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Author Topic: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa  (Read 1292202 times)

digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10600 on: May 26, 2021, 02:24:46 pm »

What's batshit crazy about that?
It's batshit wrong.
Here's what he said that you ignored:
Quote
"We birthed a nation from nothing. I mean, there was nothing here. I mean, yes, we have Native Americans,"  "There isn't much Native American culture in American culture."
What you also missed (again):
Santorum then attempted to defend himself and walked back his statements during an interview on CNN, claiming he "misspoke."

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10601 on: May 26, 2021, 02:28:14 pm »


I have asked several times but have never received an adeqaute answer. Since one of the main reasons for widespread gun carrying is for self-protection, it implies that people seem to be fearful for their safety, or at least that they are open to that marketing strategy. But the US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, which would lead me to think that pretty much all the bad guys would be in jail by now. But they don't seem to be. So what gives? Is the pro-gun lobby fostering false fears or is the US infested with much large numbers of criminals than other countries?

Is this move in Texas a result of higher crime rates there combined with inadequate policing? Come to that, does the widespread belief that you all need to carry guns all the time come from you thinking that your police forces aren't doing their job?

Thousands of armed citizens carrying forearms everywhere they go, is that a good look for a state? Maybe they're trying to decrease immigration, "Don't come here, it's a dangerous place" is the message I'd get. :)

Is there much evidence that citizens are able to thwart crime by carrying guns? Does it work or is it marketing hype?


I don't own a gun so I wouldn't know.  I also live in a state, New Jersey, that doesn't allow open carry.  My wife told me she'd shoot me with it if I bought a gun into the house.  :)

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10602 on: May 26, 2021, 02:39:57 pm »

Yup, and Donald's tax cuts did nothing for the economy either except make the rich more money.

Businesses don't hire more people because they get tax breaks.
Businesses hire more people due to increased demand.
If the average Joe Smith isn't getting a pay raise to drive up demand then the corporate tax break is going straight to the business owner's pocket.

That's what Republicans do, feed their own selfish greed. They don't care about bottom feeders.
When Biden raises corporate taxes, it will drive American business offshore where lower corporate taxes exist.  When Trump lowered taxes, American businesses brought back something like $1.5 trillion dollars they earned overseas to work here in America. A lot of that money was also taxed.  One of the reasons companies manufacture overseas is because of more favorable tax situations.  If Biden raises these taxes again, he's going to push more companies and American jobs overseas again. 

Regarding demand created by printing money and passing it out as stimulus, is false.  If that was true, why not give every American $100,000 each?  That's inflation that just raises prices as we see right now.  Meanwhile, it's the Chinese and other foreign manufacturers that are gaining the printed money because we're not producing.  Production comes first.  A country's wealth is measured not by its consumption but by its production. We have to spend less and invest more.  It's investment that creates new businesses and expands existing businesses. That creates more jobs and wealth for the country. Consumption does the opposite.  It consumes;  uses up.  The very definition of the word.

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10603 on: May 26, 2021, 02:55:30 pm »

It's batshit wrong.
Here's what he said that you ignored:What you also missed (again):
Santorum then attempted to defend himself and walked back his statements during an interview on CNN, claiming he "misspoke."


American culture and laws came from the English, French, and Greco Roman legal systems, as did our religion from Christianity not the pagan religions of native Americans.  Democracy comes from the Greek, demos scratein.   Our written constitution also did not come from native America.  The Indians didn't even write or have books other than for symbols on natural material like stones.   He didn't misspeak.  He spoke what's true but is just trying to protect his high-paying job like most people who don't have the guts to standby their beliefs anymore.  Rather than being fired, if CNN had any guts themselves, they should have debated his points.  They're starting to look like LuLa.  :)

JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10604 on: May 26, 2021, 03:19:04 pm »

American culture and laws came from the English, French, and Greco Roman legal systems, as did our religion from Christianity not the pagan religions of native Americans.  Democracy comes from the Greek, demos scratein.   Our written constitution also did not come from native America.  The Indians didn't even write or have books other than for symbols on natural material like stones.   He didn't misspeak.  He spoke what's true but is just trying to protect his high-paying job like most people who don't have the guts to standby their beliefs anymore.  Rather than being fired, if CNN had any guts themselves, they should have debated his points.  They're starting to look like LuLa.  :)

I think Republicans always start from a losing position on cultural talks such as this.  As far as I am concerned, culture breaks down into two different parts, the superficial and the significant. 

