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Author Topic: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political  (Read 514921 times)

James Clark

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2480 on: April 23, 2020, 09:06:00 pm »

Reading the source article, it appears the real problem is not the meds, but rather she talked to Trump.  Thats more like "party above all else" if you ask me.

“At the end of the day, we have political systems,” said Jonathan Kinloch, chairman of the organization. “We have political parties, and political parties exist for a reason."

“They do not belong to themselves,” Kinloch said of endorsed candidates and elected officials. “They belong to the members and precinct delegates of the Democratic Party"


But, on the question of the meds, in an emergency situation where no proven or tested remedy exists, you would prefer that people don't try and perhaps die, rather than trying?  Its a call for the Dr. and patient to make, in my book.  After the fact folks still have the right to talk about their experience, unless that right has been removed, and I somehow missed it.

In reading the original Detroit News article, it certainly does appear that there's some of that at work.  FWIW, I think it's wrong, but in this case I'm comfortable with the idea that they did the right thing for the wrong reasons.

I agree with your second point as well, and though it doesn't come up much, one of the things that I agree with the Trump administration and many of my conservative friends on (along with their criminal justice reform policies - another example of "right thing/wrong reasons" - and the willingness to engage with North Korea) is their "right to try" advocacy, but "between doctor and patient" is a far cry from "between doctor, patient, and a guy who knows little but thinks he knows everything."  Put another way, "right to try" depends on responsible and fact-based understanding of "the medical" (as Trump might say), not the bumbling musings of a guy whose knowledge of anything besides debt-financed development projects seems to be... lacking.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 09:12:21 pm by James Clark »
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2481 on: April 23, 2020, 09:11:42 pm »

In fact the entire Asian region was not hit as bad as the west and this includes India which is just behind China as far as potential customers go. That area might just emerge in much better financial stability than the west.

Maybe we will witness the changing of the guards.
I think China is more advanced.  It may be a cultural thing between those two countries.  Also, the caste system hurts India. A lot of smart Indians leave for the West.  Their loss; our gain. China is a one-party dictatorship.  But it has a very strong entrepreneurial market as well.  Stealing other countries' intellectual property didn't hurt either.  I think Americans have grown sour on China.  Many of us don't trust them, even fear them. The virus didn't help.  We still like cheap products however. The next ten years are going to be interesting.  I think American power will decline and CHinese power will extend.  Europe will be befuddled by the whole thing. The EU will end except possibly for trade agreements. 

Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2482 on: April 23, 2020, 09:15:12 pm »

If you're suggesting there have been no "lockdowns" in Texas, you're wrong.  I live in Austin, and have a metric ton of friends in Houston from when I lived there, and in San Antonio where I went to college, and I promise you, we're not "open for business" despite what our idiot chipmunk of a Lt. Gov. is advocating for.   Our grocery stores are being held up as a model for how to deal with this, and several municipalities are enforcing fairly strict safety measures.

James, how are grocery stores handling this?

James Clark

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2483 on: April 23, 2020, 09:15:56 pm »

I am just pointing that you are insisting that we tar and feather any politician, which is guilty of screwing up, by using information that we found after the fact, aka the hindsight fallacy.  It makes no sense.  Not to mention, if no one ever took chances, like on using a new drug, the world would be in a much worse place.

There's a fundamental difference between "history shows us that quarantine can be effective in stopping the spread of a plague, so let's do that," and "Hey - I heard on Fox & Friends that this doc in France thinks arsenic can cure cancer, so, hey - go ahead and take it - what have you got to lose?  I mean, you're gonna die anyway, so..."
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 09:23:01 pm by James Clark »
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James Clark

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2484 on: April 23, 2020, 09:20:43 pm »

James, how are grocery stores handling this?

I posted a link over in John Camp's "What's shopping like where you live" thread, but basically, they were forward thinking in planning for this way back in January based on their experience with disaster response from Hurricane Harvey several years ago, and they were quick out of the gate with shields at the cash registers, spacing the store by managing traffic flow, limiting access, offering disinfectant wipes for carts, managing employee circumstances etc. right from the start.  As far as I can tell, grocery stores are probably one of the main points of contact/spread, and it wouldn't surprise in the slightest if having solid strategy at that level isn't a big part of our success here so far.   A win for private industry over government for sure ;)

 
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2485 on: April 23, 2020, 09:34:18 pm »

I posted a link over in John Camp's "What's shopping like where you live" thread, but basically, they were forward thinking in planning for this way back in January based on their experience with disaster response from Hurricane Harvey several years ago, and they were quick out of the gate with shields at the cash registers, spacing the store by managing traffic flow, limiting access, offering disinfectant wipes for carts, managing employee circumstances etc. right from the start.  As far as I can tell, grocery stores are probably one of the main points of contact/spread, and it wouldn't surprise in the slightest if having solid strategy at that level isn't a big part of our success here so far.   A win for private industry over government for sure ;)

 
I haven't shopped inside a grocery store or supermarkets in about 5-6 weeks  Not at my age.

Interestingly, the Mayor of Las Vegas wants to leave decisions about opening and protection in gaming hotels to private industry.  She's got a lot of static about her comments.  Her theory I believe is that the hotels would be stupid to not do very effective protection or their customers won't come.  So leave it up to them.  Based on what you said in Texas, she might have an idea.  In any case, if the gamblers and families don;t come back, Nevada will go back to being just a desert.  There's really no other industry there as far as I know.  It will become like Saudi Arabia without the oil.  It's really a shame. My wife and I were there for four days a few months ago.  We were out in the Red Rock area which was beautiful.  The people are very nice, I love the Mexican influence of the whole Southwest, and they have great breakfasts there.  But accept for the strip, not much can go on there.  After all, it's desert. 

