level than in earlier waves.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2505 on: December 18, 2021, 02:40:27 pm »

If you check,  you'll see I didn't respond to your post but to Andrew's.

Mea culpa. I guess that I saw red when I read that one shouldn't trust the youtuber Kevin. I still think that he discovers and presents information on many subjects much better than some doctors, stock analysts or engineers.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2021, 02:44:28 pm by LesPalenik »
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DavidJ

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2506 on: December 18, 2021, 03:17:37 pm »

It means they're willing to take their chances and not wear a mask.  Especially those who have been vaccinated. What's incoherent about that?

You wear a mask to prevent you from infecting others. So we are talking social responsibility. Mask wearing cuts transmission of the virus by 50%.
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digitaldog

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2507 on: December 18, 2021, 03:19:56 pm »

I question just how much knowledge you really have on subjects you claim to be an expert on.
Your inability to understand and accept text, data, facts, from experts on many subjects is very well established here.
Begging the question again, one you appear very afraid to answer: your expertise is in what field sir?  ???
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2508 on: December 18, 2021, 03:43:29 pm »

You wear a mask to prevent you from infecting others. So we are talking social responsibility. Mask wearing cuts transmission of the virus by 50%.

Your point is well taken and masks are much more effective when both an infected person and an uninfected are wearing them. This is one reason why mask mandates have been implemented during periods of high transmission and case rates.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2509 on: December 18, 2021, 05:12:18 pm »

When I said a year ago that people should not use J&J but rather Moderna or Pfizer, all the people here on the left told me I was nuts and biased.  J&J was equally as good.  Funny thing is that I was following the science.  They weren't.  They were arguing for J&J on political grounds as many of their other arguments.  So now that I've been proven right, none of those early naysayers have spoken up to acknowledge their error.  Figures.

Despite your self-congratulatory statement, nothing that you said above is true. When the current vaccines were newly available and in high demand and short supply and clinical trial efficacy data was all that was available, the suggestion that people might want to wait until an mRNA vaccine was available, rather than take whatever the first vaccine might be that was available to them, was stupid and dangerous and in no way following science—or even simple common sense for that matter.

COVID-19 was a new, deadly, and highly transmissible viral disease when the vaccines arrived. ALL of the vaccines had proven in clinical trials to be extremely effective at preventing severe disease and death, the mRNA vaccines had somewhat higher efficacy in preventing mild cases. Suggesting that someone risk hospitalization or death while waiting for a preferred vaccine brand is highly illustrative of why no one should give any weight to online comments when looking for medical advice.

Also, at that time, the only data available was efficacy from clinical trials. No one had any idea what the long-term real world effectiveness might be for any of the vaccines or what type of rare side effects might surface over time among a larger population. Time and again, when the difference between known clinical trial efficacy and the unknown of real world effectiveness was pointed out, you deliberately and stubbornly refused to acknowledge that there was any difference and ignored the science. You had the same response to others pointing out the difficulty of comparing clinical trials conducted at different times and places with different variants of the disease.

There was NOTHING political about the discussion—nothing whatever. The discussion was about the risk of contracting a disease which could cause hospitalization or death versus the benefit of being vaccinated at the earliest opportunity. You didn't suggest that people should avoid the J&J vaccine due to extremely rare side effects, which is the reason for CDC now recommending mRNA vaccines; in addition, CDC noted that mRNA vaccines are in plentiful supply now. So, what is your claim of following and being vindicated by science based on?—absolutely nothing.

At the time of the discussion you refer to, there was no discussion of rare side effects with any of the vaccines authorized for use in the U.S., including the J&J vaccine, as none were known. There is now evidence, after millions of doses have been administered across a broad spectrum of the population, of extremely rare side effects—blood clots with viral vector vaccines (J&J and AstraZeneca) and Myocarditis and Pericarditis with mRNA vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna). The benefits of all of these vaccines far outweigh any risk from very rare side effects which is why they all remain available to the public.

The new CDC recommendation is for individuals to take one of the mRNA vaccines due to extremely rare blood clot events. They still continue to recommend the J&J vaccine to those who, for whatever reason, do not want to take an mRNA vaccine. "Given the current state of the pandemic both here and around the world, the ACIP reaffirmed that receiving any vaccine is better than being unvaccinated. Individuals who are unable or unwilling to receive an mRNA vaccine will continue to have access to Johnson & Johnson’s COVID-19 vaccine." That's the CDC recommendation and risk/benefit analysis based on science, reason, and simple common sense.

