Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa

[LesPalenik]

Maybe no matter what we do, the disease just has to go through its paces.  Hopefully the vaccines are helping us to reach herd immunity or at least reduce the numbers.  That seems to be happening  here in New Jersey and the US where there was half the number of cases than what it was running. 

The virus infections and deaths in USA are now about half or even less than in last month which was the record month after the effect of Thanksgiving and Christmas get-togethers. That was a clear demonstration of the virus spread depending on what people do.

[LesPalenik]

Tequila gave me headaches, like moonshine.

That prescription is for gurgling, not for drinking.

[Alan Klein]

What does that actually mean?

Interestingly, NY Gov Cuomo said a year ago when Covid was first getting started, that 80% of the people will wind up getting it. Then he shut up and never repeated that comment.  I think he made a salient point.  The virus just spreads.  Fast or slow, it's going to go through the community.  Lockdowns just slow it down.  Of course, vaccines being applied are helping with reducing the spread.  So that's an important factor.  As Joe said, people have to get out.  To put food on the table, to go to doctors, to shop for clothes, for their own sanity. It's like arguing that driving kills people.  People are not going to stop driving.  They'll take their chances whether it's to drive to work or to the ski slope or to take pictures.

[LesPalenik]

Quote from: Alan Klein on Today at 09:21:50 am
Maybe no matter what we do, the disease just has to go through its paces.

What does that actually mean?

The more paces people do, especially in company of others, the more chances of virus transmissions.

[Alan Klein]

That prescription is for gurgling, not for drinking.

No wonder I wasn't feeling good.

[Robert Roaldi]

Interesting article about trying to manage public health at FDA during an insane administration, https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/538898-how-scientists-saved-trumps-fda-from-politics.

Your top guys had to spend their days fighting the insane politics instead of doing their jobs. It will be difficult to measure all the harm done to the country by the incompetent bungling fools in the Trump administration, beginning with the top man.

[jeremyrh]

Interestingly, NY Gov Cuomo said a year ago when Covid was first getting started, that 80% of the people will wind up getting it. Then he shut up and never repeated that comment.  I think he made a salient point.  The virus just spreads.  Fast or slow, it's going to go through the community.  Lockdowns just slow it down.  Of course, vaccines being applied are helping with reducing the spread.  So that's an important factor. 

Well it's not "just going through the population" in NZ or Australia. In countries like yours (and mine) that didn't react quick enough to the signals coming a year ago we have to use lockdowns to slow it and buy time because we made bad choices whem alternatives were available.

As Joe said, people have to get out.  To put food on the table, to go to doctors, to shop for clothes, for their own sanity. It's like arguing that driving kills people.  People are not going to stop driving.  They'll take their chances whether it's to drive to work or to the ski slope or to take pictures.

Only in your (and to a lesser extent my) defective society that does not sufficiently support people in times of crisis.

[LesPalenik]

Interestingly, NY Gov Cuomo said a year ago when Covid was first getting started, that 80% of the people will wind up getting it. Then he shut up and never repeated that comment.  I think he made a salient point.  The virus just spreads.  Fast or slow, it's going to go through the community.  Lockdowns just slow it down.  Of course, vaccines being applied are helping with reducing the spread.  So that's an important factor.  As Joe said, people have to get out.  To put food on the table, to go to doctors, to shop for clothes, for their own sanity. It's like arguing that driving kills people.  People are not going to stop driving.  They'll take their chances whether it's to drive to work or to the ski slope or to take pictures.

Cuomo is a smart guy. He knows that New Yorkers won't comply with mask wearing and lockdowns. Contrast that to Bhutan with only one virus death due to quick mask mandate and full lockdown.

Bhutan confirmed its first case of COVID-19 in March — an American tourist. Within 6 hours and 18 minutes, some 300 people had been contract-traced and quarantined, Drexler writes. Communication was clear: Face masks were called for from the start. The country went into full lockdown to suppress the virus whenever it found risk of community transmission, first in August, then in December. It’s reminiscent of how proactive Bhutan has been on climate change.

Bhutan’s king didn’t spend months denying the dangers of the virus or years denying the reality of global heating. Instead, King Jigme Khesar Namgyel Wangchuck said that even one death from COVID-19 was one too many. He was engaged in detailed pandemic plans and visited frontline workers to encourage them. Other leaders stood up, too: The members of Bhutan’s Parliament donated a month’s salary to the response effort. “I don’t think any other country can say that leaders and ordinary people enjoy such mutual trust,” one journalist in Bhutan told the Atlantic.

https://grist.org/climate/how-one-tiny-country-is-beating-the-pandemic-and-climate-change/
 

[digitaldog]

We have also gone over this before, with the many different versions of lockdowns happening, it is an impossible word to clearly define at this point.  It's just like how Justice Potter Stewart spoke of obscenity, "I know it when I see it." 