The superficial aspects of culture are the food you eat, art, your dress, how you talk, what you read, etc.  These are all things that could provide meaning to your life, but ultimately do not effect your life in any significant way. 

Then there are the significant aspects of culture, such as the way in which you are governed, your granted rights, the court system that is used, etc.  These all have profound effects on your life, all of which can vary greatly even between neighbors.  There is a drastic difference in Mexican courts and American courts. 

As an example, there is an Italian restaurant near me owned by a Chinese immigrant; he is also the head chef.  He likes Italian food more then Chinese food, so he decide to study Italian cooking and opened an Italian restaurant when he came to America.  I am sure he gets great pleasure from cooking Italian food.  However I would bet him opting to work in another cuisine then his own pails in comparison as to how it effected his life vs. moving from China to the USA with our Anglo-Saxon culture of rights, governance and courts. 

So, of course Santorum said nothing wrong.  It's just people tend to think of the superficial aspects of culture first, of which there is a great deal of Native American influence, and Santorum did not clarify he was talking about governance and rights.  Now how you do this in a sound bite so people know which part of the culture you are talking about is a whole other question, something I do not think is possible. 

It's like trying to state the true purpose of the 2nd amendment, which is giving the states a way to protect themselves from a tyrannical federal government through forming a militia that can only be formed effectively and efficiently by having an already armed citizenry with arms on par with regulars in an army, which is why people need the right to bare arms.  Instead, saying "it's for personal protection" is just so much easier. 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 03:24:16 pm by JoeKitchen »
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10605 on: May 26, 2021, 03:34:09 pm »

American culture and laws came from the English, French, and Greco Roman legal systems, as did our religion from Christianity not the pagan religions of native Americans. 
More idiotic rubbish and a silly defense of what Santorum said, then pulled back on, because even he realized it was batshit crazy and unlike, you, racist.
Our religion? Wrong again; more idiotic rubbish.
You really do live up to the old, white guy, republican that you are.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10606 on: May 26, 2021, 03:43:17 pm »


PS
On top of that, the extra $300 per month in the last Biden passed relief package has already gone out.  It is undeniable that this is keeping people from seeking work.  ...

If a measly $300 per month can stop people from looking for work, those must be some pretty lousy low-paying jobs they'd be otherwise offered. Those are shit hole country wages. ;)
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digitaldog

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10607 on: May 26, 2021, 03:55:23 pm »

if CNN had any guts themselves, they should have debated his points.  They're starting to look like LuLa.  :)
Yeah, like the hypocrite who's so proud of his Ignore List.  ;)

And in terms of Christianity, since you're apparently not yet ignoring an atheist and proud member of Freedom From Religion Foundation (not afraid to burn in hell with Ron Reagan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7INIhD9P0Pw):

https://www.pewforum.org/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/
The religious landscape of the United States continues to change at a rapid clip. In Pew Research Center telephone surveys conducted in 2018 and 2019, 65% of American adults describe themselves as Christians when asked about their religion, down 12 percentage points over the past decade. Meanwhile, the religiously unaffiliated share of the population, consisting of people who describe their religious identity as atheist, agnostic or “nothing in particular,” now stands at 26%, up from 17% in 2009.

And:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decline_of_Christianity_in_the_Western_World
by 2019, the number of Catholics decreased by 2 million people.


