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Author Topic: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine  (Read 265382 times)

LesPalenik

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1220 on: April 15, 2021, 04:54:29 pm »

So far, 5,800 fully vaccinated people have caught COVID-19 anyway in U.S. 5,800 cases is a large absolute number but a relatively small count compared to the total number of completed vaccinations. CDC will attempt to identify who is most prone to become infected despite having been vaccinated.

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About 5,800 people who have been vaccinated against coronavirus have become infected anyway, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention tells CNN. Some became seriously ill and 74 people died, the CDC said. It said 396 -- 7% -- of those who got infected after they were vaccinated required hospitalization.

Breakthrough cases are expected. The vaccines are not 100% effective in preventing infections and as tens of millions of people are vaccinated, more and more such cases will be reported.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/so-far-5-800-fully-vaccinated-people-have-caught-covid-19-anyway-in-u-s-cdc-says-1.5388245
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faberryman

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1221 on: April 15, 2021, 04:59:56 pm »

So far, 5,800 fully vaccinated people have caught COVID-19 anyway in U.S. 5,800 cases is a large absolute number but a relatively small count compared to the total number of completed vaccinations. CDC will attempt to identify who is most prone to become infected despite having been vaccinated.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/so-far-5-800-fully-vaccinated-people-have-caught-covid-19-anyway-in-u-s-cdc-says-1.5388245

No surprise. No one has said the vaccines are 100% effective. Neither are natural antibodies.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 05:05:15 pm by faberryman »
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chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1222 on: April 15, 2021, 05:19:48 pm »

So far, 5,800 fully vaccinated people have caught COVID-19 anyway in U.S. 5,800 cases is a large absolute number but a relatively small count compared to the total number of completed vaccinations. CDC will attempt to identify who is most prone to become infected despite having been vaccinated.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/so-far-5-800-fully-vaccinated-people-have-caught-covid-19-anyway-in-u-s-cdc-says-1.5388245

Those numbers should go down as more people get vaccinated. Right now there are way more people that are not vaccinated and possible transmitters than are vaccinated. The vaccine is not 100% affective so infection while vaccinated is expected...but when we reach the so called herd immunity, things will change.
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chez

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1223 on: April 15, 2021, 05:25:44 pm »

I get that argument, in principle.

The disagreement has been all this time if those effects are really "severe" and even if so, would they justify crashing the whole world economy and draconian lockdown measures. As I explained many times before, I think they are not severe, and do not justify terrorizing 99.9x % of the population for the questionable effect on the 0.0y%. Isolating infected, yes, like in all other pandemics before. Assuming that 99.9x% of the population is dangerous, is, well... very dangerous (assumption).

Drunk driving also has a very little chance of killing someone, yet we have these draconian laws that can actually put you into prison for driving drunk. Same with smoking on planes...how many people died because they sat next to someone on the plane while they smoked? How many bombs brought down planes in the last 50 years, yet we’ve put in huge delays at airports that are costing trillions of dollars every year.

I don’t see you all excited about these assaults on your liberty.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1224 on: April 15, 2021, 05:41:02 pm »

... I don’t see you all excited about these assaults on your liberty.

Oh, but I am. Against mandatory seat belts, against checking billions of passengers instead of just a few Muslims. Drunk drivers actually kill thousands every year - and yet, they are not prevented from driving in advance, unless caught. I don't mind taking off the street someone who is knowingly Covid positive AND coughing deliberately in people's faces.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1225 on: April 15, 2021, 05:42:13 pm »

6 people who didn't get the AstraZeneca vaccine died from Covid in Denmark just in the last 3 days.

6:2 is an awfully bad ratio, given that you make a choice for the vaccine.

Bart_van_der_Wolf

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1226 on: April 15, 2021, 05:51:08 pm »

6:2 is an awfully bad ratio, given that you make a choice for the vaccine.

It would be if it weren't bollocksing statistics. Why do you do that?
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1227 on: April 15, 2021, 05:56:18 pm »

It would be if it weren't bollocksing statistics. Why do you do that?

Not me. Les contrasted 6 to 2.

faberryman

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1228 on: April 15, 2021, 06:53:15 pm »

I don't mind taking off the street someone who is knowingly Covid positive AND coughing deliberately in people's faces.

