Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine

[LesPalenik]

Many young and fit people succumb to C19 and will experience long lasting effects.

Most people who have coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) recover completely within a few weeks. But some people — even those who had mild versions of the disease — continue to experience symptoms after their initial recovery. Older people and people with many serious medical conditions are the most likely to experience lingering COVID-19 symptoms, but even young, otherwise healthy people can feel unwell for weeks to months after infection.

Although COVID-19 is seen as a disease that primarily affects the lungs, it can damage many other organs as well. This organ damage may increase the risk of long-term health problems. Organs that may be affected by COVID-19 include:

- Heart. Imaging tests taken months after recovery from COVID-19 have shown lasting damage to the heart muscle, even in people who experienced only mild COVID-19 symptoms. This may increase the risk of heart failure or other heart complications in the future.
- Lungs. The type of pneumonia often associated with COVID-19 can cause long-standing damage to the tiny air sacs (alveoli) in the lungs. The resulting scar tissue can lead to long-term breathing problems.
- Brain. Even in young people, COVID-19 can cause strokes, seizures and Guillain-Barre syndrome — a condition that causes temporary paralysis. COVID-19 may also increase the risk of developing Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.

COVID-19 can make blood cells more likely to clump up and form clots. While large clots can cause heart attacks and strokes, much of the heart damage caused by COVID-19 is believed to stem from very small clots that block tiny blood vessels (capillaries) in the heart muscle. Other parts of the body affected by blood clots include the lungs, legs, liver and kidneys. COVID-19 can also weaken blood vessels and cause them to leak, which contributes to potentially long-lasting problems with the liver and kidneys.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Maybe but I didn’t present it as a realistic estimate - just a number bigger than your initial guess if less than 60000.

Once again, it wasn't my initial guess of the final number. Just the threshold when I will start paying attention.

[Slobodan Blagojevic]

Many young and fit people succumb to C19 and will experience long lasting effects. ...

Please, Les... "Many"!? "May"!? "Can"?!

I may be hit by a bus, crossing the street. It surely can happen. And it may happen to many people. In reality, the percentages are negligible.

[LesPalenik]

More panic-porn.

Your number is vastly exaggerated. Currently, the fatality rate of those tested as infected is about 1%. Actually, much less than 1%, because of those asymptomatic and those infected but who never got tested. So, worst case scenario, without vaccination, it would be less than 3 million. Much less than even 3 mio, as it would continue to spread among younger and healthier population.

I wonder how many fatalities are caused by hospital closures and surgery cancellations.

[LesPalenik]

Please, Les... "Many"!? "May"!? "Can"?!

I may be hit by a bus, crossing the street. It surely can happen. And it may happen to many people. In reality, the percentages are negligible.

Fortunately, none of my family and close friends have contracted C19 virus yet, but I've read quite a few stories about younger or middle-aged persons suffering or dead from it.

[Robert Roaldi]

But just imagine the benefits! Social Security solvent into eternity and beyond. Retirement homes get cheaper, due to empty beds. Millennials get to spend their inheritance much sooner, creating a boost to the economy. Middle-aged finally could lead a stress-free life, liberated from the dual pressure to raise their kids and care for their parents. Etc., etc.

In the meantime, thanks to Dems (demons?) and Satan:

I don't understand something. If you don't care about the people who die from Covid, why do you care about the "millions" falling into poverty?

Besides which, the other day you got hot and bothered about a remark someone made about beating somebody up (I couldn't find the exchange, too many pages to search through), which struck me as a somewhat surprising "snowflakey" reaction on your part. But now you're making cracks about millennials getting their inheritances sooner than anticipated. If you can't take it, maybe you shouldn't dish it out. 

[Alan Klein]

The ones that you made yesterday come to mind.