Alan Klein on Today at 12:55:30 pm "Our religion from Christianity not the pagan religions of native Americans"; racist dog whistle right out of the Trump playbook. Well done Alan, well done. 
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James Clark

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10608 on: May 26, 2021, 03:57:02 pm »

If a measly $300 per month can stop people from looking for work, those must be some pretty lousy low-paying jobs they'd be otherwise offered. Those are shit hole country wages. ;)

It's actually 300/week, so about 15K per year, and basically replaces an unlivable minimum wage (poverty line in the us is 12 for singles/17k for a couple, give or take).  So yeah, the government is "allowing" people to live in poverty when they could be *working* to live in poverty instead. 
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Peter McLennan

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10609 on: May 26, 2021, 04:21:31 pm »

You really need to learn how markets works,

On top of that, the extra $300 per month in the last Biden passed relief package has already gone out.  It is undeniable that this is keeping people from seeking work.  I hear about it all the time from local business owners.

The plural of anecdote is not fact.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10610 on: May 26, 2021, 04:29:23 pm »

It's actually 300/week, so about 15K per year, ...

Thanks.
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Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10611 on: May 26, 2021, 04:29:41 pm »

The plural of anecdote is not fact.

That's a funny line.
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digitaldog

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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10613 on: May 26, 2021, 05:59:08 pm »

It's actually 300/week, so about 15K per year, and basically replaces an unlivable minimum wage (poverty line in the us is 12 for singles/17k for a couple, give or take).  So yeah, the government is "allowing" people to live in poverty when they could be *working* to live in poverty instead. 
That's just $300 a week from the Feds.  State unemployment insurance is additional.  So a worker could be getting another $300 or more per week.  If that totals $600-700 a week with the Federal allowance, you're talking about real money, enough to not bother working. 

Where I live in the state of New Jersey, state unemployment is 60% up to a maximum of $713 a week.  Add the $300 a week to that. 

Robert Roaldi

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10614 on: May 26, 2021, 06:05:04 pm »

That's just $300 a week from the Feds.  State unemployment insurance is additional.  So a worker could be getting another $300 or more per week.  If that totals $600-700 a week with the Federal allowance, you're talking about real money, enough to not bother working. 

Where I live in the state of New Jersey, state unemployment is 60% up to a maximum of $713 a week.  Add the $300 a week to that.

Is NJ's unemployment insurance time-limited or do you collect it forever? In Canada, used to be that you'd collect for up to a year if you had made the maximum contributions while you had previously worked.

Also, since they call insurance, is it partly funded by employee contribution? Do you know how much is funded from payroll employee deduction, employer deduction and/or general revenues?

Same question about the $300 from the feds? Is it a temporary Covid thing? I didn't read the details.
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Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10615 on: May 26, 2021, 06:13:00 pm »

The plural of anecdote is not fact.
America had 8 million job openings.  Of course, if you've been offered $75,000, the $300 a week wouldn't matter in your decision to go back to work.  But if you're a low income service employee making $300 from the feds and $300 from your state, $600 a week, that's more or equal to what you'd make if you worked.  Why work?

The US Chamber of Commerce states that one in four unemployment recipients takes home more than they would have made if they worked.

U.S. Chamber Calls for Ending $300 Weekly Supplemental Unemployment Benefits to Address Labor Shortages
Friday, May 7, 2021 - 9:45am
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The following statement can be attributed to U.S. Chamber of Commerce Executive Vice President and Chief Policy Officer Neil Bradley.

“The disappointing jobs report makes it clear that paying people not to work is dampening what should be a stronger jobs market. We need a comprehensive approach to dealing with our workforce issues and the very real threat unfilled positions poses to our economic recovery from the pandemic. One step policymakers should take now is ending the $300 weekly supplemental unemployment benefit.  Based on the Chamber’s analysis, the $300 benefit results in approximately one in four recipients taking home more in unemployment than they earned working.”
https://www.uschamber.com/press-release/us-chamber-calls-ending-300-weekly-supplemental-unemployment-benefits-address-labor

Alan Klein

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10616 on: May 26, 2021, 06:26:13 pm »

Is NJ's unemployment insurance time-limited or do you collect it forever? In Canada, used to be that you'd collect for up to a year if you had made the maximum contributions while you had previously worked.

Also, since they call insurance, is it partly funded by employee contribution? Do you know how much is funded from payroll employee deduction, employer deduction and/or general revenues?