PS, if you insist on being coy here in accepting this obvious truth, I will simply regard you as being deliberately obtuse.

Thank you for admitting that your writings are impossible to define – explain.
It might be so much more refreshing to hear from your wife and Alan’s wife on such topics here. Common sense isn’t a flower that grows in everyone’s garden. 😂
Edit to fix spelling from Allen to Alan: Alan is very sensitive to ensuring that when folks point out his nonsense, no one is confused who's wrong (again). 

[digitaldog]

Tequila gave me headaches, like moonshine.

Similar to the reaction many of your readers on this form feel.🙀

[Alan Klein]

Interesting article about trying to manage public health at FDA during an insane administration, https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/538898-how-scientists-saved-trumps-fda-from-politics.

Your top guys had to spend their days fighting the insane politics instead of doing their jobs. It will be difficult to measure all the harm done to the country by the incompetent bungling fools in the Trump administration, beginning with the top man.

Meanwhile, Biden is getting the CDC to change their recommendations to fit his relationship with the unions, especially the teachers' unions. How come you're not concerned about that?

[Alan Klein]

Well it's not "just going through the population" in NZ or Australia. In countries like yours (and mine) that didn't react quick enough to the signals coming a year ago we have to use lockdowns to slow it and buy time because we made bad choices whem alternatives were available.

Only in your (and to a lesser extent my) defective society that does not sufficiently support people in times of crisis.

Who goes to NZ?

[Alan Klein]

Cuomo is a smart guy. He knows that New Yorkers won't comply with mask wearing and lockdowns. Contrast that to Bhutan with only one virus death due to quick mask mandate and full lockdown.

https://grist.org/climate/how-one-tiny-country-is-beating-the-pandemic-and-climate-change/
 

Bhutan.  Now there's a place I'd like to retire too. I could become a monk and live in a monastery.  The virus dies from the elevation.

[Alan Klein]

Thank you for admitting that your writings are impossible to define – explain.
It might be so much more refreshing to hear from your wife and Allan’s wife on such topics here. Common sense isn’t a flower that grows in everyone’s garden. 😂

There's only one L in my name, not two.  I thought you'd get it right considering how perfect you are.

[digitaldog]

There's only one L in my name, not two.  I thought you'd get it right considering how perfect you are.

I'll fix it sir. Unlike you:
“When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind. What Do You Do, Sir?” John Maynard Keynes
Answer: what he does is assume, speculate, and post false text.
Thank you for assuming, again, without any facts or knowledge, you falsely believe I'm perfect.

[James Clark]

Only in your (and to a lesser extent my) defective society that does not sufficiently support people in times of crisis.

Well, I mean, people have to *golf.*  What kind of monster are you?

[James Clark]

Meanwhile, Biden is getting the CDC to change their recommendations to fit his relationship with the unions, especially the teachers' unions.

What?  Unless you're saying that Biden is anti-union you're exactly... wrong.  https://www.foxnews.com/us/cdc-guidelines-schools-vaccines

[faberryman]

You see, as someone on the right, I, unlike you, realize that human nature is unchangeable.  You can not manipulate the laws and eventually reach utopia, just like you can not put in place lockdowns and expect people to stay at home and never seek company.  People will seek and enjoy in the company of friends and family regardless of how much you lockdown, and that is the fundamental flaw in the lockdowns.

I think Billy Graham preached about human nature being unchangeable. That's why Mike Pence's wife won't leave him alone in a room with another woman. Maybe it doesn't have to do with human nature so much as Mike Pence is just a sex maniac.

I don't know if human nature is unchangeable or not. Even if it is, some people seem to be able to control their behavior better than others. Could be a parenting issue.

I don't know if you have thought about this, but maybe the public health officials know that they will not get 100% compliance with the lockdown orders and have built that into their models. Maybe they call it the Joe Kitchen factor. Maybe some lesser compliance percentage will be enough to slow the spread of the virus sufficiently that the healthcare systems aren't overwhelmed.

I think you may have been drinking too much coffee. Your recent posts contain a lot of hyperbole and black and white thinking. But maybe you are consciously doing that to make you points clearer.

[Peter McLennan]

Who goes to NZ?

Me.

And Bhutan.

[digitaldog]

And off we go:

On the heels of the Senate's acquittal of Donald Trump, the NAACP, Mississippi Rep. Bennie Thompson and civil rights law firm Cohen Milstein Sellers & Toll filed a lawsuit against the former president, Rudy Giuliani and two white supremacist groups, citing their role in the Jan. 6 insurrection.