So if someone is coughing in someone's face, maybe make them take a COVID breathalyzer test? I have read a few stories about police arresting people for coughing in someone's face when the person asked them to put on a mask. This incident occurred at a WalMart. I've been telling you guys for months to avoid WalMart.

https://www.newsweek.com/couple-arrested-coughing-walmart-employees-refusing-wear-masks-1516455

You'll love this quote from the article:

"In a March letter, the Department of Justice said that coronavirus "appears to meet" the "statutory definition of a 'biological agent.'" Individuals attempting to intentionally infect others with COVID-19 could be brought up on terrorism charges."

"Threats or attempts to use COVID-19 as a weapon against Americans will not be tolerated," the letter said."
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 07:05:40 pm by faberryman »
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Chris Kern

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1229 on: April 15, 2021, 08:16:07 pm »

No one has said the vaccines are 100% effective. Neither are natural antibodies.

The probability of so-called breakthrough infections (stupid term) doesn't seem to be known yet, but the current real-world data appear to indicate that the mRNA vaccines, at least—I haven't seen real-world data regarding any of the others—are quite effective for the overwhelming majority of individuals.

Most people who are exposed to someone who is shedding the coronavirus and have been "fully vaccinated" with either the Moderna or Pfizer/BioNTech product (two doses plus a two-week waiting period) won't get infected at all.  Of those who do get infected, approximately 10 percent or thereabouts, only about half will get sick.  Of those who get sick, few will need hospitalization.  A very small number will die.

In the meantime, if you aren't exposed to the coronavirus, you can't get infected.  Period.  Full stop.

So until you have been vaccinated, if you want to avoid getting sick, don't spend any more time than necessary indoors with strangers; wear an effective facemask* when you must spend time indoors with people other than those in your household and, while you're doing that, maintain as much distance as possible from them; wash your hands after touching smooth surfaces which have been recently handled by strangers.  These are the same simple and easy-to-observe precautions that have been understood for many months now by anyone paying attention.

After you have been vaccinated, keep doing these things because some vaccinated or previously-infected individuals are expected to become infected if they come into contact with someone who is shedding the virus.  These are the "breakthrough" infections.  And, of course, you could become infected, yourself, not have symptoms or not have them yet, and transmit the virus to other people.

If you have been vaccinated and you really want to spend time indoors with people other than those in your household without observing these precautions, verify that they have also been vaccinated and that the venue where you intend to meet will not expose you to other individuals who are unvaccinated or whose vaccination status you can't verify.

Of course, if everybody took these precautions, the reproduction factor of the virus would quickly fall below 1.0, the frequency of new cases would be reduced dramatically, and the risk of coming into contact with an infected individual soon would become low enough that none of these precautions would be necessary any longer.

In other words, once there is little or no chance you will be exposed to the virus, you won't get infected.  Period.  Full stop.

Alternately, you are within your rights (at least in most industrial democracies) to ignore the precautions, take your chances, and be confident that you are doing your part to retard the return to normal life.

———
E.g., an N95, KN95, or FFP2 respirator, properly fitted, or a surgical mask covered with a tight-fitting cloth mask to pull the edges of the surgical mask close to your face.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2021, 08:19:53 pm by Chris Kern »
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1230 on: April 15, 2021, 08:24:13 pm »

The probability of so-called breakthrough infections (stupid term) doesn't seem to be known yet, but the current real-world data appear to indicate that the mRNA vaccines, at least—I haven't seen real-world data regarding any of the others—are quite effective for the overwhelming majority of individuals.

Most people who are exposed to someone who is shedding the coronavirus and have been "fully vaccinated" with either the Moderna or Pfizer/BioNTech product (two doses plus a two-week waiting period) won't get infected at all.  Of those who do get infected, approximately 10 percent or thereabouts, only about half will get sick.  Of those who get sick, few will need hospitalization.  A very small number will die.

In the meantime, if you aren't exposed to the coronavirus, you can't get infected.  Period.  Full stop.

So until you have been vaccinated, if you want to avoid getting sick, don't spend any more time than necessary indoors with strangers; wear an effective facemask* when you must spend time indoors with people other than those in your household and, while you're doing that, maintain as much distance as possible from them; wash your hands after touching smooth surfaces which have been recently handled by strangers.  These are the same simple and easy-to-observe precautions that have been understood for many months now by anyone paying attention.

After you have been vaccinated, keep doing these things because some vaccinated or previously-infected individuals are expected to become infected if they come into contact with someone who is shedding the virus.  These are the "breakthrough" infections.  And, of course, you could become infected, yourself, not have symptoms or not have them yet, and transmit the virus to other people.

If you have been vaccinated and you really want to spend time indoors with people other than those in your household without observing these precautions, verify that they have also been vaccinated and that the venue where you intend to meet will not expose you to other individuals who are unvaccinated or whose vaccination status you can't verify.