Same question about the $300 from the feds? Is it a temporary Covid thing? I didn't read the details.
NJ unemployment insurance ran 39 weeks but was extended for 20 weeks due to Covid.  Independent "gig" workers get 46 weeks.  Here's the report giving all the particulars.  This is from last year when benefits were $600 a week from the feds now reduced to $300, so I don't know what someone gets exactly or if there are updates.
https://www.njherald.com/story/news/2020/07/01/nj-extends-unemployment-insurance-by-20-weeks-for-those-who-exhausted-benefits/113405142/

In NY State where I lived until retirement and worked as an employee and owned a business, unemployment insurance premiums are paid fully by the employer.  If you lay off people, your premiums go up.  I just cheked NYS length of benefits and it's very confusing.  It's either 67 or 93 weeks or who knows?  Here it is:

Weekly Benefits Payments
Though New York State residents may receive standard benefits for a maximum of 52 weeks, Unemployment Insurance recipients may only receive their full benefits payments for 26 weeks, or a period of six months. Three options exist for receiving benefits. Recipients can elect to receive full benefits every week for a period of six months or every other week for a full calendar year. Alternately, recipients can elect to receive half the full benefits payment weekly over the course of an entire year.

Extended Benefits Period
As a result of the financial crisis of the 21st century, the federal government teamed with state governments to offer Americans expressing difficulty finding full-time employment a period of extended benefits. The maximum length of extended benefits in New York State is 67 weeks. Thus residents of New York may receive a total of 93 weeks of benefits. Extended benefits fall into two categories, Emergency Unemployment Compensation (EUC) and Extended Benefits (EB). When you exhaust your standard unemployment benefits, you receive EUC benefits for a maximum of 47 weeks, after which point qualified applicants may continue to receive EB for a maximum of 20 weeks.
https://www.sapling.com/8404734/many-unemployment-do-new-york

JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10617 on: May 26, 2021, 09:03:50 pm »

If a measly $300 per month can stop people from looking for work, those must be some pretty lousy low-paying jobs they'd be otherwise offered. Those are shit hole country wages. ;)

Excuse me, extra $300 per week. 

You can make $100K right now on government assistance, so why work?  Seriously, lets say both you and your wife can get $350 per week on unemployment plus the extra 300.  That's $1300 per week for the household, or $67,600 per year.  Now throw in two kids and you can get a $3000 per kid per year payout, bringing you up to $73,600 in the year.  Last, you have rent assistance and full medical for four people, and you are now around $100K. 

Why work? 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 09:15:00 pm by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10618 on: May 26, 2021, 09:05:40 pm »

The plural of anecdote is not fact.

One should not sacrifices common sense for years long studies that will tell him the same thing. 

There is a body of evidence this is keeping people out of the workforce. 
« Last Edit: May 26, 2021, 09:14:22 pm by JoeKitchen »
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JoeKitchen

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Re: Bear Pit: now the sole domicile of politics at LuLa
« Reply #10619 on: May 26, 2021, 09:12:38 pm »

It's actually 300/week, so about 15K per year, and basically replaces an unlivable minimum wage (poverty line in the us is 12 for singles/17k for a couple, give or take).  So yeah, the government is "allowing" people to live in poverty when they could be *working* to live in poverty instead.

Poor people are poor because of bad decisions.  Yes, there are exceptions, but most of the time it is a factor of bad decisions.  If you are stiil making minimum wage by the time you are 50 with kids, you made some pretty bad decisions, and are continuing to do so.  Giving them money does not help them, but only enables more bad decisions.  I know this; I am related to people who never went out of their way to gain a skill and are not well off because of it. 

I've worked in the restaurant industry for years, and we would go out of our way not hire an addict.  The problem is that most out of work addicts don't come off as being an addict.  They are on time and punctual, get their work done, even after a couple of weeks.  Then, out of nowhere, usually a month in, they are a drunk again.  Why the sudden shift?  Because they now have caught up on their bills and have some extra money. 

A broke addict is sober; a rich addict is drunk. 

Just throwing money at people does not solve the problem, and in many cases makes it worse. 
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