Ray

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2486 on: April 23, 2020, 10:28:40 pm »

How is Australia going to respond to Chinese expansionism?  You depend a lot on exporting your energy to them.  Are you going to look the other way?  Especially if America decides to withdraw because it can't afford to patrol the world any longer?  We should have let China sleep.  Then again we dealt with the Soviet Union.  But those were very tense times.

It's true the Australian economy is very dependent on China, but China is also dependent on Australia, at least to some extent.

The following article addresses these problems, although the article appeared in November 2019 before the Covid pandemic became an issue.
https://www.eastasiaforum.org/2019/11/14/is-australia-too-dumb-and-too-china-dependent/

"Australia is the most China-reliant economy in the developed world, with about a third of its exports going there. Chinese nationals making up roughly 38% of its foreign students and 15% of its tourists.

High iron ore, coal and natural gas prices are key to the terms of trade — the economy’s income — and this filters through taxes to government coffers, underpins Australia’s AAA credit rating, and makes its way to households in the form of welfare payments, tax cuts or health and education spending. In other words, a threat to commodities revenue is a threat to Australia’s financial muscle.

Australia is dependent on China, but China is also dependent on Australia. Australia supplies 61 per cent of China’s iron ore, 53 per cent of its coal and 23 per cent of its thermal coal. Australia’s shares in each are increasing."

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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2487 on: April 23, 2020, 10:32:02 pm »

Due to Australia's dependence on China economically, do you see Australia abandoning it's relationship with America?

Ray

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2488 on: April 24, 2020, 12:30:08 am »

Due to Australia's dependence on China economically, do you see Australia abandoning it's relationship with America?

Beyond my powers of prediction.  ;)
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Alan Klein

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2489 on: April 24, 2020, 12:38:59 am »

Beyond my powers of prediction.  ;)
Good answer. Let's hope it never comes to that.  ;)

Manoli

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2490 on: April 24, 2020, 02:37:06 am »

Not to mention, if no one ever took chances, like on using a new drug, the world would be in a much worse place. 

Well, Trumpy took you at your word, Joe.

Quote
Donald Trump has stunned viewers by suggesting that people could receive injections of disinfectant to cure the coronavirus, a notion one medical expert described as “jaw-dropping”.

At Thursday’s White House coronavirus task force briefing, the US president discussed new government research on how the virus reacts to different temperatures, climates and surfaces.

“And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute,” Trump said. “One minute! And is there a way we can do something, by an injection inside or almost a cleaning? Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that. So, that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me.”

Dr Deborah Birx, the task force response coordinator, remained silent. But social media erupted in hilarity and outrage at the president, who has a record of defying science and also floated the idea of treating patients’ bodies with ultraviolet (UV) light.

Several doctors warned the public against injecting disinfectant or using UV light.

Robert Reich, a professor of public policy at the University of California at Berkeley and a former labor secretary, tweeted: “Trump’s briefings are actively endangering the public’s health. Boycott the propaganda. Listen to the experts. And please don’t drink disinfectant.”

Walter Shaub, the former director of the Office of Government Ethics, added: “It is incomprehensible to me that a moron like this holds the highest office in the land and that there exist people stupid enough to think this is OK. I can’t believe that in 2020 I have to caution anyone listening to the president that injecting disinfectant could kill you.”

[...]


Medical experts denounce Trump's latest 'dangerous' suggestion to treat Covid-19
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 06:18:50 am by Manoli »
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BobShaw

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2491 on: April 24, 2020, 03:22:19 am »

Due to Australia's dependence on China economically, do you see Australia abandoning it's relationship with America?
In a word, no, not abandoning. The US is still a major trading partner after China, Japan and about the same as South Korea. The UK will probably increase significantly too.
Military wise I don't think much will change. There is a strong push not to get drawn into more wars I think.
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KLaban

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2492 on: April 24, 2020, 03:49:41 am »

Well, Trumpy took you st your word, Joe.

Medical experts denounce Trump's latest 'dangerous' suggestion to treat Covid-19

 ;D ;D ;D

Thanks for that. Suitable material for the PLAYPEN that is Donald Trump.

Chairman Bill

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2493 on: April 24, 2020, 03:59:35 am »

Note to Trump-supporters - please don't inject disinfectant. The Darwin Awards committee are going to have a hard enough job as it is this year

KLaban

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2494 on: April 24, 2020, 05:08:06 am »

Perhaps Trump will put himself forward as a volunteer for the clinical trials?

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2495 on: April 24, 2020, 05:22:05 am »

Government sadism defeated  ;D

California officials fill skate park with 37 tons of sand, plan backfires as dirt bikers show up

https://disrn.com/news/california-skate-park-filled-with-sand-backfires-as-dirt-bikers-show-up?fbclid=IwAR1V6NPcSf_PWkSylPaYs7WJYkdwy3k5edWfGl2yU1h7-onw8WtSF8bQvFQ

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2496 on: April 24, 2020, 05:33:22 am »

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2497 on: April 24, 2020, 05:35:02 am »

Grammar Nazis and the Chinese virus:

Chairman Bill

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2498 on: April 24, 2020, 06:01:05 am »

It is known as brainstorming.

No, it's known as idiocy. Your president isn't just embarrassing, he's dangerous.

Slobodan Blagojevic

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Re: PLAYPEN: Covid-19 Everything Political
« Reply #2499 on: April 24, 2020, 06:11:29 am »

No, it's known as idiocy. Your president isn't just embarrassing, he's dangerous.

Be afraid, be very afraid ;)
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