Your self-satisfaction aside, you didn't follow or attempt to understand the science then and you've consistently attacked scientific experts and public health agencies that do follow and understand the science. Your self-proclaimed victory of being "proven right" is as hollow as your comprehension and knowledge of basic science. "Figures."
« Last Edit: December 19, 2021, 04:54:19 am by TechTalk »
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digitaldog

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2510 on: December 18, 2021, 05:26:33 pm »

When I said a year ago that people should not use J&J but rather Moderna or Pfizer, all the people here on the left told me I was nuts and biased. 
I never said that, but you are correct, I think you're nuts and biased.
Next assumption and generalization you'd like to post?
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2511 on: December 18, 2021, 05:51:00 pm »

... all the people here on the left told me I was nuts and biased...

"all the people on the left"

WTF are you talking about?
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PeterAit

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2512 on: December 18, 2021, 06:24:38 pm »

Mea culpa. I guess that I saw red when I read that one shouldn't trust the youtuber Kevin. I still think that he discovers and presents information on many subjects much better than some doctors, stock analysts or engineers.

And how do you know this?
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2513 on: December 18, 2021, 07:34:30 pm »

I don't get it. I don't have any reason to "trust the youtuber Kevin" on medical topics nor understand why anyone would care, let alone "[see] red", if someone does or doesn't trust him or his rambling review of current COVID-19 related news snippets.

Maybe I'm biased because every time he tried to pronounce thrombosis, it made me wonder if my hearing was getting worse than it is already.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2514 on: December 18, 2021, 07:39:20 pm »

And how do you know this?

As to Kevin Paffrath, I have followed him for a while and can vouch for quality of his information (not all but a good deal of his reports). If you can find time and listen to his video which I referenced in my post yesterday, you can see it for yourself. There are quite a few other serious youtubers who understand the current medical and technological projects and cover them in much more detail and with more scrutiny than some of the superficial mainstream media commentators.

On the other hand, I have seen and experienced countless "experts" in the medical, nutritional and financial areas with impressive titles who are rather clueless and spread out outdated, invalid and potentially hurtful information. The best example is the US president who recently stated that GM and Mary Barra are the leaders in the EV revolution when GM is actually the last one behind Tesla, Ford, and VW. I don't know whether he lies on purpose or if he doesn't have the correct information.
 
Of course, there are plenty of incompetent idiots and charlatans spewing BS on youtube and then there are many highly educated and respectable scientists who contribute greatly with their knowledge and experience in all kinds of media. Best recommendation I can give to you, is to consume as much information as you can can and with time you'll be able to discern whom to believe.
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LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2515 on: December 18, 2021, 07:42:33 pm »

I don't get it. I don't have any reason to "trust the youtuber Kevin" on medical topics nor understand why anyone would care, let alone "[see] red", if someone does or doesn't trust him or his rambling review of current COVID-19 related news snippets.

Maybe I'm biased because every time he tried to pronounce thrombosis, it made me wonder if my hearing was getting worse than it is already.

If you can't research certain subjects in enough detail, then it is understandable that you don't get it.
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TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2516 on: December 18, 2021, 08:03:38 pm »

Whatever you say Les. If you run into Kevin, let him know that there is an h in thrombosis.

Aside from that, I'm not into hero worship or care much about YouTube celebrities and their views.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2517 on: December 18, 2021, 09:48:44 pm »

Your inability to understand and accept text, data, facts, from experts on many subjects is very well established here.
Begging the question again, one you appear very afraid to answer: your expertise is in what field sir?  ???
Common sense.

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2518 on: December 18, 2021, 09:52:55 pm »

Whatever you say Les. If you run into Kevin, let him know that there is an h in thrombosis.

Aside from that, I'm not into hero worship or care much about YouTube celebrities and their views.

He is not my hero, just one of the information channels I follow. He may well have more typos in his titles than me in my LuLa posts.