First, CDC does not have that authority, only the FDA does. Second, CDC and FDA issued a joint statement which recommended a pause in the use of J&J vaccine. The FDA did not pull, stop, or prevent the J&J vaccine from continuing to be administered nor withdraw its Emergency Use Authorization. However, the recommendation of a pause from CDC and FDA was enough for states to follow thru and do just that for now.

A distinction without a difference.  The point is, the government stopped the Johnson vaccinations.  Who cares if it wasn't just the CDC but rather a joint statement between the CDC and the FDA?  Who cares if they "paused" it rather than "stopped it"?  That's just nonsensical "cover-your-ass" verbiage from Fauci.  You're obfuscating the matter with unimportant factoids. No one is getting vaccinated with it. All those people who had appointments now have to scramble to find other means to get their shots.  So they're exposed to the virus for a longer period.  How many of them will die compared to the one person who might die from blood clots?   

[Alan Klein]

The fat lady hasn't sung.  The war continues.  We will be adding up the deaths and economic and medical casualties for years.

[Robert Roaldi]

A distinction without a difference.  The point is, the government stopped the Johnson vaccinations.  Who cares if it wasn't just the CDC but rather a joint statement between the CDC and the FDA?  Who cares if they "paused" it rather than "stopped it"?  That's just nonsensical "cover-your-ass" verbiage from Fauci.  You're obfuscating the matter with unimportant factoids. No one is getting vaccinated with it. All those people who had appointments now have to scramble to find other means to get their shots.  So they're exposed to the virus for a longer period.  How many of them will die compared to the one person who might die from blood clots?

I don't understand your consternation about this. The preliminary data is making the researchers nervous and they've decided to have a better look before proceeding. Would you prefer if they rolled the dice and went ahead, and it turned out that lots of people developed clots, more than what has emerged so far? It's a novel treatment, doesn't it make sense to keep a close watch? So some appointments get cancelled or postponed. It's inconvenient and frustrating for the people involved but it's not the end of the world either.

I remember you once stated that you didn't take the annual flu shot because you were convinced that it gave you the flu. Now you're complaining about being cautious about the Covid vaccine rollout.

Let me guess, "experts" flip-flopping again, right?

[Alan Klein]

I don't understand your consternation about this. The preliminary data is making the researchers nervous and they've decided to have a better look before proceeding. Would you prefer if they rolled the dice and went ahead, and it turned out that lots of people developed clots, more than what has emerged so far? It's a novel treatment, doesn't it make sense to keep a close watch? So some appointments get cancelled or postponed. It's inconvenient and frustrating for the people involved but it's not the end of the world either.

I remember you once stated that you didn't take the annual flu shot because you were convinced that it gave you the flu. Now you're complaining about being cautious about the Covid vaccine rollout.

Let me guess, "experts" flip-flopping again, right?

But not taking the flu shot was my choice, not the government's.  I listened to the experts, the non-experts, and my own intuition and feelings and decided not to take them any longer. That was a really informed move last year because practically no one got it as I figured they wouldn't due to measures taken to protect against Covid.

All I suggested was that the CDC should warn people of the blood clot issue while they check things out. But not stop it.  Then let individuals decide to get the Johnson shot or not.  Only one person died of blood clots out of 6 million.  How many will die from Covid because they didn't get their shot? Let people figure the odds and make a decision just like we do with elective surgery.

[Robert Roaldi]

All I suggested was that the CDC should warn people of the blood clot issue while they check things out. But not stop it.  Then let individuals decide to get the Johnson shot or not.  Only one person died of blood clots out of 6 million.  How many will die from Covid because they didn't get their shot? Let people figure the odds and make a decision just like we do with elective surgery.

I cannot believe you're doubling down on this idea.

[faberryman]

You're obfuscating the matter with unimportant factoids. No one is getting vaccinated with it. All those people who had appointments now have to scramble to find other means to get their shots.  So they're exposed to the virus for a longer period.  How many of them will die compared to the one person who might die from blood clots?

If you are going to endlessly repeat your points, it seems only fair that I be allowed to do so too.