Of course, if everybody took these precautions, the reproduction factor of the virus would quickly fall below 1.0, the frequency of new cases would be reduced dramatically, and the risk of coming into contact with an infected individual soon would become low enough that none of these precautions would be necessary any longer.

In other words, once there is little or no chance you will be exposed to the virus, you won't get infected.  Period.  Full stop.

Alternately, you are within your rights (at least in most industrial democracies) to ignore the precautions, take your chances, and be confident that you were doing your part to retard the return to normal life.

———
E.g., an N95, KN95, or FFP2 respirator, properly fitted, or a surgical mask covered with a tight-fitting cloth mask to pull the edges of the surgical mask close to your face.
My poker friends, all seniors and all vaccinated, want to re-start our weekly poker games before we die from natural causes.  I've said yes but my wife isn't in favor of it.  She, also vaccinated, still wears two masks, although we stopped disinfecting the grocery food.    ::)  I might have to skip the games at least until more people are vaccinated and we get closer to herd immunity just to keep peace in the family.  :)

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1231 on: April 15, 2021, 09:35:21 pm »

... I don't mind taking off the street someone who is knowingly Covid positive AND coughing deliberately in people's faces.

I don't know about that. Sounds like a slippery slope to start arresting people for acting like assholes. :)

And anyway, why just if they have Covid. Would it be ok to deliberately cough on people if you don't have Covid?
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Alan Klein

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1232 on: April 15, 2021, 09:53:02 pm »

Interesting statistics. 

So far, 5,800 fully vaccinated people have caught Covid anyway in US, CDC says
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/14/health/breakthrough-infections-covid-vaccines-cdc/index.html

99.992% of fully vaccinated people have dodged COVID, CDC data shows
https://arstechnica.com/science/2021/04/99-992-of-fully-vaccinated-people-have-dodged-covid-cdc-data-shows/

armand

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1233 on: April 15, 2021, 11:28:44 pm »

Haven't read what was posted here in months and I don't plan to, just a word of caution.

You can definitely get Covid even if you are vaccinated (likelihood depending on the vaccine), and you can still get pretty sick. The benefit comes more from not dying or ending up in the ICU. I already know of 2 cases in our extended critical care group that got it after being vaccinated, so even if you are less likely to die from it taking precautions still makes sense.

As a side note in SW Michigan I think we have the highest numbers now, or at least tied with the highest that we had.

TechTalk

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1234 on: April 15, 2021, 11:53:29 pm »

What misrepresentation has been made?

The ones that you made yesterday come to mind.

The CDC stopped vaccinations using J&J.

First, CDC does not have that authority, only the FDA does. Second, CDC and FDA issued a joint statement which recommended a pause in the use of J&J vaccine. The FDA did not pull, stop, or prevent the J&J vaccine from continuing to be administered nor withdraw its Emergency Use Authorization. However, the recommendation of a pause from CDC and FDA was enough for states to follow thru and do just that for now.
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Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1235 on: April 16, 2021, 06:05:22 am »

... have been "fully vaccinated" with either the Moderna or Pfizer/BioNTech product (two doses plus a two-week waiting period) won't get infected at all...

How so?

Do those innovative vaccines create an invisible, impenetrable shield around you?

I assume not, so it means that when viruses enter your body (i.e., you get infected), the vaccine (i.e., antibodies it created) acts so swiftly to kill it on the spot?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1236 on: April 16, 2021, 06:28:30 am »

... when the US gets 6 million dead...

But just imagine the benefits! Social Security solvent into eternity and beyond. Retirement homes get cheaper, due to empty beds. Millennials get to spend their inheritance much sooner, creating a boost to the economy. Middle-aged finally could lead a stress-free life, liberated from the dual pressure to raise their kids and care for their parents. Etc., etc.

In the meantime, thanks to Dems (demons?) and Satan:

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1237 on: April 16, 2021, 06:28:55 am »

And one more:

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1238 on: April 16, 2021, 06:38:52 am »

... when the US gets 6 million dead..

More panic-porn.

Your number is vastly exaggerated. Currently, the fatality rate of those tested as infected is about 1%. Actually, much less than 1%, because of those asymptomatic and those infected but who never got tested. So, worst case scenario, without vaccination, it would be less than 3 million. Much less than even 3 mio, as it would continue to spread among younger and healthier population.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: Promising New Coronavirus Vaccine
« Reply #1239 on: April 16, 2021, 06:49:09 am »

The benefits of not being vaccinated:
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