Speaking about celebrities, Elizabeth Warren reached a new low. After Time magazine featured Elon Musk on their cover, she went into a rage and posted six hateful Facebook ads about him, calling him names and lying about him not paying his share of taxes. That's in a year when he paid more taxes any other US citizen.  She called him a freeloader and then she had the audacity to ask her Facebook followers to send her $10 to pay for those ads.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #2519 on: December 18, 2021, 10:04:56 pm »

Despite your self-congratulatory statement, nothing that you said above is true. When the current vaccines were newly available and in high demand and short supply and clinical trial efficacy data was all that was available, the suggestion that people might want to wait until an mRNA vaccine was available rather than take whatever the first vaccine might be that was available to them was stupid and dangerous and in no way following science—or even simple common sense for that matter.

COVID-19 was a new, deadly, and highly transmissible viral disease when the vaccines arrived. ALL of the vaccines had proven in clinical trials to be extremely effective at preventing severe disease and death, the mRNA vaccines had somewhat higher efficacy in preventing mild cases. Suggesting that someone risk hospitalization or death while waiting for a preferred vaccine brand is highly illustrative of why no one should give any weight to online comments when looking for medical advice.

Also, at that time, the only data available was efficacy from clinical trials. No one had any idea what the long-term real world effectiveness might be for any of the vaccines or what type of rare side effects might surface over time among a larger population. Time and again, when the difference between known clinical trial efficacy and the unknown of real world effectiveness was pointed out, you deliberately and stubbornly refused to acknowledge that there was any difference and ignored the science. You had the same response to others pointing out the difficulty of comparing clinical trials conducted at different times and places with different variants of the disease.

There was NOTHING political about the discussion—nothing whatever. The discussion was about the risk of contracting a disease which could cause hospitalization or death versus the benefit of being vaccinated at the earliest opportunity. You didn't suggest that people should avoid the J&J vaccine due to extremely rare side effects which is the why the CDC has recommended mRNA vaccines in addition to noting they're in plentiful supply now. So, what is your claim of following and being vindicated by science based on?—absolutely nothing.

At the time of the discussion you refer to, there was no discussion of rare side effects with any of the vaccines authorized for use in the U.S., including the J&J vaccine, as none were known. There is now evidence, after millions of doses have been administered across a broad spectrum of the population, of extremely rare side effects—blood clots with viral vector vaccines (J&J and AstraZeneca) and Myocarditis and Pericarditis with mRNA vaccines (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna). The benefits of all of these vaccines far outweigh any risk from very rare side effects which is why they all remain available to the public.

The new CDC recommendation is for individuals to take one of the mRNA vaccines due to extremely rare blood clot events. They still continue to recommend the J&J vaccine to those who, for whatever reason, do not want to take an mRNA vaccine. "Given the current state of the pandemic both here and around the world, the ACIP reaffirmed that receiving any vaccine is better than being unvaccinated. Individuals who are unable or unwilling to receive an mRNA vaccine will continue to have access to Johnson & Johnson’s COVID-19 vaccine." That's the CDC recommendation and risk/benefit analysis based on science, reason, and simple common sense.

Your self-satisfaction aside, you didn't follow or attempt to understand the science then and you've consistently attacked scientific experts and public health agencies that do follow and understand the science. Your self-proclaimed victory of being "proven right" is as hollow as your comprehension and knowledge of basic science. "Figures."
Photography experts came out and rated three cameras as 93%, 94% and 78% effective for capturing the right exposure in Auto mode.   But then they said, it really doesn't matter which you choose.  All will work well.  Which camera would you not choose?

Well, that was J&J.  They were rated around 78% efficacious during trials while Moderna and Pfizer were at 93% and 94%. Yet the scientists tried to convince everyone it didn't matter, again lying to the public for political reasons and to fool us into accepting a sub-standard vaccine, adding to the mistrust of scientists.  Les made a good point that you would be better off listening to a stock picker.   Many here believed the lie because they were "scientists" rather than using their own common sense.  Of course, J&J's efficacy also subsequently waned the fastest and became a harmful vaccine that killed many people, which makes sense considering how poorly it did during the original trials.

Recently, the CDC has finally recommended Moderna and Pfizer over J&J.  How many people did the CDC kill and infect in their rush to get a bad vaccine out and phony arguments to make it seem harmless?
https://www.prevention.com/health/a35227295/johnson-and-johnson-covid-19-vaccine/
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