Around here they just swapped the Pfizer and Moderna for the J&J and carried on. I haven't done a multi-state analysis to see if it is the same elsewhere. Have you?

You know what is hilarious? A couple of weeks ago some of you guys were saying that no one in his right mind would take the J&J vaccine because it had a lower efficacy rating than the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Now that the CDC and FDA have recommended that the J&J vaccine be taken off the market temporarily until it can be determined if it causes blood clots in the brain, all of a sudden it is a national catastrophe. I don't know how it could be a national catastrophe if no one in his right mind was going to take it anyway. Seems like a non-event.

[Alan Klein]

I cannot believe you're doubling down on this idea.

Why not?  I just googled and found experts are making the same recommendation I am.  Proceed with the Johnson vaccine if you have an appointment and if the supplier is still willing to give them to you (which is probably doubtful because then they would be liable and be sued if something happens). Also, I didn't hear Fauci say his "pause" allows you to get the shot anyway.  There seems to be a conflict in government advice.

Johnson & Johnson vaccine pause: What to know if you got or scheduled the shot
"What’s more, doctors and vaccination sites can still give you the J&J vaccine. “This is a recommendation, and it’s not a mandate. It’s out of an abundance of caution,” Dr. Peter Marks, the director of the FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research, said in a press conference on Tuesday. “If an individual health care provider has a conversation with an individual patient, and they determined that the benefit risk for that individual patient is appropriate, we’re not going to stop that provider from administering the vaccine.”

“The takeaway message here is, the single most important thing people can do is get vaccinated,” said Panettieri. “Not to get vaccinated would put you at such an enhanced risk of death from COVID, or serious risk from COVID, that I would not be worried about these isolated and very rare cases of blood clots.”

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/johnson-johnson-vaccine-pause-what-to-know-if-you-got-or-scheduled-the-shot-11618338584

[chez]

I don't understand something. If you don't care about the people who die from Covid, why do you care about the "millions" falling into poverty?

Besides which, the other day you got hot and bothered about a remark someone made about beating somebody up (I couldn't find the exchange, too many pages to search through), which struck me as a somewhat surprising "snowflakey" reaction on your part. But now you're making cracks about millennials getting their inheritances sooner than anticipated. If you can't take it, maybe you shouldn't dish it out. 

Come on you know Slob...he's just a shock jock. He loves to just stir the shit with his smart alic responses.

[Chris Kern]

All I suggested etc., etc. . . .

I cannot believe you're doubling down on this idea.

Then you haven't been paying sufficient attention.  It's evident that he has developed a robust immune response to infection by facts that contradict his previously-expressed opinions.

[faberryman]

Why not?  I just googled and found experts are making the same recommendation I am.

I have come to the conclusion that you don't believe expert opinions you don't agree with. The expert opinions you do agree with are fine.

[Alan Klein]

Then you haven't been paying sufficient attention.  It's evident that he has developed a robust immune response to infection by facts that contradict his previously-expressed opinions.

I provided facts that support my opinion.  See #1267.  Your comment is just a cheap shot, Chris. 

[Alan Klein]

I have come to the conclusion that you don't believe expert opinions you don't agree with. The expert opinions you do agree with are fine. Hilarious.

You do the same.  So does everyone else here.  Who provides evidence that undermines their own position?  I wouldn't want them as a trial attorney defending me.

[faberryman]

You do the same.  So does everyone else here.  Who provides evidence that undermines their own position?  I wouldn't want them as a trial attorney defending me.

I do not repeat ad nauseum that experts can't be trusted, and in the next breath rely on a expert's opinion. That's your shtick.

[faberryman]

I provided facts that support my opinion.  See #1267.  Your comment is just a cheap shot, Chris.

Reading #1267, it seems to me that you are providing an opinion to support your opinion, not a fact to support your opinion.

I just googled and found experts are making the same recommendation I am.